7th day adventists please answer

[rivera01]

7th day adventists claim tha the Catholic Church was started in 318 A.D. by Emperor Constantine, but history clearly refutes this idea, 318 A.D. is when the Edict of Milan was signed, which leagalized Christianity.

So, SDA’s, before the year 318, what was the christian church if it was not Catholic?

Please do not state that the christian church apostazied, because if this was so, then you are making Christ a lair when he said that the gates of hell, death, hades, etc. would not prevail against it. Which leads to another question.

If the church did go apostate, then why should I be a christian if Christ was a lying about this? If he lied about this, then what would make His testimony valid if He could have lied about everything else?

Please do not quote Ellen G. White and use history, early church documents, or other reasources, and most importantly cite your references.

 

[rivera01]

No answers yet?

Another question I would like to ask as well, is what was or is and what happened to the church that Jesus founded?

 

[Fidei]

i guess nobody’s around to answer you yet but shots WILL be fired here soon…

well, im guessing they will say,

a small group of christians remained loyal to what Christ taught and these were the desendants of the apostles and those who remained loyal to Christ… they hid under the nose of the papacy but just recently in 1800, they finally showed themselves up revealing the “truth” of Christ, thus “technically” the Christian church never did fall away… just hidden as discreetely as possible from 2000 years of “persecution” from the Catholic Church.

yeah, so discreet…
Catholicism - Lutheran - Anglican - Baptists - Anabaptist - Adventist (broke off) - SDA!
PRESTO! their process of recovery!

 

[CMatt25]

7th day adventists claim tha the Catholic Church was started in 318 A.D. by Emperor Constantine, but history clearly refutes this idea, 318 A.D. is when the Edict of Milan was signed, which leagalized Christianity.

So, SDA’s, before the year 318, what was the christian church if it was not Catholic?

Please do not state that the christian church apostazied, because if this was so, then you are making Christ a lair when he said that the gates of hell, death, hades, etc. would not prevail against it. Which leads to another question.

If the church did go apostate, then why should I be a christian if Christ was a lying about this? If he lied about this, then what would make His testimony valid if He could have lied about everything else?

Please do not quote Ellen G. White and use history, early church documents, or other reasources, and most importantly cite your references.

I’m not SDA but perhaps an answer would be the Church was made of Christians as found in Acts. And Christ is not a liar. The gates shall not prevail in the end.

Here’s a link to where they give Biblical sources as to the Church in their fundamntal belief #12 and in regard to the unity of His body in fundamental #14. Hope this helps some!

Peace.

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

 

[rivera01]

Fidei, this seems to be the common theme with JW’s, Mormons, and SDA’s, but they must prove from history that this is so. After all, the Church was underground in the time of persecutions from the pagans and emporers, but there are historical texts that show that the Church was flourishing during those dark times.

CMat25, I can see where you are going with this, but I think we would have to look at the tense of how Christ said those words to Peter. He said the gates of hell ***Shall Not ***prevail against it.This is clearly stating not in a future tense, but a present tense, not only a present tense but a permanent status as well.

Sorry about posting like this, I do not know how to multi quote on this…lol

 

[CMatt25]

Fidei, this seems to be the common theme with JW’s, Mormons, and SDA’s, but they must prove from history that this is so. After all, the Church was underground in the time of persecutions from the pagans and emporers, but there are historical texts that show that the Church was flourishing during those dark times.

CMat25, I can see where you are going with this, but I think we would have to look at the tense of how Christ said those words to Peter. He said the gates of hell ***Shall Not ***prevail against it.This is clearly stating not in a future tense, but a present tense, not only a present tense but a permanent status as well.

Sorry about posting like this, I do not know how to multi quote on this…lol

np I don’t either. I click the multi quote symbol and nothing occurs.

 

[Nicea325]

7th day adventists claim tha the Catholic Church was started in 318 A.D. by Emperor Constantine, but history clearly refutes this idea, 318 A.D. is when the Edict of Milan was signed, which leagalized Christianity.

So, SDA’s, before the year 318, what was the christian church if it was not Catholic?

Please do not state that the christian church apostazied, because if this was so, then you are making Christ a lair when he said that the gates of hell, death, hades, etc. would not prevail against it. Which leads to another question.

If the church did go apostate, then why should I be a christian if Christ was a lying about this? If he lied about this, then what would make His testimony valid if He could have lied about everything else?

Please do not quote Ellen G. White and use history, early church documents, or other reasources, and most importantly cite your references.

They have no historical proof and never will because none exist. The only SDA’s who believe such a great lie are those who are simply are to lazy and ignorant to do research and acknowledge Constantine founded no church.

My question to the believers of such an event,then provide the names of Christians and pagans who discuss the founding of the Catholic Church in direct competition with Christ Church? Good luck!

 

[rivera01]

They have no historical proof and never will because none exist. The only SDA’s who believe such a great lie are those who are simply are to lazy and ignorant to do research and acknowledge Constantine founded no church.

My question to the believers of such an event,then provide the names of Christians and pagans who discuss the founding of the Catholic Church in direct competition with Christ Church? Good luck!

LOL exactly the point I was trying to make! Lets see who replies.

 

[rivera01]

Still no replies.

 

[mtolympus]

Fidei, this seems to be the common theme with JW’s, Mormons, and SDA’s, but they must prove from history that this is so. After all, the Church was underground in the time of persecutions from the pagans and emporers, but there are historical texts that show that the Church was flourishing during those dark times.

I too would be interested in the SDA answer. However, here is my personal belief as an LDS member. Jesus Christ established His Church. He selected twelve apostles who would guide the Church through revelation when Jesus was no longer on the earth. The apostles were killed and revelation ceased. Some members fell away due to various reasons. However, I believe that many held to the truth that they had been taught by the apostles. The Church continued with bishops as leaders of local congregations. Without the central authority of the apostles guiding the Church through revelation, doctrine in the various congregations began to drift apart. The differences were especially apparent between the Greek speaking churches in the East and the Latin speaking churches in the West. In 325 AD Constantine called a council to unite the Church. In order to disclaim the false teachings of the Arians, Constantine established a Creed which was also in error. All the bishops were required to accept the Nicean Creed.

CMat25, I can see where you are going with this, but I think we would have to look at the tense of how Christ said those words to Peter. He said the gates of hell ***Shall Not ***prevail against it.This is clearly stating not in a future tense, but a present tense, not only a present tense but a permanent status as well.

My interpertation of this, of course is somewhat different. I believe he was telling Peter that what ever happens to the Church that in the end “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

 

[benidict]

I too would be interested in the SDA answer. However, here is my personal belief as an LDS member. Jesus Christ established His Church. He selected twelve apostles who would guide the Church through revelation when Jesus was no longer on the earth. The apostles were killed and revelation ceased. Some members fell away due to various reasons. However, I believe that many held to the truth that they had been taught by the apostles. The Church continued with bishops as leaders of local congregations. Without the central authority of the apostles guiding the Church through revelation, doctrine in the various congregations began to drift apart. The differences were especially apparent between the Greek speaking churches in the East and the Latin speaking churches in the West. In 325 AD Constantine called a council to unite the Church. In order to disclaim the false teachings of the Arians, Constantine established a Creed which was also in error. All the bishops were required to accept the Nicean Creed.

My interpertation of this, of course is somewhat different. I believe he was telling Peter that what ever happens to the Church that in the end “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

hello my friend. looks like youve done some research. what parts of the nicean creed do you believe were in error? also do you believe there are errors in the apostles creed, and the athanasian creed? got the spelling of the last one wrong i know it happens. Peace to you and yours.

 

[Dokimas]

LOL exactly the point I was trying to make! Lets see who replies.

Why would any SDAist comment here seeing some of you guys are already mocking them?

If you want a good, honest discussion, you’d do better with some humility and charity, which I’m quite sure the CC teaches you to have.

My last statement begs the question: Why cling tightly to so many of the CC and let slip some of the more important teachings that may lead others to the Truth – charity and humility?

 

[mtolympus]

hello my friend. looks like youve done some research. what parts of the nicean creed do you believe were in error? also do you believe there are errors in the apostles creed, and the athanasian creed? got the spelling of the last one wrong i know it happens. Peace to you and yours.

Thank you for your kind greeting. I do feel I am a friend of many of your faith and hope to make more friends. I truly believe that all Christians need to work together in the cause of Christ.

Constantine’s suggestion that Jesus was “of one subsance with the Father” was entered into the creed to put to rest the Arian argument that belief in the divinity of both the Father and the Son was polytheistic. The majority opinion of the bishops was that Jesus truly was divine. This of course is true. Yet we read in Jesus’ prayer to his Father, "that they might know thee the only true God. (John 17:3) (empahisis added) Latter-day Saints are monotheistic in that they worshp “the only true God.” God the Eternal Father is the one true God. This does not deny the divinity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. They with the Father make up the Godhead which is the presiding council of the universe. They are of one mind, one voice and of one authority. This authority, however, originated with God the Father. (John 5:26-27)

 

[benidict]

Thank you for your kind greeting. I do feel I am a friend of many of your faith and hope to make more friends. I truly believe that all Christians need to work together in the cause of Christ.

Constantine’s suggestion that Jesus was “of one subsance with the Father” was entered into the creed to put to rest the Arian argument that belief in the divinity of both the Father and the Son was polytheistic. The majority opinion of the bishops was that Jesus truly was divine. This of course is true. Yet we read in Jesus’ prayer to his Father, "that they might know thee the only true God. (John 17:3) (empahisis added) Latter-day Saints are monotheistic in that they worshp “the only true God.” God the Eternal Father is the one true God. This does not deny the divinity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. They with the Father make up the Godhead which is the presiding council of the universe. They are of one mind, one voice and of one authority. This authority, however, originated with God the Father. (John 5:26-27)

thank you very much for your candid answer my friend. is it true there is even some disagreements between different groups of Mormons on this issue? it is my understanding the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints, agrees with the doctrine of the trinity that is taught in Catholicism and mainstream protestantism. would that be correct? it is my belief that we will each be judged individually, and i expect to see many Mormons in heaven despite our differences in doctrine in these issues. even Augustine found it impossible to understand the trinity. while i believe that the Catholic Church is the One true Church that was founded by Christ, we are only responsible for what we know. i view the Mormons in the same vain as protestants. only difference is, i tend to have more of a soft spot for Mormons for some reason. lol! maybe its the wonderful cook books ive bought in utah. good recipes! Peace be to you and yours.

 

[mtolympus]

thank you very much for your candid answer my friend. is it true there is even some disagreements between different groups of Mormons on this issue? it is my understanding the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints, agrees with the doctrine of the trinity that is taught in Catholicism and mainstream protestantism. would that be correct? it is my belief that we will each be judged individually, and i expect to see many Mormons in heaven despite our differences in doctrine in these issues. even Augustine found it impossible to understand the trinity. while i believe that the Catholic Church is the One true Church that was founded by Christ, we are only responsible for what we know. i view the Mormons in the same vain as protestants. only difference is, i tend to have more of a soft spot for Mormons for some reason. lol! maybe its the wonderful cook books ive bought in utah. good recipes! Peace be to you and yours.

Are you in Iraq in the military? God bless you for your service, I pray for your safety.

The RLDS Church is now called “The Community of Christ.” To me the RLDS seem like a protestant church that accepts the Book of Mormon.

I believe that it is more important than ever for all Christians to unite in the cause of Christ. To do this we need to better understand each other. My hope in writing in this website is to help others understand the LDS teachings, which have been wildly distorted by some churches.

Like yourself, I also believe that we will be judged by what we know, and also by what we do with it. Be strong in the Church that gives you faith in Christ.

“Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.” (2 Cor. 3:17)

 

[Big_Dummy]

Jesus said there would be weeds among the wheat in the church. Paul warned about false apolostles, and Peter warned about false teachers. Jesus warned about false Christs, too. So, the existence of “apostasy” within the church is always possible along side the faithful. Even thou I am not SDA, I think they would pull out their remnant church teachings, claiming that the gates of the underworld did not overcome the faithful. But, that the corrupt religionists started what is now known as the catholic church or rome or whatever.

 

[Cruxis117]

Jesus said there would be weeds among the wheat in the church. Paul warned about false apolostles, and Peter warned about false teachers. Jesus warned about false Christs, too. So, the existence of “apostasy” within the church is always possible along side the faithful. Even thou I am not SDA, I think they would pull out their remnant church teachings, claiming that the gates of the underworld did not overcome the faithful. But, that the corrupt religionists started what is now known as the catholic church or rome or whatever.

“The Corrupt religionists”. What does this statement mean? Are you referring to the Early Church Fathers?

You are right, Paul did warn about false apostles and Christs, and false teachers.
You can see this in every single person who interprets scripture away from the Church’s guidance, and develops a new denomination based on the scraps of scripture that they’ve thought they had finally understood.

 

[mtolympus]

Augustine found it impossible to understand the trinity.

This was perfectly clear to Paul and the apostles who recieved their understanding by revelation. Paul wrote: “But to us their is but one God the Father… and one Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Cor. 8:6)

 

[rivera01]

Why would any SDAist comment here seeing some of you guys are already mocking them?

If you want a good, honest discussion, you’d do better with some humility and charity, which I’m quite sure the CC teaches you to have.

My last statement begs the question: Why cling tightly to so many of the CC and let slip some of the more important teachings that may lead others to the Truth – charity and humility?

If you found my reply offensive and uncharitable, then I do apologize. My intention was not to ridicule or belittle. I completly agree that we have to share the faith in a loving manner, but my loling at nicea’s comment was not to be taken demeaning. I just found it funny how he “said” his comment.

 

[rivera01]

Jesus said there would be weeds among the wheat in the church. Paul warned about false apolostles, and Peter warned about false teachers. Jesus warned about false Christs, too. So, the existence of “apostasy” within the church is always possible along side the faithful. Even thou I am not SDA, I think they would pull out their remnant church teachings, claiming that the gates of the underworld did not overcome the faithful. But, that the corrupt religionists started what is now known as the catholic church or rome or whatever.

This reply is kind of misleading. Because Christ’s promise was not a few believers, but the Church founded on Peter. Of course there were some episcopacies that did fall into heresy, and I think that this was expected. Especially since the Church was just starting to grow. But to say that the apostasy fell into the Church because of some believers accepted heresy is ludicrous. Since the promise was made to Peter and his episcopacy.