7 Secrets of the Eucharist

[Vico]

Ok, so then when my priest said the Father and HS accompany Christ in the Eucharist in a spiritual way, what does that mean? And is he right about that?

I can’t give yes or no about the first question. As in the answer posted before from the Catholic Bishops:

• By eating the Body and drinking the Blood of Christ in the Eucharist we become united to the person of Christ through his humanity.
• In being united to the humanity of Christ we are at the same time united to his divinity.

For the second question, I think yes, in a spiritual manner means by presence of divinity experienced in the reception of an increase of sanctifying grace and the reception of a distinctive sacramental grace, and by remaining in that state, actual grace comes to us when we need it.

 

[Faith1960]

Who is this book by? I listened to an audio by John Martignoni on this, and he seemed to stress that all were in the Eucharist if I remember correctly.

Dividing out the three persons starts to flirt with old heresy to me. And over-defining the Eucharist often hurts more than helps, IMHO.

It’s written by Vinny Flynn, and the introduction is by Fr. Mitch Pacwa, S. J.

 

[reggieM]

So, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit must all be present if the Son is present; but the Father does not have a body… etc.

However, Christ is substantially present in the Eucharist, body, blood, soul and divinity.

I thought this was a good explanation. The Father and Holy Spirit don’t have a body, so to speak. So, we receive the Body and Blood of Jesus. But these are hypostatically united to the Father and the Son.
So, we receive the fullness of the Trinity - along with the Body and Blood of the Lord.

I just find that a strange thing to say and unnecessary to say it that way.
We receive God in His Fullness. Not part of God.
Saying that the Father and Holy Spirit “accompany Jesus” actually is heretical if you want to get technical about it. Saying the Father and HS are “only present spiritually” is bad terminology since it diminishes What and Who they both are and what the Eucharist is.

But perhaps there was or is a good reason they had to phrase it like that.

 

[Faith1960]

Old Jan 28, '13, 2:16 pm
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Default Re: Trinity within the Eucharist?
Here is an answer from a CAF Apologist. The Trinity has a “spiritual presence” not a “real presence”. Christ is the only one with a “real presence”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. Vincent Serpa
As for identifying the Trinity with the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, we must recognize that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus only. The Father and the Holy Spirit are spirits and do not have bodies. They did not become incarnate. While the whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons, the Catechism tells us: “each divine person performs the common work according to his unique personal property.” (#258) So while Jesus is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit and co-equal with them, we only speak of the Eucharist, and therefore the Real Presence, in terms of HIS body. The indwelling presence of the whole Trinity is a spiritual presence and not an incarnate one.
Source: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=601723

[emphasis mine]

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Fr. Serpa said pretty much the same thing my priest said.

 

[reggieM]

As for identifying the Trinity with the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, we must recognize that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus only.

??? Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. Only Jesus? The Blessed Trinity is not present?

So while Jesus is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit and co-equal with them, we only speak of the Eucharist, and therefore the Real Presence, in terms of HIS body.

The Hypostatic Union is the union of Divine and Human natures in Jesus. And Jesus also had a human body.
So, there’s no Divinity actually present in the Eucharist. Just Jesus’ human body. Ok, I didn’t realize that all this time. I’ve been an idolater - kneeling before a human being. Kind of weird I didn’t know that before now.
Oh wait - His Divinity is there? But it’s only “part of the Divinity”. But God cannot be divided into parts. God is a wholeness and unity.

The indwelling presence of the whole Trinity is a spiritual presence and not an incarnate one.

Wow that’s good. The Holy Trinity **Is **actually present in the Eucharist. I almost lost my faith there for a minute. We just talked in circles and said absolutely nothing. Theologians must get paid by the word.

Fr. Serpa said pretty much the same thing my priest said.

I want whatever they’ve been drinking.

 

[reggieM]

Oops - post I quoted from is gone now. Delete my reply?

 

[Faith1960]

Oops - post I quoted from is gone now. Delete my reply?

I accidentally deleted Fr. Serpas post and yours. Now I got his back.

 

[Wesrock]

This explanation could probably use some work, but the eucharistic bread is consecrated to become Jesus’ body. However, since Jesus’ person is indivisible, his blood, soul, and divinity are also made present under the appearance of bread. Likewise, the wine is consecrated to become his blood, but as Jesus is indivisible, his body, soul and divinity become present there as well.

I imagine the explanation you heard has similar logic (if not exactly the same). It is Jesus specifically who is being made present in his fullness in the Eucharist, and in addition to his human body, blood, and soul, there is also the divinity. But the Son is not divisible from Father or Holy Spirit, so the entire Trinity becomes present in the Eucharist by its association with Jesus who is made present.

So the Trinity is present, the Son primarily and the Father and Ghost therefore by their indivisible association with the Son.

But to keep it very plain, the Trinity is present. How Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are present, if you really wish to dig into it, might require a more complicated explanation, but all three are there.

 

[Faith1960]

Sep 25, '11, 5:31 am
yannick
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Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 24
Religion: Catholic
How do we distinguish the Real Presence from the indwelling of the Trinity?
I know (at least I think I do) that uncreated grace is the indwelling of the Holy Trinity, I know as well that the Blessed sacrament is the Real Presence of Jesus (and as being ad extra it is I think therefore the Real Presence of the Trinity) in what way these 2 presences differ? if we do not adore the indwelling of the trinity in the soul can we say that it IS God present in is essence in the soul?
#2
Sep 26, '11, 10:56 am
Fr. Vincent Serpa
Catholic Answers Apologist

Join Date: May 4, 2004
Posts: 4,937

Dear friend,

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines grace in this way: “Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.” (#1996) It is always best for us to use the terms the Church uses in the way the Church uses them. Strictly speaking, the Church would say that grace is the EFFECT of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and not the indwelling itself.

As for identifying the Trinity with the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, we must recognize that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus only. The Father and the Holy Spirit are spirits and do not have bodies. They did not become incarnate. While the whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons, the Catechism tells us: “each divine person performs the common work according to his unique personal property.” (#258) So while Jesus is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit and co-equal with them, we only speak of the Eucharist, and therefore the Real Presence, in terms of HIS body. The indwelling presence of the whole Trinity is a spiritual presence and not an incarnate one.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.

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Recent apologetics answers by Fr. Vincent Serpa
Last edited by Fr. Vincent Serpa; Sep 26, '11 at 11:45 am.

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How do we distinguish the Real Presence from the indwelling of the Trinity?

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[reggieM]

So the Trinity is present, the Son primarily and the Father and Ghost therefore by their indivisible association with the Son.

But to keep it very plain, the Trinity is present. How Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are present, if you really wish to dig into it, might require a more complicated explanation, but all three are there.

I prefer this sort of explanation over the others. It’s simple, to the point and all that is needed, as I see it.