99 Names of Allah sung in a Catholic Cathedral

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I think its good what the catholic cathedral is doing. We Muslims need to reciprocate. Especially in Muslim countries by protecting the rights of our Christian neighbors to freely practice their religion as well as their freedom of speech.
 
It sounds like most Catholics here would rather have sung “99 Bottles of Beer” in the cathedral over the aforementioned.

Yes this is a joke 😃
 
I think its good what the catholic cathedral is doing. We Muslims need to reciprocate. Especially in Muslim countries by protecting the rights of our Christian neighbors to freely practice their religion as well as their freedom of speech.
You could start by allowing Cestusdei to perform the mass in front of the ka’aba.

By the way, what happened to Cestusdei? I kind of miss him. Hope he’s well.
 
There really is a strong appeasement urge among some well-meaning but misguided Christians. Why invent a ‘brotherhood’ with Muslims when there isn’t one to begin with? Muslims don’t consider Christians their brothers but lesser human beings.
It hasnt always been this way. Muslim and Christian relations were very goo up until about 910AD when sentiment among Christians began being focused on the return of Christ at the turn of the millennia and the retaking of the Holy Land by force.

Im sure that once the Islamic radicals (as well as some of us Christians who seem to want to force a holocaust in the name of Christs return) that are still living in the Dark Ages are marginalized then Christians and Muslims were find common grounds again.
 
It hasnt always been this way. Muslim and Christian relations were very goo up until about 910AD when sentiment among Christians began being focused on the return of Christ at the turn of the millennia and the retaking of the Holy Land by force.

Im sure that once the Islamic radicals (as well as some of us Christians who seem to want to force a holocaust in the name of Christs return) that are still living in the Dark Ages are marginalized then Christians and Muslims were find common grounds again.
But this doesn’t mean that Christians and Muslims should make friends again, now does it? 😉 😃
 
It hasnt always been this way. Muslim and Christian relations were very goo up until about 910AD when sentiment among Christians began being focused on the return of Christ at the turn of the millennia and the retaking of the Holy Land by force.

Im sure that once the Islamic radicals (as well as some of us Christians who seem to want to force a holocaust in the name of Christs return) that are still living in the Dark Ages are marginalized then Christians and Muslims were find common grounds again.
I disagree.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_the_Presbyter

Thomas the Presbyter was a 7th century Middle Eastern Jacobite author of anti-chalcedonian Syriac writings whose manuscripsts are preserved in the British libray of Syriac Manuscripts.

The writings provide an eye witness account to the events that took place in mid 7th century Iraq.

In the year 947 (635—36), indiction 9, the Arabs invaded the whole of Syria and went down to Persia and conquered it. The Arabs climbed the mountain of Mardin and killed many monks there in the monasteries of Qedar and Bnata. There died the blessed man Simon, doorkeeper of Qedar, brother of Thomas the priest.
In January the people of Hims took the word for their lives and many villages were ravaged by the killing of the Arabs of Muhmd and many people were slain and taken prisoner from Galilee as far as Beth.
On the twenty-sixth of May the Saqilara went from the vicinity of Hims and the Romans chased them.
On the tenth of August the Romans fled from the vicinity of Damascus and there were killed many people, some ten thousand. And at the turn of the year the Romans came. On the twentieth of August in the year nine hundred and forty-seven there gathered in Gabitha a multitude of the Romans, and many people of the Romans were killed, some fifty thousand.

christianorigins.com/islamrefs.html

Maximus the Confessor (d. 662)
To Peter, governor of Numidia, then in Alexandria, letter written between 634 and 640 AD

For indeed, what is more dire than the evils which today afflict the world? What is more terrible for the discerning than the unfolding events? What is more pitiable and frightening for those who endure them? To see a barbarous people of the desert overrunning another’s lands as though they were their own; to see civilization itself being ravaged by wild and untamed beasts whose form alone is human.

Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem, writing about the Saracens – dates from 6th of December in 636 or 637 AD.

But the present circumstances are forcing me to think differently about our way of life, for why are [so many] wars being fought among us? Why do barbarian raids abound? Why are the troops of the Saracens attacking us? Why has there been so much destruction and plunder? Why are there incessant outpourings of human blood? Why are the birds of the sky devouring human bodies? Why have churches been pulled down? Why is the cross mocked? Why is Christ, who is the dispenser of all good things and the provider of this joyousness of ours, blasphemed by pagan mouths (ethnikois tois stomasi) so that he justly cries out to us: “Because of you my name is blasphemed among the pagans,” and this is the worst of all the terrible things that are happening to us. That is why the vengeful and God-hating Saracens, the abomination of desolation clearly foretold to us by the prophets, overrun the places which are not allowed to them, plunder cities, devastate fields, burn down villages, set on fire the holy churches, overturn the sacred monasteries, oppose the Byzantine armies arrayed against them, and in fighting raise up the trophies [of war] and add victory to victory. Moreover, they are raised up more and more against us and increase their blasphemy of Christ and the church, and utter wicked blasphemies against God. Those God-fighters boast of prevailing over all, assiduously and unrestrainably imitating their leader, who is the devil, and emulating his vanity because of which he has been expelled from heaven and been assigned to the gloomy shades.

Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem (d. ca. 639)

a strong and vigorous sceptre to break the pride of all the barbarians, and especially of the Saracens who, on account of our sins, have now risen up against us unexpectedly and ravage all with cruel and feral design, with impious and godless audacity. More than ever, therefore, we entreat your Holiness to make urgent petitions to Christ so that he, receiving these favourably from you, may quickly quell their mad insolence and deliver these vile creatures, as before, to be the footstool of our God-given emperors. (Ep. synodica, PG 87, 3197D-3200A [p. 69])

Obviously some of the early Christians would agree with me.
 
You could start by allowing Cestusdei to perform the mass in front of the ka’aba.

By the way, what happened to Cestusdei? I kind of miss him. Hope he’s well.
Not the Ka’aba as it has been made off-limits. However, when the Christian delegation from Najraan came to visit the prophet Muhammad (sa) in Medina, he prepared his mosque for them to use as a place for worship.
 
Not the Ka’aba as it has been made off-limits. However, when the Christian delegation from Najraan came to visit the prophet Muhammad (sa) in Medina, he prepared his mosque for them to use as a place for worship.
I know the Ka’aba been made off limits - but it’s still unfair and unjust of the Muslims.

Obviously Muhammad was not always hateful towards Christians but as his power grew he became more hateful toward them. Hence he commanded Umar to expel all the Jews and Christians from Arabia. That is not very nice, don’t you think?

Some might call it … ethnic-cleansing. If it happened today we would view it as a crime against humanity.
 
I know the Ka’aba been made off limits - but it’s still unfair and unjust of the Muslims.

Obviously Muhammad was not always hateful towards Christians but as his power grew he became more hateful toward them. Hence he commanded Umar to expel all the Jews and Christians from Arabia. That is not very nice, don’t you think?
I think it is completely fair. We don’t require of the catholics to allow us to pray at the Vatican, If the catholic Pope refuses then that is within his right to refuse, no offense taken and no harm done.

If Umar expelled the Jews and Christians, he has done so out of his own accord and not through a commandment of the Prophet Muhammad (sa). Why would he ask Umar of all people? wasn’t Abu bakr the first khalif? it would make sense to ask Abu bakr rather than Umar. #2. Umar himself did not know the Quran or the islamic laws.
 
7th century = 800ad.

Roughly in agreement with my statement. Like I said, Christian-Muslim relations were good during the early period of Islam up until sentiment for the Crusades began to appear.
 
7th century = 800ad.

Roughly in agreement with my statement. Like I said, Christian-Muslim relations were good during the early period of Islam up until sentiment for the Crusades began to appear.
I didn’t know that Islamic incursions into France, Portugal and Spain, as well as some East European parts, all before the Crusades, were part of good relations…
 
I think it is completely fair. We don’t require of the catholics to allow us to pray at the Vatican, If the catholic Pope refuses then that is within his right to refuse, no offense taken and no harm done.
Unfair actually.

The Vatican City is not a real city - it is a palace and the private residence of the Pope - like the Forbidden City in Beijing was the private residence of the Emperor.

You don’t even allow mass in any part of Saudi Arabia.
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famdigy:
If Umar expelled the Jews and Christians, he has done so out of his own accord and not through a commandment of the Prophet Muhammad (sa). Why would he ask Umar of all people? wasn’t Abu bakr the first khalif? it would make sense to ask Abu bakr rather than Umar. #2. Umar himself did not know the Quran or the islamic laws.
#1 - untrue.

Saheeh Muslim - 1767
Narrated Omar bin Al-Khattab:
He [Omar] heard the Messenger of Allah (SAW) saying, “O I indeed will exile the Jews and the Christians from the Arabian Peninsula until I leave no one but a Muslim.”

Muslim Book 019, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

#2 - irrelevant - besides he was a Companion and a Caliph and personally knew Muhammad. I’d think he knew Islam more than you.
 
If I practiced my Catholic Faith openly in Mecca, I would be killed. If a Muslim practiced his faith openly in front of St. Peters Cathedral, you know what would happen to him, NOTHING. If a person is forced to believe under pain of death, then I say that person has no belief at all.
 
If I practiced my Catholic Faith openly in Mecca, I would be killed. If a Muslim practiced his faith openly in front of St. Peters Cathedral, you know what would happen to him, NOTHING. If a person is forced to believe under pain of death, then I say that person has no belief at all.
Yes - that is all I’m asking for - dear Cestusdei to conduct a mass in front of the Ka’aba and famdigy invite his local Imam to conduct a Muslim service in front of St Peter’s.

Reciprocity is fair, isn’t it?
 
No it is not. Instead of addressing the God of Muhammad - you talked about the God of Jeremiah and Jonah.
What makes you so sure the latter is the God Jesus talked about? Or even that Jeremiah and Jonah were talking about the same thing? The God described by one Old Testament prophet is very different in characteristic from that described by another. Jeremiah’s God is a storm-cloud over the land, Isaiah’s a personal, ecstatic, and generally more benevolent being. Different people can get different impressions of the same thing. Why are you so opposed to Mohammed’s impression being at its root the same thing as Jesus’?
The evidence that the Islamic Allah oppresses Christians and doesn’t know the first thing about Christian theology. If he is the same god wouldn’t you think he would know?
If he were the same God described by two perfect sources, then of course. I say the shirt was green, you say it was blue. No human being is a perfect source. Maybe you think Jesus was; some people think Mohammed was. None of us around today have met them in the flesh.
I already told you I have no problems in saying the catechism is wrong. I will tell you why - I don’t blindly follow the teachings of some scholars who got it wrong. The church isn’t always right. The catechism is not infallible.
You might as well reject the Code of Canon Law. The Catechism is not an advisory work; it is an exposition of doctrine, no more, no less.
So your god has no omnicience? He can’t tell the future? He didn’t know that Jesus Christ would come along and that Christians would exist?
I have no God.
The point is that the conversion made them good and moral men. That is why the faith is good. There is a concept called redemption.
Conversion doesn’t make you good, it makes you Catholic. Important distinction.
You have assumed they are ONE person. That is the crux of the issue which you already presumed to be true. I disagree because it is merely a claim by Muhammad that they are one person.
The Pope seems to think so too.
Why would I give credence to someone as demonstrably evil as Muhammad?
Why would you not give credence to your own Pope? But ah, you pick and choose which doctrines you will follow, so apparently you are a Protestant – or a very bad case of a cafeteria Catholic.
 
Why would you not give credence to your own Pope? But ah, you pick and choose which doctrines you will follow, so apparently you are a Protestant – or a very bad case of a cafeteria Catholic.
Rodrigo is an atheist, but unlike you, he sees the difference between Islam and Christianity. He defends Christianity while you defend Islam.

Vickie
 
I didn’t know that Islamic incursions into France, Portugal and Spain, as well as some East European parts, all before the Crusades, were part of good relations…
so your against immigration and the freedom to convert to another religion. No problem there. But this didnt happen until centuries after Islam appeared on the scene.

my statement holds true.
 
Muslims believe in Abraham and Jesus. They worship the same God.

From the Catholic point of view, they do so in an incorrect way, but to call him a “false god” is taking it too far.

Embracing peace between two religions doesn’t mean you’re condoning doctrine appeasement. It means you’re condoning peace. We can either live in the Middle Ages forever, and even try to kick up the Inquisition again, but I would like to point something out: Christ helped the gentiles, too.

Now, here’s what I have to say about this. You can either continue to justify your bigotry by taking assorted Qur’an verses and putting them in a context of propaganda, or you can lead by example.

beliefnet.com/gallery/terrorist.html
 
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