90% reduction in Irish attending first papal visit since 1979 despite 1m rise in population

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Ireland has been lost, just as Quebec has been lost.

And who are to blame for that? Certainly not the Irish -or Quebec- laity.
 
I said in the other thread, I thought I watched a youtube video where there were half a million, maybe it was 200 K, who were having an audience with the Pope in 1979.

I’m an optimist though, I think it ebbs and flows. We will see.
 
there was a huge anti pope movement . the movement encouraged the anti catholics and anti popers to buy up tickets to this mass just so there would be a lot of vacant seats.

I see the secular world winning, I don’t see it as specific countries being lost to Catholicism.
 
We pray for Ireland, it will hopefully recover from the current setback which was caused in large part by the sins of priests and religious there.
I also don’t tend to think that the number of people coming out to see a Pope is necessarily a reflection of how devout all those people are.

However, Ireland was a missionary country and spread its Catholicism all around the globe to many, many countries, so even if it is not doing well as a Catholic country now, the Irish emigrants accomplished a lot for God elsewhere.
 
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At the same time… this whole practice of vast crowds of hundreds of thousands to millions of faithful assembling for a “super” papal Mass is very novel. I’m not at all saying there’s anything wrong with it… but it’s a tradition that only goes back to St JPII I think? For most of Church history, the doings of popes in distant Rome meant little for average Joe Catholics.

Personally, I have been to papal Masses in Rome at St. Peter’s. I consider that a privilege and blessing. I have very little interest in football field “super” Masses.
 
Can you blame them? Lots of heinous crimes committed by the leaders…
 
I for one say thank you to all those who received him and attended Mass despite bad weather.
It is moving to see faith wherever it is. No matter the difficulties.
Such a beautiful place .
 
twf said:
Personally, I have been to papal Masses in Rome at St. Peter’s. I consider that a privilege and blessing. I have very little interest in football field “super” Masses.
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Masses that get that huge are a bit annoying because most of the faithful do not get to receive the Eucharist.

I was fortunate to attend a ticketed Mass with Pope JPII at a sports stadium, where all the faithful did get to receive. But at these “football field Masses”, Holy Communion is generally only available to a small group of folks in the ticketed section.
 
The official number attending, the mass, has still not been released.

However, true to form, the Irish press is concentrating, today, on the anti-Pope rallies (of a few thousand people) and the latest allegations against Pope Francis/McCarrick,

The Pope’s WMOF visit was very successful for those ‘Catholics’ attending and/or watching the televised events.

Ireland is currently run/represented by an alleged atheist President, well he defines himself as ‘non-religious’, and a non-practicing Catholic prime minister.

www.independent.ie

'Inappropriate' to ask President if he is an atheist

PRESIDENT Michael D Higgins's office is insisting that it is "inappropriate" to ask if he is an atheist -- even though he had to swear a religious oath upon taking office.
www.independent.ie www.independent.ie

www.irishtimes.com

Varadkar ‘disagrees’ with church wording on gay people

Taoiseach said many Catholics fell excluded and hurt by terminology
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
 
OraLabora said:
Ireland has been lost, just as Quebec has been lost.

And who are to blame for that? Certainly not the Irish -or Quebec- laity.
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From what I have read, the bulk of the laity had, increasing over the decades, been embracing the ideals of the secular media and materialism. This was true even among those who had no exposure to sex abuse, or in other places and other denominations that had no sex scandals.

The massive breakdown of marriage, acceptance of abortion, and fixation on material goods and pleasures among laity would have happened anyway.

The scandal among the laity is just as bad as the scandal among clergy.
 
The pre-Conciliar Church in Quebec was highly Jansenist and clericalist, and ruled over the laity with an iron fist.

The laity’s rebellion was inevitable.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I also don’t tend to think that the number of people coming out to see a Pope is necessarily a reflection of how devout all those people are.
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There’s been a pretty well-documented drop in attendance at audiences and other papal events in general during Pope Francis’ papacy. Justly or not, he has been more divisive and unpopular than his immediate predecessors with the kind of fervent Catholics who go out of their way to go to such things.
 
The journel is not a reliable source. Many posted photos of crowd from an hour before the event and claiming it was the final turnout.

Anti Catholic media and haters at work here.

Here are actual pictures during the Mass.

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Everybody will be held accountable before God. It’s easy for people to want to pat themselves on the back when they see corruption in others and especially the upper heirarchy of the church, but everyone sins, and all sins hurt the Church.
 
commenter said:
From what I have read, the bulk of the laity had, increasing over the decades, been embracing the ideals of the secular media and materialism. This was true even among those who had no exposure to sex abuse, or in other places and other denominations that had no sex scandals.

The massive breakdown of marriage, acceptance of abortion, and fixation on material goods and pleasures among laity would have happened anyway.

The scandal among the laity is just as bad as the scandal among clergy.
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Guilt lies everywhere. But I tend to think one of the big problems is the clergy stopped preaching the whole Catholic Faith. Christianity became just a social welfare club. This has happened in the West in Protestant communities as well. So giving a few dollars to charity is all being a Christian means for a lot of people. You don’t need a Church for any of that.
 
These two sets of photos show the same crowd. The ones you have posted just make the crowd seem bigger from the low angle.
 
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