8 Simple Rules for dating a Duggar Daughter

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OP, you may find the site No Longer Quivering to be helpful in understanding where some of the other posters are coming from. Though many of the posts are virulently anti-Christian, one can understand (if not agree with) the perspective of the posters who grew up in such situations. (If one is beaten multiple times a week as a teenager to “drive Satan out of you,” for the most minor offences such as “having an insufficiently humble spirit,” one is unlikely to be able to understand the idea of God as love.) You might also look at Homeschoolers Anonymous, which details the sort of educational, emotional, and spiritual abuse rife in movements which believe that every aspect of a woman’s life must be kept under the tightest possible control.

I grew up in a Catholic community which imitated in many ways the situations described in those blogs. To be blunt, it is difficult to understand just what scars are left on a person who grows up with that sort of concept of God and His place in family life.

Women in communities like this are treated very, very badly if they don’t follow the dictates of the men who put themselves above them.

I remember one woman who attended our church who was (gasp of horror) divorced from her kids’ father. No one knew her well enough to know why (who would associate themselves with such a terrible sinner?), but she lived, to all appearances, a perfectly ordinary life. No boyfriends, no dating, her life revolved around raising her kids and working hard to support them.

Because of her divorce, she and the boys were openly shunned by virtually the entire parish. The boys attended the youth group, but were treated very badly by the leaders–not being allowed to go on trips that everyone else was going on with no other information than “they can’t come,” etc. At the coffee and donuts hour after Mass, I never ONCE saw another adult speak to her. She presumably attended because a few of the kids would (defying parental authority) play with/hang out with her kids from time to time. I was one of them.

At some point, it became obvious that she was pregnant. Gossip ran riot. No one cared that she had a couple of family members to help her and no one else. No one gave any thought to the kids. No, “everyone” knew that That Was To Be Expected from Women Like That. The nastiness towards the existing kids, if anything, increased.

According to her oldest kid, who confided in me, someone jumped her mom after work and raped her. Mom chose to keep and raise the baby. She hardly felt inclined to inform all and sundry of her rape when they’d never so much as spoken kindly to her before.

That woman was one of the bravest women I ever knew. I still don’t quite understand why she continued to attend that church; the only guess I ever came up with was that it was the only church in the area with the Tridentine Mass, and perhaps she was very attached to it. I don’t know.

I do know that when another member of the congregation decided to leave his stay-at-home wife of 25 years (and mother of his seven kids) to “marry” a woman young enough to be his daughter, though they’d been mainstays of the congregation, exactly one family stepped up to help the mom who’d been left with a houseful of kids, a degree that was twenty-odd years out of date, and no work history. I’m sure there were two sides to the story–there always are–but I fail to see how anything could excuse abandoning one’s wife and kids to shack up with a much younger woman. Why did no one else help? Because if he left, she must have done something to deserve it. She must have been a bad wife. She must not have been (insert quality here) enough, so it wasn’t his fault he left!

Insofar as chastity goes, I note with dry amusement that though I was considered the parish “slut” (and I quote) for attending public school my last two years of high school (long story), I was one of the minority in that youth group who waited to have sex until marriage, if evaluating only by the marital and offspring status of other former member on Facebook.

We were indoctrinated to obey all parental direction without question, to never ask “why,” to accept what we were taught at face value and think about it no further because that was an example of a “prideful spirit,” to shun anyone who didn’t measure up to our standards as “worldly” and “sinful”–and it certainly didn’t serve us well when we hit the real world, did it, judging by the number of single moms and unmarried dads I see from this group on Facebook.
 
Another thing from growing up somewhat close to there…you’re trained to appear a certain way, especially to outsiders. Dissatisfaction or unhappiness are not acceptable, because they indicate rebelliousness and disobedience. Questioning is also not acceptable. After all, you’re following God’s plan, and what good Christian would be less than happy with God’s will? Worse yet, if people see a Christian being unhappy they might be turned away from Christianity.

I think there are examples in the show (I’d have to look them up) that the girls are being taught that expressing their dreams and desires is unacceptable. They’re being corrected and told what they really mean if they say things that aren’t in line with the family’s plans.

I grew up with that mentality enough to know that you end up saying and even believing things because they’re what you think is right, both because that’s the face you’ve been taught is “godly” and because there’s too many consequences if you don’t.
 
Another thing from growing up somewhat close to there…you’re trained to appear a certain way, especially to outsiders. Dissatisfaction or unhappiness are not acceptable, because they indicate rebelliousness and disobedience. Questioning is also not acceptable. After all, you’re following God’s plan, and what good Christian would be less than happy with God’s will? Worse yet, if people see a Christian being unhappy they might be turned away from Christianity.

I think there are examples in the show (I’d have to look them up) that the girls are being taught that expressing their dreams and desires is unacceptable. They’re being corrected and told what they really mean if they say things that aren’t in line with the family’s plans.

I grew up with that mentality enough to know that you end up saying and even believing things because they’re what you think is right, both because that’s the face you’ve been taught is “godly” and because there’s too many consequences if you don’t.
My father grew up in the sort of atmosphere you described above. Religion was mainly used as a club to bully and control.

Needless to say, he is now an atheist.
 
Another thing from growing up somewhat close to there…you’re trained to appear a certain way, especially to outsiders. Dissatisfaction or unhappiness are not acceptable, because they indicate rebelliousness and disobedience. Questioning is also not acceptable. After all, you’re following God’s plan, and what good Christian would be less than happy with God’s will? Worse yet, if people see a Christian being unhappy they might be turned away from Christianity.

I think there are examples in the show (I’d have to look them up) that the girls are being taught that expressing their dreams and desires is unacceptable. They’re being corrected and told what they really mean if they say things that aren’t in line with the family’s plans.

I grew up with that mentality enough to know that you end up saying and even believing things because they’re what you think is right, both because that’s the face you’ve been taught is “godly” and because there’s too many consequences if you don’t.
Very true. I remember when a mom at the church who had already had ten kids or so had #11 and hit horrible PPD. I mean, can-barely-get-out-of-bed-let-alone-care-for-the-kids PPD. Bad.

Again, little help from the church. Why? Because if she was a good and holy Catholic mother she wouldn’t get PPD! This left the older two daughters (in their mid-teens) with nearly all the responsibility of caring for the younger siblings, including a newborn, while Mom recovered at her parents’ and Dad worked. You’d think this would be a great time for the church to step in and help, bring meals, etc, but…nope. She was letting evil into her life by having PPD and complaining too much, you see.

This isn’t a rant against big families, BTW. Nothing wrong at all with eleven kids, just with the attitude that if you aren’t happy all the time in your vocation you aren’t holy and you’re being a bad example to others. It’s reminiscent of the fundamentalist Mormon idea that women are to “stay sweet” all the time–i.e., never complain, never ask for help, never cry or show any negative emotion, and always smile to show others how happy they could be too if they just do what they’re supposed to. Mind you, God never promised us earthly happiness, only eternal, and this is an artificial and impossible standard to meet anyway, but they tend to ignore that.
 
OP, you may find the site No Longer Quivering to be helpful in understanding where some of the other posters are coming from. Though many of the posts are virulently anti-Christian, one can understand (if not agree with) the perspective of the posters who grew up in such situations. (If one is beaten multiple times a week as a teenager to “drive Satan out of you,” for the most minor offences such as “having an insufficiently humble spirit,” one is unlikely to be able to understand the idea of God as love.) You might also look at Homeschoolers Anonymous, which details the sort of educational, emotional, and spiritual abuse rife in movements which believe that every aspect of a woman’s life must be kept under the tightest possible control.

I grew up in a Catholic community which imitated in many ways the situations described in those blogs. To be blunt, it is difficult to understand just what scars are left on a person who grows up with that sort of concept of God and His place in family life.

Women in communities like this are treated very, very badly if they don’t follow the dictates of the men who put themselves above them.

I remember one woman who attended our church who was (gasp of horror) divorced from her kids’ father. No one knew her well enough to know why (who would associate themselves with such a terrible sinner?), but she lived, to all appearances, a perfectly ordinary life. No boyfriends, no dating, her life revolved around raising her kids and working hard to support them.

Because of her divorce, she and the boys were openly shunned by virtually the entire parish. The boys attended the youth group, but were treated very badly by the leaders–not being allowed to go on trips that everyone else was going on with no other information than “they can’t come,” etc. At the coffee and donuts hour after Mass, I never ONCE saw another adult speak to her. She presumably attended because a few of the kids would (defying parental authority) play with/hang out with her kids from time to time. I was one of them.

At some point, it became obvious that she was pregnant. Gossip ran riot. No one cared that she had a couple of family members to help her and no one else. No one gave any thought to the kids. No, “everyone” knew that That Was To Be Expected from Women Like That. The nastiness towards the existing kids, if anything, increased.

According to her oldest kid, who confided in me, someone jumped her mom after work and raped her. Mom chose to keep and raise the baby. She hardly felt inclined to inform all and sundry of her rape when they’d never so much as spoken kindly to her before.

That woman was one of the bravest women I ever knew. I still don’t quite understand why she continued to attend that church; the only guess I ever came up with was that it was the only church in the area with the Tridentine Mass, and perhaps she was very attached to it. I don’t know.

I do know that when another member of the congregation decided to leave his stay-at-home wife of 25 years (and mother of his seven kids) to “marry” a woman young enough to be his daughter, though they’d been mainstays of the congregation, exactly one family stepped up to help the mom who’d been left with a houseful of kids, a degree that was twenty-odd years out of date, and no work history. I’m sure there were two sides to the story–there always are–but I fail to see how anything could excuse abandoning one’s wife and kids to shack up with a much younger woman. Why did no one else help? Because if he left, she must have done something to deserve it. She must have been a bad wife. She must not have been (insert quality here) enough, so it wasn’t his fault he left!

Insofar as chastity goes, I note with dry amusement that though I was considered the parish “slut” (and I quote) for attending public school my last two years of high school (long story), I was one of the minority in that youth group who waited to have sex until marriage, if evaluating only by the marital and offspring status of other former member on Facebook.

We were indoctrinated to obey all parental direction without question, to never ask “why,” to accept what we were taught at face value and think about it no further because that was an example of a “prideful spirit,” to shun anyone who didn’t measure up to our standards as “worldly” and “sinful”–and it certainly didn’t serve us well when we hit the real world, did it, judging by the number of single moms and unmarried dads I see from this group on Facebook.
Wow, that is all very disturbing.

It’s funny how “Christians” that behave like that conveniently forget how Jesus treated the so-called outcasts and sinners in His community.
 
Wow, that is all very disturbing.

It’s funny how “Christians” that behave like that conveniently forget how Jesus treated the so-called outcasts and sinners in His community.
These “Christians” are the modern day Pharisees.
 
It’s great that the Duggar kids, so far, have not exhibited promiscuous behavior. But I really question the inherent goodness of not giving the children the opportunities to make choices.

I would rather say, “My daughter went out on her own, made her own decisions, and chose well” than, “I didn’t give my daughter the opportunity to make a mistake, so she didn’t”

The “problem” is that when you give your young adult children the opportunities to decide for themselves, they sometimes don’t do exactly what you want.
 
This is not a thread about their religious affiliation and how we should stay away from it. The purpose of this thread was to look at how their dating rules honors God and each other for the couple. I’ve seen too many pregnancies and living together couples and wished to discuss that. We as Catholics can do better than we are.
Except that their dating rules do not honor God nor each other. The rules infantilize the young women and have a truly bizarre involvement of the father in his daughters’ spouse choices. Treating women as perpetual children does not give glory to God.
 
I don’t follow the show because I can’t stand them, but are all the Duggar children expected to be reduced to nothing but baby making machines like their parents?
It is very sad that such anti-Life attitudes have become so common today. Children are a blessing, not a curse.
 
It is very sad that such anti-Life attitudes have become so common today. Children are a blessing, not a curse.
But having babies is not the only thing that human beings are for. And it would be a good idea to bring up one’s daughters so that they can support themselves, rather than just hanging around at home in a holding pattern waiting for Prince Charming to show up. One is more likely to meet a good guy when going to school or working.
 
It is very sad that such anti-Life attitudes have become so common today. Children are a blessing, not a curse.
One can view children as a blessing and still think that reducing women to nothing but baby factories is a bad thing. It’s no better than saying the only role for men is to bring in money for the family.
 
It is very sad that such anti-Life attitudes have become so common today. Children are a blessing, not a curse.
Certainly children are a blessing and not a curse. However, in the Quiverful movement, a woman’s worth is judged solely by the number of children she has, nothing more. They are not permitted to use even NFP to space births for any reason at all, including potential maternal fatality because to use anything to space births is an indication that they don’t trust God. In many subsections of the QF movement women are encouraged not to breastfeed or to wean after a month or two so that they can become pregnant again faster. This is not a balanced attitude.
 
But having babies is not the only thing that human beings are for. And it would be a good idea to bring up one’s daughters so that they can support themselves, rather than just hanging around at home in a holding pattern waiting for Prince Charming to show up. One is more likely to meet a good guy when going to school or working.
Not to mention that Prince Charming could die, leaving a widow with young children and no marketable skills. And, inconceivable as it may seem to the Duggars, Prince Charming could up and leave someday. Women should have the knowledge and skills to be financially independent.
 
One can view children as a blessing and still think that reducing women to nothing but baby factories is a bad thing. It’s no better than saying the only role for men is to bring in money for the family.
Or that their only role should be insemination, and any activity other than that or that interferes with that is to be discouraged.

Examples:

–“Sorry honey, no biking for you! It’s bad for your sperm count.”
–“No business trip for you, honey, I’m ovulating!”

See how disgusting it is to be reduced to a breeding specimen?
 
Certainly children are a blessing and not a curse. However, in the Quiverful movement, a woman’s worth is judged solely by the number of children she has, nothing more. They are not permitted to use even NFP to space births for any reason at all, including potential maternal fatality because to use anything to space births is an indication that they don’t trust God. In many subsections of the QF movement women are encouraged not to breastfeed or to wean after a month or two so that they can become pregnant again faster. This is not a balanced attitude.
Truth be told, I don’t even think breastfeeding to space pregnancies is encouraged. Michelle Duggar weans prior to the recommended minimum of 12 months so that she can become pregnant more quickly than nature would normally allow. As evidenced by her more recent pregnancies (which had tragic outcomes), her body is pretty worn out.
 
Certainly children are a blessing and not a curse. However, in the Quiverful movement, a woman’s worth is judged solely by the number of children she has, nothing more. They are not permitted to use even NFP to space births for any reason at all, including potential maternal fatality because to use anything to space births is an indication that they don’t trust God. In many subsections of the QF movement women are encouraged not to breastfeed or to wean after a month or two so that they can become pregnant again faster. This is not a balanced attitude.
Exactly and certainly is not what God meant when He said “be fruitful and multiply”. He didn’t say "be fruitful and multiply…at all costs, even if it may kill you"
 
Except that their dating rules do not honor God nor each other. The rules infantilize the young women and have a truly bizarre involvement of the father in his daughters’ spouse choices. Treating women as perpetual children does not give glory to God.
Yep. We can’t glorify God if we never had any choice in the matter. That’s the whole reason God gave us free will. He wants us to choose him out of love. And love can’t be forced.
 
The Duggars are well polished on TV.

The kids have no choice but conformity. To have your texts monitored as an adult is extreme.

Do some research on the Duggars involvement with ATI (Advanced Training Institute) and Vision Forum. Do some research on patriarchy and Doug Philips and Bill Gothard.

TLC edits the show. The Duggars embrace an extreme form of fundamentalism. The legalism in the groups above is very damaging.
 
Or that their only role should be insemination, and any activity other than that or that interferes with that is to be discouraged.

Examples:

–“Sorry honey, no biking for you! It’s bad for your sperm count.”
–“No business trip for you, honey, I’m ovulating!”

See how disgusting it is to be reduced to a breeding specimen?
Yep!
 
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