73 Book Bible...How Important?

[PJM]

This particular quote really resonated with me and what drives me as a Catholic. When I nearly left the Catholic faith and began a search for what church I should belong to (including even starting my own church) the verse that stuck out for me was Mt 16:18…and not the Peter part, but the part where Jesus said that He would build His Church and the gates of hell would not prevail over it. That’s the Church I wanted to belong to!!

In the process of trying to find “that Church” I needed a criteria to make my decision. How could I compare existing beliefs and KNOW what was the real truth…and not someone’s version of the truth? Once I did the research and found that there was only one single universal church in the first 800 years of the Church everything changed for me. I now had an objective, rather than subjective, way of determining “that Church”.

Because I trust Jesus and the notion of an unchanging Godly Truth that single universal church HAD to be protected to teach truth as Jesus’ Church. So whatever that Church believed the Church of today must have those same beliefs. That’s how I became a devout Catholic because only the Catholic Church met this criteria. And that Church has believed in a 73 book Bible. For me, it’s as simple as that.

I veered some off the topic of the thread, but I couldn’t help myself!! Haha!

-Ernie-

THANKS Ernie!

Some many years ago I was impacted by John 17:17-20, the same way you were by Mt 16:18

John.17 Verses 17 to 20
[17] Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
[18] As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
[20] "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word

When I realized that no other church or faith could make this claim and support it; I had a real WOW! moment.

God Bless you, thanks for sharing!

Patrick

 

[Ernie07]

THANKS Ernie!

Some many years ago I was impacted by John 17:17-20, the same way you were by Mt 16:18

John.17 Verses 17 to 20
[17] Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
[18] As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
[20] "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word

When I realized that no other church or faith could make this claim and support it; I had a real WOW! moment.

God Bless you, thanks for sharing!

Patrick

Good stuff, Patrick! I love hearing about those “wow” moments for people as it seems like the Holy Spirit moves us in ways that are particularly fruitful for each of us as individuals.

Excuse my denseness though, but what about John 17:17-20 gave you your “wow” moment? And I’m not asking you to justify that verse at all, but to just explain how that verse is distinctly Catholic. And not that the verse has to be distinctly Catholic because if it moved you that’s all that matters. I guess I’m babbling just to make sure you don’t take my question the wrong way!!

Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[Karen107]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to start this thread for two reasons: 1) I believe the answer to my question is “vitally important” and I’d like to share why, 2) It seems like Catholics don’t seem to think what Bible is used (66 or 73 book) is a big deal and I want to know why.​

Ernie, perhaps its that Catholics don’t really read the bible on their own as much as they should but rather listen to it at Mass where it’s read not necessarily in order but rather relates to the liturgical season we are in so they don’t see the relevance of those scriptures (or really don’t dispute). They hear but are they understanding? I will use my favorite word even if I can’t spell it well… Ephphatha!!

Regardless, Gods Word changes our hearts even as one may not understand it in it’s entirety or have taken the time to read and study it for themselves by taking a bible study class or something similar. I give them credit because they might someday understand what you have understanding on if they are Catholics who attend Mass. Remember once upon a time there were not enough bibles to go around so people had to rely on the Reading of the Word at Mass…? You might start with encouraging Catholics to pick up the bible themselves and read it in it’s entirety or take a bible study class to help them understand it and the relevance to the missing scriptures in the Protestant bibles. Than they will understand the big deal because those scriptures have a great impact on what we believe as a whole about purgatory and the other doctrinal beliefs we have as Catholics. First though is to help them understand that spiritual growth is important to a Catholic lest we be ‘dry bones’ and learning more about the bible helps us grow in our faith.

 

[PJM]

Good stuff, Patrick! I love hearing about those “wow” moments for people as it seems like the Holy Spirit moves us in ways that are particularly fruitful for each of us as individuals.

Excuse my denseness though, but what about John 17:17-20 gave you your “wow” moment? And I’m not asking you to justify that verse at all, but to just explain how that verse is distinctly Catholic. And not that the verse has to be distinctly Catholic because if it moved you that’s all that matters. I guess I’m babbling just to make sure you don’t take my question the wrong way!!

Thanks.

-Ernie-

John.17 Verses 17 to 20
[17] Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
[18] As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
[20] "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word

And I’m not asking you to justify that verse at all, but to just explain how that verse is distinctly Catholic.

Thanks for asking Ernie

My reply was not in tended as a advertisement for Catholicism BUT Divine Providence appears to have intervened here.

It seems quote logical that as TRUTH as Pope Benedict XVI taught can be nothing other than singular per defined issue: “THERE CANNOT BE YOUR TRUTH AND MY TRUTH OR THERE WOULD BE NO TRUTH”; That there logically has to be reasons or at least one REASON for the multiplicity of faiths in in the Protestant realm of “churches”:

**WHY do I say this? **

Because all “churches” are identified by their freely chosen Set [SINGULAR] of “faith -beliefs.” Indeed is the SET of faith beliefs that give identity to that [ANY] church.

As evidenced by the bible which teaches only:

One True God [Triune]

One Set of faith beliefs [Even GOD can hold only ONE set of beliefs]

One True Church as evidenced by Eph. 2: 19-20 & 4: 1-7 as examples of this reality [TRUTH]

So If, the RCC is NOT [It is] God’s One True Church provable historically and biblically; them which of the multitude of competing churches [Faiths] Is and on WHAT basis?

One of the ROOT causes for the large number of other Christian faiths & churches stems from missing, overlooking, or simply not understanding the critical significance of SINGULAR tense words, chosen by the Catholic Authors of the NT, GUIDED to do so by the HS. Mt 16:15-19; John 17:17-20 & Mt 28: 19-20 are just a few of the KEY examples of this actuality.

So lets reply to your great question with this example explained

John.17 Verses 17 to 20
[17] Sanctify THEM in the truth; thy word is truth.
[18] As thou didst send ME into the world, so I HAVE SENT THEM into the world.
[19] **And forTHEIR SAKE I consecrate MYSELF that SO THEY also may be consecrated in truth. **
[20] "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me THROUGH THEIR word

The Bible Ernie is a Catholic Book

Catholics choose the OT text to be included, and it was Catholics who authored the entire NT.

When the NT was authored [completed by the end of the 1st or VERY early 2nd Century; today;s RCC was the ONLY “Christian” Church in existence. HENCE the bibles NT was authored By Catholics, and directly and exclusively FOR and TO Catholics. The NT authors had no thoughts of future competing faiths identified as “Christians.”

So verse [19] is TRULY a WOW! Because Jesus [GOD] Personally, directly and exclusively freely gives HIMSELF as the Personal warranty of the Teaching on FAITH & or MORALS as being JESUS APPROVED! Only for His RCC! {The GREAT Eastern Schism was some 900 years in the future at this point]

This Ernie is the foundation for the Catholic Dogma of Infallibility

So when I was able to GRASP the reality of this; well, WOW seems inadequate

APPLY singular tense to the following passages as evidence of what I have just shared. EACH of these is direct, precise, and exclusively by and for Catholics

www.http://drbo.org/ [for easy look up]

Mt 10:1-8
Mt 16:15-19
John 17:17-20
Mt 28:18-20
Eph 2: 18-19
Eph 4:1-7
John 6:47-58
1St Cor. 11: 23-30

**AND CHECK THESE OUT

Eph 1:13
IThess 4:8
Eph 3:5
Mt 12:28
Jn. 14:26
Jn 15: 16**

God Bless you Ernie my friend!

Patrick.

 

[PJM]

Ernie, perhaps its that Catholics don’t really read the bible on their own as much as they should but rather listen to it at Mass where it’s read not necessarily in order but rather relates to the liturgical season we are in so they don’t see the relevance of those scriptures (or really don’t dispute). They hear but are they understanding? I will use my favorite word even if I can’t spell it well… Ephphatha!!

Regardless, Gods Word changes our hearts even as one may not understand it in it’s entirety or have taken the time to read and study it for themselves by taking a bible study class or something similar. I give them credit because they might someday understand what you have understanding on if they are Catholics who attend Mass. Remember once upon a time there were not enough bibles to go around so people had to rely on the Reading of the Word at Mass…? You might start with encouraging Catholics to pick up the bible themselves and read it in it’s entirety or take a bible study class to help them understand it and the relevance to the missing scriptures in the Protestant bibles. Than they will understand the big deal because those scriptures have a great impact on what we believe as a whole about purgatory and the other doctrinal beliefs we have as Catholics. First though is to help them understand that spiritual growth is important to a Catholic lest we be ‘dry bones’ and learning more about the bible helps us grow in our faith.

MY dear friend in Christ:thumbsup:

PLEASE READ carefully POST #70 *

That is an old, and no longer reality. Every Parish I know has at least one or more Bible study classes

Futher, for those Catholics like myself who attend DAILY Mass the Bible in its entirey is READ & EXPLAINED to us over a 3 year cycle:thumbsup:

This FORUM over the years has demonstrated MANY times that at least SOME Catholics are Bible savey .

GBY

Patrick*

 

[Roseeurekacross]

PJM you stated

“This is but one of the misunderstood passages that Jesus TRIES to share”

Then when I asked how You stated

“NOT commonly by fellow Catholics”

Then when I asked you to explain why you believe this , you gave a bunch of non related copy and paste that did not answer a simple question.

PJM In simple words that are your own , why do you believe

" This is but one of the misunderstood passages that Jesus TRIES to share"
“NOT commonly by fellow Catholics”

About this bible passage

"Man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord.”

It seems a very clear passage to understand and one easily understood by Catholics.

And why do you think Jesus 'TRIES TO SHARE"

 

[Karen107]

MY dear friend in Christ:thumbsup:

PLEASE READ carefully POST #70 *

That is an old, and no longer reality. Every Parish I know has at least one or more Bible study classes

Futher, for those Catholics like myself who attend DAILY Mass the Bible in its entirey is READ & EXPLAINED to us over a 3 year cycle:thumbsup:

This FORUM over the years has demonstrated MANY times that at least SOME Catholics are Bible savey .

GBY

Patrick*

Hi Patrick, Actually I was speaking to Ernies original post to which he doesn’t specify Catholics on this forum, or Catholics who take bible study classes, or Catholics who attend daily Mass. He refers to Catholics and wonders why they don’t see the importance of the missing books of the bible. Although most Catholics I know buy Catholic bibles. You like him also did the same thing and grouped all Catholics. I was speaking to the Catholics who aren’t as biblically savvy like you or Ernie. It doesn’t mean they don’t understand the importance of these missing books but maybe they just haven’t taken the time to really think about it like we do or really care as deeply as Ernie does. Now if there was some other topic where this was hashed out than that’s a different story altogether… GBY

 

[Karen107]

You want to know what I think? If someone quotes a scripture to me out of a Protestant bible I still believe it’s Gods Word. In fact oftentimes it’s a Protestant Bible that helps bring people to Jesus. Amen to that!

 

[PJM]

PJM you stated

“This is but one of the misunderstood passages that Jesus TRIES to share”

Then when I asked how You stated

“NOT commonly by fellow Catholics”

Then when I asked you to explain why you believe this , you gave a bunch of non related copy and paste that did not answer a simple question.

PJM In simple words that are your own , why do you believe

" This is but one of the misunderstood passages that Jesus TRIES to share"
“NOT commonly by fellow Catholics”

About this bible passage

"Man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord.”

It seems a very clear passage to understand and one easily understood by Catholics.

And why do you think Jesus 'TRIES TO SHARE"

OK

Because despite its preciseness and clarity, there exist today thousands of undesired, not needed other Christian Faiths; each of which compete with GODS One true Church and each other. This idea that all faiths are somehow “equal” is illogical silliness. Such is an impossibility, as is that idea that GOD can accept more than one set of defined faith beliefs. Even GOD cannot do this.

As to “not commonly by fellow Catholics”

The numbers of Catholics by PERCENTAGE who are able to explain and defend our beliefs, is small compared to those who are able to do so. There is GREAT risk even for Catholics to selectively cull a single passage and try to build a new faith around it.

I hope this answers your question?

GBY

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Hi Patrick, Actually I was speaking to Ernies original post to which he doesn’t specify Catholics on this forum, or Catholics who take bible study classes, or Catholics who attend daily Mass. He refers to Catholics and wonders why they don’t see the importance of the missing books of the bible. Although most Catholics I know buy Catholic bibles. You like him also did the same thing and grouped all Catholics. I was speaking to the Catholics who aren’t as biblically savvy like you or Ernie. It doesn’t mean they don’t understand the importance of these missing books but maybe they just haven’t taken the time to really think about it like we do or really care as deeply as Ernie does. Now if there was some other topic where this was hashed out than that’s a different story altogether… GBY

THANKS:thumbsup:

For the correction and clarification Karen!

GBY

Patrick

 

[AmbroseSJ]

PJM:

Because despite its preciseness and clarity, there exist today thousands of undesired, not needed other Christian Faiths; each of which compete with GODS One true Church and each other. This idea that all faiths are somehow “equal” is illogical silliness.

Hence the proliferation of “non-denominational” churches! The very scandal and silliness of so many denominations results in an explosion of yet more “non-denominational” evangelical churches, which basically consist of Me AND Jesus. The brick and mortar churches are then just ‘trappings’ of my own spirituality, and one moves from church to church as one’s spirituality changes etc.

Not justfiying it, just commenting…

 

[Ernie07]

Ernie, perhaps its that Catholics don’t really read the bible on their own as much as they should but rather listen to it at Mass where it’s read not necessarily in order but rather relates to the liturgical season we are in so they don’t see the relevance of those scriptures (or really don’t dispute). They hear but are they understanding? I will use my favorite word even if I can’t spell it well… Ephphatha!!

Regardless, Gods Word changes our hearts even as one may not understand it in it’s entirety or have taken the time to read and study it for themselves by taking a bible study class or something similar. I give them credit because they might someday understand what you have understanding on if they are Catholics who attend Mass. Remember once upon a time there were not enough bibles to go around so people had to rely on the Reading of the Word at Mass…? You might start with encouraging Catholics to pick up the bible themselves and read it in it’s entirety or take a bible study class to help them understand it and the relevance to the missing scriptures in the Protestant bibles. Than they will understand the big deal because those scriptures have a great impact on what we believe as a whole about purgatory and the other doctrinal beliefs we have as Catholics. First though is to help them understand that spiritual growth is important to a Catholic lest we be ‘dry bones’ and learning more about the bible helps us grow in our faith.

Hi Karen,

Thanks for your response. My initial post was from an apologetics standpoint and not necessarily for the general layperson and I should have inserted the word “some” before Catholics. I just think when Catholic apologists or leaders of the Church don’t make a big deal out of the true 73 book Bible it waters down our message as we defend the Catholic faith.

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

John.17 Verses 17 to 20
[17] Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
[18] As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
[20] "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word

Thanks for asking Ernie

My reply was not in tended as a advertisement for Catholicism BUT Divine Providence appears to have intervened here.

It seems quote logical that as TRUTH as Pope Benedict XVI taught can be nothing other than singular per defined issue: “THERE CANNOT BE YOUR TRUTH AND MY TRUTH OR THERE WOULD BE NO TRUTH”; That there logically has to be reasons or at least one REASON for the multiplicity of faiths in in the Protestant realm of “churches”:

**WHY do I say this? **

Because all “churches” are identified by their freely chosen Set [SINGULAR] of “faith -beliefs.” Indeed is the SET of faith beliefs that give identity to that [ANY] church.

As evidenced by the bible which teaches only:

One True God [Triune]

One Set of faith beliefs [Even GOD can hold only ONE set of beliefs]

One True Church as evidenced by Eph. 2: 19-20 & 4: 1-7 as examples of this reality [TRUTH]

So If, the RCC is NOT [It is] God’s One True Church provable historically and biblically; them which of the multitude of competing churches [Faiths] Is and on WHAT basis?

One of the ROOT causes for the large number of other Christian faiths & churches stems from missing, overlooking, or simply not understanding the critical significance of SINGULAR tense words, chosen by the Catholic Authors of the NT, GUIDED to do so by the HS. Mt 16:15-19; John 17:17-20 & Mt 28: 19-20 are just a few of the KEY examples of this actuality.

So lets reply to your great question with this example explained

John.17 Verses 17 to 20
[17] Sanctify THEM in the truth; thy word is truth.
[18] As thou didst send ME into the world, so I HAVE SENT THEM into the world.
[19] **And forTHEIR SAKE I consecrate MYSELF that SO THEY also may be consecrated in truth. **
[20] "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me THROUGH THEIR word

The Bible Ernie is a Catholic Book

Catholics choose the OT text to be included, and it was Catholics who authored the entire NT.

When the NT was authored [completed by the end of the 1st or VERY early 2nd Century; today;s RCC was the ONLY “Christian” Church in existence. HENCE the bibles NT was authored By Catholics, and directly and exclusively FOR and TO Catholics. The NT authors had no thoughts of future competing faiths identified as "Christians."

So verse [19] is TRULY a WOW! Because Jesus [GOD] Personally, directly and exclusively freely gives HIMSELF as the Personal warranty of the Teaching on FAITH & or MORALS as being JESUS APPROVED! Only for His RCC! {The GREAT Eastern Schism was some 900 years in the future at this point]

This Ernie is the foundation for the Catholic Dogma of Infallibility**

So when I was able to GRASP the reality of this; well, WOW seems inadequate

APPLY singular tense to the following passages as evidence of what I have just shared. EACH of these is direct, precise, and exclusively by and for Catholics

www.http://drbo.org/ [for easy look up]

Mt 10:1-8
Mt 16:15-19
John 17:17-20
Mt 28:18-20
Eph 2: 18-19
Eph 4:1-7
John 6:47-58
1St Cor. 11: 23-30

**AND CHECK THESE OUT

Eph 1:13
IThess 4:8
Eph 3:5**
Mt 12:28
Jn. 14:26
Jn 15: 16

God Bless you Ernie my friend!

Patrick.

Great explanation, Patrick! You are coming at it from the assumption that there was just one Christian Church in existence in the first 2 centuries so from that context I get exactly where you’re coming from and totally agree! Thank you again for sharing your thoughts.

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

You want to know what I think? If someone quotes a scripture to me out of a Protestant bible I still believe it’s Gods Word. In fact oftentimes it’s a Protestant Bible that helps bring people to Jesus. Amen to that!

I get what you’re saying about God’s Word, but then I could just as easily copy and paste the Gospel of John onto sheets of paper and distribute those and that would also be God’s Word. But, the point of this thread was to point out the difference in what constitutes the COMPLETE and thus true Bible (Word of God).

If some will find Jesus through the use of a Protestant Bible then that’s great. I’m just saying that we as Catholics know better and for us to not preach the full truth is not doing justice to the Church Jesus established. Throughout this thread I’ve been saying that we are called to preach the full 100% truth and even 99.5% is not good enough. It’s a slippery slope where 99.5% can become 99% and then 95% and so on…justified by evangelization, ecumenical, unity, or a variety of other reasons.

Basically, I’m just saying that we as Catholics need to be steadfast in preaching the full truth according to the teachings of the Church Jesus established.

Thanks again.

-Ernie-

 

[PJM]

Great explanation, Patrick! You are coming at it from the assumption that there was just one Christian Church in existence in the first 2 centuries so from that context I get exactly where you’re coming from and totally agree! Thank you again for sharing your thoughts.

-Ernie-

Thnak you my friend

But my position is not merely an assumption.

TRUTH can be nothing other than singular per defined issue.

What I shared is provable by the bible and secular history as well. What parts do you not agree with?

God Bless you Ernie

Patrick

 

[Roseeurekacross]

OK

Because despite its preciseness and clarity, there exist today thousands of undesired, not needed other Christian Faiths; each of which compete with GODS One true Church and each other. This idea that all faiths are somehow “equal” is illogical silliness. Such is an impossibility, as is that idea that GOD can accept more than one set of defined faith beliefs. Even GOD cannot do this.

As to “not commonly by fellow Catholics”

The numbers of Catholics by PERCENTAGE who are able to explain and defend our beliefs, is small compared to those who are able to do so. There is GREAT risk even for Catholics to selectively cull a single passage and try to build a new faith around it.

I hope this answers your question?

GBY

Patrick

No, its totally off topic in respect to the bible passage I responded to the OP with, and your subsequent claims

“This is but one of the misunderstood passages that Jesus TRIES to share”

“NOT commonly by fellow Catholics"With respect,”

The op asked how important are 73 books compared with 66. Then stated that Catholics dont seem to understand/think about, or make a big deal of the extra, or not, books.

Now my answer, rather then throwing out long winded cut n paste catechism, discussing generalisations on what Catholics believe, etc

Was to simply state what Jesus himself stated, quoting the Old Testament.

In Jesus words :
" man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God"

there is absolutely nothing about other religions, their equality, the number of Catholics able to defend their beliefs. There is nothing about culling single passages and building new faith around it.

This is a simply understood passage regardless who you are or your beliefs.

Btw this doesnt make sense and where is your evidence for the alleged %
“The numbers of Catholics by PERCENTAGE who are able to explain and defend our beliefs, is small compared to those who are able to do” so.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Roseeurekacross:

Btw this doesnt make sense and where is your evidence for the alleged %
“The numbers of Catholics by PERCENTAGE who are able to explain and defend our beliefs, is small compared to those who are able to do” so.

That’s a truism. So much so, that I doubt anyone would bother doing a scientific survey. Why would you even question it? Are you surrounded with amazing Catholic Apologists where you are? If so consider yourself in a very unusual place!

 

[Ernie07]

Thnak you my friend

But my position is not merely an assumption.

TRUTH can be nothing other than singular per defined issue.

What I shared is provable by the bible and secular history as well. What part[s[ do you not agree with?

God Bless you Ernie

Patrick

Bad choice of words on my part, Patrick. I’ve said it on multiple threads we’ve been on that the fact there was just a single Christian Church in the first 800+ years of the Church was/is a key for me being a devout Catholic. We are in 100% agreement on that!!

-Ernie-
[/quote]

 

[PJM]

No, its totally off topic in respect to the bible passage I responded to the OP with, and your subsequent claims

“This is but one of the misunderstood passages that Jesus TRIES to share”

“NOT commonly by fellow Catholics"With respect,”

The op asked how important are 73 books compared with 66. Then stated that Catholics dont seem to understand/think about, or make a big deal of the extra, or not, books.

OK

The SECOND book of Maccabees Chapter 12: 38-46 is the clearest EVIDENCE of OT belief in PURGATORY as an example

Now my answer, rather then throwing out long winded cut n paste catechism, discussing generalisations on what Catholics believe, etc

Was to simply state what Jesus himself stated, quoting the Old Testament.

In Jesus words :
" man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God"

there is absolutely nothing about other religions, their equality, the number of Catholics able to defend their beliefs. There is nothing about culling single passages and building new faith around it.

This is a simply understood passage regardless who you are or your beliefs.

OK

So there are HOW MANY ::Non-Catholics churches and sets of faith-beliefs because they Do or they DO NOT “hear” and accept EVERY WORD of GOD?

Btw this doesnt make sense and where is your evidence for the alleged %
“The numbers of Catholics by PERCENTAGE who are able to explain and defend our beliefs, is small compared to those who are able to do” so.

We’re done her

God Bless you

Patrick

 

[Roseeurekacross]

OK

The SECOND book of Maccabees Chapter 12: 38-46 is the clearest EVIDENCE of OT belief in PURGATORY as an example

So there are HOW MANY ::Non-Catholics churches and sets of faith-beliefs because they Do or they DO NOT “hear” and accept EVERY WORD of GOD?
We’re done her
God Bless you
Patrick

PJM,
I am not , as you seem to be responding too, arguing the disingenuity of 66 books. You hold up the example of the Book of Maccabees for evidence why 73 Books are, rather then 66. As we know, both Books of Maccabees are the account of how Judah Maccabee et. al, defeated those who sought to oppress Judaism in Palestine, beginning around 100BC ( has anything changed).

The passages in Maccabees you suggested I read, thanks btw, has nought to do with what I asked you.
However; is a stirring discourse on war and remission of sins.

And yes, we Catholics understand these 2 Books to be divinely inspired. No argument there mate.

---

PJM, again, you did not state ‘non catholics’ when you said:

“NOT commonly by fellow Catholics”. Your responses are truly confusing. Perhaps its in the manner of the cut n paste in another’s words where the translation to this discussion is lost?

---

What are you presenting evidence for here ?

Is your evidence in support of the words of Jesus, who Himself was presenting the words of God

" man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God"

Now depending on how old one believes the Old Testament to be, that passage, spoken by Jesus, originating in the Old Testament, has been kicking around for at least
3000 years +/- 500.
So it stands to reason, such a simple passage is well understood, and has been for quite some millenia.​

Are you presenting evidence for your comment:

Jesus TRIES to share"

As a Catholic, a humble sinner who loves and follows Christ, I really take offence to another Catholic, a fellow defender of the faith, stating Jesus TRIED.

Jesus DID. Who is God? I AM. I AM HE.

------’

I read a wonderful essay recently. Written by a Hermit Brother attached to an Order of St Michael, and in association with St Padre Pio, truly a Saint of our times.

The premise of this essay is of the devil using three tools (amongst others), to deceive the world. They are:

1. All opinions are equal, just, and to be respected and not disputed
2. We cannot judge because isnt that in the Bible.
3. Not stepping on toes, staying nice. Imitating Christ.

These tools of the devil , the Hermit Monk argues, are 3 falsehoods. Jesus Christ Himself judged actions and beliefs. Look to Scripture for examples, including those of shaking dust from feet where towns people were opposed to Him, and His Truth.
Jesus Christ was not nice or gentle all the time. He did step on toes and did exercise just anger. Imagine the response of His friend Lazarus, when a discussion of how easy it would be for the wealthy, like Lazarus, to enter Heaven. He drove a legion of demons into a herd of over 2000 swine belonging to Gentiles. That 2000 head of swine was then lost over a cliff. Jesus was not popular with the Farmers of those swine. Then there was the Temple being used as a supermarket.
Or when Jesus told those reporting His Mother and brothers were outside and wanting to speak with Him; whom His family was.

The Hermit Monk argues, in his essay, if we judge beliefs, actions, etc, then we give ourselves permission to judge opinions. And then find that not all opinions are equal and then do not require validation or respect. we have no need for intensive political correctness. Its ok to call a spade a spade. And we can respond assertively , rather then remaining polite and smiling in agreement.

And then we judge isms, are they all they are cracked up to be? Do they bring us closer to God ? Do they lead us firmly along that wide scenic smooth path to perdition.?
Which is the topic of my next response, once I have tended my very pregnant swine.

May God bless you and keep you on your journey home.