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Reuben_J
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This is news to me. Please do not do this.
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bobzills
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Please read the following article by Father Msgr. Clarence J. Hettinger who was ordained as a priest of the Peoria Diocese in 1942. After nine years as assistant pastor and two years of graduate canon law studies, he was full-time CEO of the Tribunal for ten years. Too Many Invalid Annulments
by Msgr. Clarence J. Hettinger
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=350&CFID=4582374&CFTOKEN=80059785
"A 1991 Rota decision said, “The continually, daily increasing number of marriage cases especially in some regions of the world in which the ground is defect of discretion of judgment and/or incapacity to assume and fulfill the essential obligations of marriage due to causes of a psychic nature constitutes a grave problem for the Catholic Church regarding the sanctity and stability of the matrimonial bond.”
Also take a look at the reasons for annulment listed in Judging Invalidity ©2002, By Fr. Lawrence G. Wrenn
Working out a couple of hours a day in the gym.
Being described as arrogant and selfish with an “I don’t need anyone else” attitude.
Saving one’s salary in a personal account.
Seeming to be obsessed with one’s body (personal appearance).
Ignoring one’s parents on one occasion when they came for a visit.
Seeing the world as his apple. (Psychiatric expert’s term)
Never being satisfied with a gift given by one’s spouse.
Feeling chronically disenfranchised in one’s (spousal) relationship.
Not achieving the desired companionship and intimacy one wants in marriage.
Suffering abandonment issues over a father who died.
Protecting herself by putting a hard shell around herself.
Suffering from low self-esteem, self-absorption, and a need for attention.
Lacking emphathy and fearing intimacy.
Comparing oneself to others and always finding them happier.
About a month before the wedding he drove his mother to a family reunion, leaving her all alone to make preparations for the wedding.
The psychiatric expert described the respondent as porcupinish. He didn’t want people near him; surprises he liked even less. It was noted in the proceedings, however, that he was in love with another woman.
Etc.
marysadvocates.org/wrennreasons.html
So the annulment process is a loophole according to which Catholics can easily get around the official teaching on the indissolubility of marriage. That is why I would question that statement that for Catholics marriage is until death. The loophole is that they can say that there was no marriage in the first place, because they did not know what they were doing when they exchanged the marriage vows.
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Reuben_J
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Thank God you were not making a general statement but actually referring to this.
Annulment is not something that is to be taken lightly and given easily. Sometimes it takes years to complete the process just to ensure that a valid marriage had actually did not take place. This can be a source of frustration to some depending on how you see it but certainly annulment is not done for convenience so that the applicant can remarry.
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bobzills
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What you say sounds pretty good, but if you would take a look at the statistics you would see that the criteria for granting a marriage annulment have eased up considerably. For example, in 1930, there were about 9 marriage annulments per year, whereas in recent years it ran higher than 60000 marriage annulments per year.
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Reuben_J
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Looking by the statistic, you are right. I don’t know how the figure comes about though. Today it’s slightly more than one billion (>1,000,000,000) Catholics worldwide.
Whatever it is, annulment is not something to be taken lightly and given easily. Due investigation process must be done thoroughly. The spirit behind it must be understood and be adhered to. Thus it not an easy thing to prove that a marriage was not valid in the first place. There are many factors to it and must be viewed from all perspectives.
An annulment is a blessing in that marriage couples who had made a mess of their life and had not understood Christian marriage properly are given new opportunity to start anew.
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Reuben_J
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Today incident of annulment should decrease as it is compulsory for a couple intending to get married to undergo a pre-nuptial marriage course in the parish where they are going to tie the knot. And to ensure that they are being married properly by the church. So there is no reason not to understand what Chriastian marriage requires of them.
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ralphinal
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Don’t forget that with the increase in catholics who do not respect the rules of the faith, you get an increase in Catholics who do not obey the marriage laws.
Some of them end up divorced and they end up back in the faith 100%. They want to remarry and find out that they need an annulment. They end up with a declaration of Nullity due to lack of cannonical form. I wonder if these are included in your figures.
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happilycatholic
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bobzills:
Pardon me for being blunt but your time would be better spent counseling catholics on sacramental marriages. NO ONE on this thread said that priest were performing unsacramental marriages IN the Church. You have completely turned around what I posted. You should probably go back and read my posts before you spread anymore of this propaganda.
I do not appreciate your restatement of what’s been said to mean that it was implied that catholics who marry IN THE CHURCH don’t know what they are doing. And I for one NEVER said “most catholics” anything.
The sad fact of the matter is my friend, we have A LOT of converts that were not married sacramentally in the Church, subsequently divorced and wanting to remarry in the Church.
There are also cradle catholics and folks who were catholic when married that did not marry in the Church by a priest.
Again, no one here is saying that priest are performing unsacramental marriages.
Please read before you post anymore of this rhetoric. I’m offended by it.
**Edit: Further, I understand that you are not in favor of annument, however to insinuate that the Church is going around willy nilly granting annulments left and right is not correct. In my parish alone I know at least three people who were denied annulments. I know two other couples that it took over two years to get their annulments. Only ONE of these people was a cradle catholic who was denied BECAUSE she and her husband were both catholic (counseled) and married IN the Church by a priest (valid catholic sacrament) and so she was subsequently denied.
The Church does not nulify marriages, circumstances do. The Church has NO authority to make marriages null or invalid. The Church can only investigate and determine with the power of the Holy Spirit guiding it, if a marriage is invalid and should be declared null.
The simple fact is, more and more people are entering into invalid marriages. Period. So maybe you should be a marriage counselor at your parish instead of smearing the Church for what you conceive is a lack of responsibility on their part.
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planten
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**You are all manipulating things to suit something. But it is difficult to understand what marriage is valid and what marriage is not. You are leaving things to the church. Why don’t you look in your bible? You should take guidance from your sacred book which you say is the word of God.
I believe there is nothing about anything (like marriage) there in the bible. Why is that?**
I believe there is nothing about anything (like marriage) there in the bible. Why is that?**
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happilycatholic
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Planten:
I’m guessing you are talking about the manipulation of what it is to be married? So, tell us what does it mean to be married to a Muslim? And in keeping with the OP, what does it mean for a child to be married to an adult in Islam? What is that child’s role in the marriage as compared to an adult woman in a marriage? And what does divorce mean in Islam?
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bobzills
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I think that you have a good point here. In Catholicism, you never know if your spouse is going to file for a marriage annulment ten or fifteen years later on and have the whole marriage declared invalid because she says that she didn’t know what she was doing when she took her marriage vows.
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happilycatholic
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Reuben_J
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hey guys …
just a small note - I think we are digressing though that’s a good discussion. But let’s get back to the topic of the thread before the mods intervene.
just a small note - I think we are digressing though that’s a good discussion. But let’s get back to the topic of the thread before the mods intervene.
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happilycatholic
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Thank you Rueben Jhey guys …
just a small note - I think we are digressing though that’s a good discussion. But let’s get back to the topic of the thread before the mods intervene.
I will attempt to find the last post that actually did have something to do with the op.
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happilycatholic
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“Well then if this is so and Aisha was older than 12, why is an Imam allowing an 8 year old child to to be sold to a 50 year old pediphile, in this day and age? What precedent is the Imam using and why does a father think he has that right?”
It seems at this question, which is not yet answered, the topic veered off.
So, any Muslim takers on this question?
It seems at this question, which is not yet answered, the topic veered off.
So, any Muslim takers on this question?
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happilycatholic
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Also, it seems we never got an answer to this question either. How about this one? Any Muslims want to answer this one?
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Reuben_J
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I am looking forward to good, objective and balanced answer to the two questions. Not an answer that’s always attacking Christianity or attaching Christianity to it and by doing so side tracking the topic.
I don’t understand … a thread on Islam very often would be derailed as if there is concerted effort to make it happen. This is a pity because then we will get our information from Christian posters which Muslims seldom agree with.
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