85% of Israelis are Atheists?

[danonwaveland]

The other day, I heard Fr. Mitch Pacwa say – I think it was on Marcus Grodi’s “Journey Home” program – that 85% of Israel’s population is atheist. My wife and I found this astounding.

Has anyone else heard of this? Is it that the bulk of the population considers itself “cultural” Jews and see themselves as citizens of Israel the same way we see ourselves as Americans, citizens of the US? Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

How great is our Lord!

 

[LilyM]

I’m thinking that it wouldn’t surprise me, given the difficult history of Jews as a culture and the extremely turbulent ancient and modern history of Israel as a nation, if a lot of Israelis no longer believed in God.

I’m not sure about the 85% figure though. Father Pacwa is more of an expert than I am, but I’d want to know his sources on that one.

 

[paarsurrey]

The other day, I heard Fr. Mitch Pacwa say … that 85% of Israel’s population is atheist.

Hi

What are Fr. Mitch Pacwa arguments? Kindly mention salient features.

I think there are Jewish members here, let us see how ther respond.

Thanks

 

[KarenNC]

The other day, I heard Fr. Mitch Pacwa say – I think it was on Marcus Grodi’s “Journey Home” program – that 85% of Israel’s population is atheist. My wife and I found this astounding.

Has anyone else heard of this? Is it that the bulk of the population considers itself “cultural” Jews and see themselves as citizens of Israel the same way we see ourselves as Americans, citizens of the US? Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

Seems out of sync with this report (my emphasis added)
trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RINVol9No2/insert/secular%20jewish%20israeli%20identity.htm

*A survey in 2004 showed that 81 percent of Israel’s population defined themselves as Jewish; 12 percent as Muslim; 3.5 percent as Christian (both Arab and non-Arab); 1.5 percent as Druze; **1.5 percent as atheist; **and another 0.5 percent as followers of other religions. In terms of religiosity, among Israeli Jews aged 20 and over, 44 percent defined themselves as secular; 27 percent defined themselves as traditional; 12 percent as traditionally observant; 9 percent as Orthodox; and 8 percent as ultra-Orthodox. *

 

[MH84]

Its one thing to not really believe in God or not practise your faith, its another to be atheist. To be an atheist is like a commitment to not believe in God isnt it.

 

[Shoshana]

I was in Israel twice and I would tend to believe that there is more secularism in Israel than atheism. It is rampant…no different than in the catholic church.

 

[MH84]

Has anyone heard of the new official adverts the country is releasing to promote tourism there. Talk about securalism. Bikini babes and ogling, perverted men are the feature . They reckon they are trying to move away from the war torn image. I couldnt believe the Israelies would tolerate this.

Thats what you get when countries are “westernised” according to our standards. I reckon China and India will be heading down that path. Did you know India has its own FHM (magazines) now? I just happened to stumble across that information…

 

[danonwaveland]

Thanks for the replies. I tend to agree that 85% is out-of-sync, but that’s why I asked. Now I’m left to ponder whether my hearing is going bad, whether I took his comment out of context, or if he just plain made a mistake.

God bless!

 

[tomarin]

Thats what you get when countries are “westernised” according to our standards. I reckon China and India will be heading down that path. Did you know India has its own FHM (magazines) now? I just happened to stumble across that information…

uh … but don’t forget that the indian government forbids movies to show couples kissing. so i see no reason to get worked up about indian hedonism just yet.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

From that survey,

A survey in 2004 showed that 81 percent of Israel’s population defined themselves as Jewish; 12 percent as Muslim; **3.5 percent as Christian (both Arab and non-Arab); **1.5 percent as Druze; 1.5 percent as atheist; and another 0.5 percent as followers of other religions. In terms of religiosity, among Israeli Jews aged 20 and over, 44 percent defined themselves as secular; 27 percent defined themselves as traditional; 12 percent as traditionally observant; 9 percent as Orthodox; and 8 percent as ultra-Orthodox.

The historical gap between the European Enlightenment heritage and the legacy of the Islamic world was clearly demonstrated in this survey. There was a particularly high prevalence of the secular label, 63 percent, among native Israelis of European descent, compared to 33 percent among native Israelis of Asian origin, and 25 percent of native Israelis of North African origin. Among Moslem Palestinians living in Israel, 11 percent defined themselves as very religious; 49 percent as religious; 21 percent as not so religious; and only 18 percent as not religious at all.

trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RINVol9No2/insert/secular%20jewish%20israeli%20identity.htm

I think Fr. Mitch Pacwa was maybe referring to “secular”, but the fact that 96.5 percent reject Jesus as the Messiah is proof that modern Isreal is NOT a fulfillment of prophecy because if it were such, there would be 100 percent Christians there.

 

[Shoshana]

Has anyone heard of the new official adverts the country is releasing to promote tourism there. Talk about securalism. Bikini babes and ogling, perverted men are the feature . They reckon they are trying to move away from the war torn image. I couldnt believe the Israelies would tolerate this.

Thats what you get when countries are “westernised” according to our standards. I reckon China and India will be heading down that path. Did you know India has its own FHM (magazines) now? I just happened to stumble across that information…

Walking the streets in Israel, there is no difference than walking the streets in New York or any other great city. Mini-skirts, big time make-up, very low cut tops, etc etc. There is a section where really Orthodox Jews live and they are dressed basicaly like the Amish. The women wear a headdress to cover their hair. But you can discern the air of spirituality in the air. These are the Jews who are against Zionism.

But secular is secular…both guides that I experienced did not practise their faith. They said God was everywhere (where have I heard that? ).

Nevertheless, there are devout Jews who pray at the Western Wall after school, after work, etc. It was most heart warming.

I tend to believe that the percentage would the same in Judaism as it is in Christianity.

 

[bpbasilphx]

There is a difference between what I call doctrinal atheism (actively believing there is no god and insisting on spreading the faith of non-faith) on the one hand and practical atheism (that is, simply living as if God doesn’t exist) on the other.

 

[Alexius]

Seems out of sync with this report (my emphasis added)
trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RINVol9No2/insert/secular%20jewish%20israeli%20identity.htm

*A survey in 2004 showed that 81 percent of Israel’s population defined themselves as Jewish; 12 percent as Muslim; 3.5 percent as Christian (both Arab and non-Arab); 1.5 percent as Druze; **1.5 percent as atheist; ***and another 0.5 percent as followers of other religions. In terms of religiosity, among Israeli Jews aged 20 and over, 44 percent defined themselves as secular; 27 percent defined themselves as traditional; 12 percent as traditionally observant; 9 percent as Orthodox; and 8 percent as ultra-Orthodox.

Its one thing to not really believe in God or not practise your faith, its another to be atheist. To be an atheist is like a commitment to not believe in God isnt it.

I would say that most of the “atheists” come from the Jewish population. Many Jews are not very religious in their observations and even fewer practice strict Judaism. Most seem to fall within nominal Jewish congregations which may or may not follow teach strict Rabbinical Judaism. Many Jews do not believe in an afterlife and some do not believe in God (esp. within the Recontructionist movement). All accept the Torah, but there are many views as to what it is and how one should interpret it…

Another issue is the definition of “atheist.” Some consider agnostics to be practical atheism…Finally, there is no evidence that 85% of Israelis are atheists and I think that seems a bit high, but that is merely my opinion.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[jimcav]

Thanks for the replies. I tend to agree that 85% is out-of-sync, but that’s why I asked. Now I’m left to ponder whether my hearing is going bad, whether I took his comment out of context, or if he just plain made a mistake.

God bless!

No, you heard him correctly!

I had the show on in the background, and it caught my attention when he said it. I was shocked. But because I wasn’t really paying attention to the context, I don’t exactly know what he meant by it either, but your not going crazy, you can be sure he said it!

 

[Jim]

I’ve heard Fr. Mitch state this several times, too. One one talk of this, “Christianity: It’s life in the Middle East”, he claims it’s because the vast majority of religous Jews who fled persecution went to Brooklyn, while during the early 20th century, the majority of the Jews who started emmigrating to Palestine did so because they were Marxists and wanted to start a socialist state there.
Nevertheless, that 85% figure still sounds too high for full-on “athiests”. Maybe someone should call him on his Open-line show every Wednesday (1-800-585-9396) at 3PM Eastern and ask him where he got this figure, and maybe if “agnostic” would be a better term?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The other day, I heard Fr. Mitch Pacwa say – I think it was on Marcus Grodi’s “Journey Home” program – that 85% of Israel’s population is atheist. My wife and I found this astounding.

Has anyone else heard of this? Is it that the bulk of the population considers itself “cultural” Jews and see themselves as citizens of Israel the same way we see ourselves as Americans, citizens of the US? Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

How great is our Lord!

I am somewhat perplexed by what you mean by the last line.

Yes, the majority are at least agnostic. God gave us this land. We don’t believe in a God, but He gave us this land.

Last time I was in Jerusalem is 15 years ago. I noticed a number of Hebrew converts in the congregation (Orthodox). I’ve seen stats since then that suggest that a majority of the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem is Hebrew now (a lot of the Jews coming from Russia decided that they liked Eastern Orthodoxy better).

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Has anyone heard of the new official adverts the country is releasing to promote tourism there. Talk about securalism. Bikini babes and ogling, perverted men are the feature . They reckon they are trying to move away from the war torn image. I couldnt believe the Israelies would tolerate this.

Thats what you get when countries are “westernised” according to our standards. I reckon China and India will be heading down that path. Did you know India has its own FHM (magazines) now? I just happened to stumble across that information…

What’s FHM?

 

[susankndrck35]

What’s FHM?

If I am correct it is a “mens” magazine

 

[danonwaveland]

Isa Almisry wrote: I am somewhat perplexed by what you mean by the last line.

Sorry, I was just a bit effusive at the moment. There is no connection with the questions/comments made above it and I apologize if someone thought otherwise. I’ve since changed the ending to my comments/questions to. . .

God bless,
Dan

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I’m sure your wife is glad to hear that.

Today I was in the library (I teach High School) and there was one of the teen magazines, with the headline “Gangsta boyfriends/hot sex/” and something else equally inappropriate for teen agers that I forget. I said “Just what they need.” The librarians response was “well, they’re going to do it anyway.”

Oh, I see. Crooked CEO’s are going to make golden parachutes by dishonest business practices, so I guess we shouldn’t do anything to correct that, since “they’re going to do it anyways.”

As to 85 of Israelis been athiest um I really do bat my eyes at that somewhat.

Areligious is more accurate. Britain is more religious.