A better sapient / sentient being

[Abrosz]

If you look at “humans” with an unbiased eye, you can see how easy it would be to create a much better type of being. I am only talking about existing features, already present in other beings in our ecosystem, not something really off the wall. So let’s play with this concept.

For example let’s consider “amphibians”, who have both lungs and gills, so they can live both in water and on dry land. What an improvement it would be over the current “arrangement”.

Then we can contemplate the procreation process. The mammalian arrangement of growing the progeny inside the uterus is definitely inferior to other methods. For example the marsupials. No pregnancy with uncomfortable growth of an embryo or fetus inside the body, and then a painful delivery.

There could be many-many others, but I don’t want to take away your fun to contemplate the possibilities. So open up your fantasy, and help us to create a better “being”, by using the existing “technology”, which we can “borrow” from the existing beings.

When I look at the current “design” of humans, my first thought is that we are created of inferior materials with shoddy design and lousy workmanship.

 

[Lucy_1]

When I look at the current “design” of humans, my first thought is that we are created of inferior materials with shoddy design and lousy workmanship

Uh… what’s your second thought, lol? Are you a Christian? I mean, it’s fun to imagine us differently, but the quoted thought is pretty arrogant. Especially considering how complex the body’s systems are.

 

[John_Martin]

When I look at the current “design” of humans, my first thought is that we are created of inferior materials with shoddy design and lousy workmanship .

Perhaps a specific poorly crafted and shoddily designed body and brain of inferior material has also had a non-philosophical look at himself claiming that he as an inferior creature can have a superior first thought about his inferior reasoning abilities and other material attributes.

Sounds like Nietzsche’s Uebermensch has arrived???

 

[Anesti33]

When I look at the current “design” of humans, my first thought is that we are created of inferior materials with shoddy design and lousy workmanship .

I am sorry you feel that way. Perhaps a therapist could help you work through those feelings.

 

[White_Tree]

If you look at “humans” with an unbiased eye, you can see how easy it would be to create a much better type of being.

God thought the same. And that is exactly what He did.

The human body is a seed. It’s not the final product. As Paul tell us:

Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
– 1 Cor 15:36-45

As far a seeds are concerned, the main function they need to serve is the ability to germinate into that which the seed is supposed to grow into.

From that perspective, I think the human body holds up pretty well.

 

[OddBird]

you can see how easy it would be to create a much better type of being.

Better according to whom ? From your post, it seems that you’re equating “better” with “expanded physical abilities” and “more comfort”. But isn’t that a very superficial approach of what “better” could be ? Aren’t our limits and shortcomings the only way we can ever become better, be it because they force us to intellectual and technical feats, or because they teach us that we’re not self-sufficient and have to depend on God ?

From a purely material point of view, I remember reading that the more perfectly a being is adapted to his environment, the less gray cells it needs (like sharks, for example). If we imagine for a minute that we could choose to begin an evolutionary process in the direction you describe, wouldn’t this “improvement” you suggest come at a terrible price ?

 

[Abrosz]

Uh… what’s your second thought, lol? Are you a Christian? I mean, it’s fun to imagine us differently, but the quoted thought is pretty arrogant.

I used to be a Christian. But even then I loved to imagine things to be different than what they are. ALL of our advancement was based upon a “WHAT IF” kind of thinking.

I am sorry you feel that way. Perhaps a therapist could help you work through those feelings.

I don’t need a “therapist” to cure my rationality. And my penchant for thinking - especially outside the box. Your condescension is not welcome.

From that perspective, I think the human body holds up pretty well.

The current pandemic refutes your view.

Better according to whom ? From your post, it seems that you’re equating “better” with “expanded physical abilities” and “more comfort”.

Do you “frown” on them? Do you like our incompetent immune system, which is unable to resist disease carrying agents? Do you prefer that many people drown because the water is so hostile to our abilities?

… that we’re not self-sufficient and have to depend on God ?

Do you depend on God when driving? Or your own training and abilities? I made a cartoon many years ago, which depicted a car wreck due to running into a tree. But the bumper sticker was clearly visible, and it said: “God is my co-pilot”.

It is simply funny that no-one (so-far) is interested in participating in a thought experiment. Do you REALLY think that this is the “best possible world” which cannot be improved upon? Or are you unwilling to think outside the box? Or to say something that might be “critical” to God?

OK. A few more thoughts for your edification. We have a pain-registering nervous system, which warns us about possible problems. A much better solution would be available in the “flora”. If a branch of a tree breaks, it can grow replacement. No pain, just regrowth. And the same ability is present in some animals. The lowly planaria can be cut in half, and both sides will regrow into a full being.

If you look at nature, there are wonderful solutions, which would be very welcome. But evolution is a “blind” designer, it cannot learn from his own mistakes. A competent and wise creator could, should and would do much better.

 

[OddBird]

Do you depend on God when driving? Or your own training and abilities?

I can’t drive for the life of me, but that’s not the point.

The point I was making that was had we had super fast wings or locust legs - or whatever-, we probably wouldn’t have felt the need to build cars in the first place, and it’s doubtful we’d even have had the brain to conceive them.

Do you REALLY think that this is the “best possible world” which cannot be improved upon?

I don’t believe that, because we humans are fallen.
But our limits are the way God teaches us to grow - both in terms of scientific progress, and, maybe more importantly, in terms of spiritual growth.

I don’t desire not being forced to grow, even when it’s uncomfortable or painful, because the alternative would be inescapable separatedness from God - and also because if that world was perfect, then there would be nothing to hope for and work toward to, and I’m not sure it would be bearable.

 

[Lucy_1]

We have a pain-registering nervous system, which warns us about possible problems. A much better solution would be available in the “flora”. If a branch of a tree breaks, it can grow replacement. No pain, just regrowth

From a Christian perspective, this would be a decline. Pain improves the character, is spiritually educative, and redemptive.

I don’t need a “therapist” to cure my rationality. And my penchant for thinking - especially outside the box.

Rationality and thinking outside the box isn’t the problem he’s addressing. Indeed, those aren’t viewed as problems by anyone.

 

[Neithan]

Do you REALLY think that this is the “best possible world” which cannot be improved upon?

No, I don’t think this is the best possible world. Why should I? Nature could have developed differently if it is a free process.

But I agree with @OddBird that your idea of “better” is entirely naturalistic. Perhaps a less vulnerable creature would have even fewer virtuous people among them. And maybe there are such intelligent and physically “superior” creatures out there on a different planet. All the more reason for our humility in the face of the cosmos. Personally I wish we could fly (naturally). That would be pretty cool.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Do you like our incompetent immune system,

We all die, so death is not the problem. God promises a greater good life after death, I am sure it will be far better than your imagination can take you.

The design of our bodies is not the problem, it is what we do with our bodies that become a problem. Injustice, wars, letting people starve etc. If there is no god, then all the injustice in this world will never get put right.

I can’t imagine how awful we would be to each other; if we were immortal and did not feel pain.

 

[Dan_Defender]

I am only talking about existing features, already present in other beings in our ecosystem, not something really off the wall. So let’s play with this concept.

To be fair, other creatures would benefit from certain features too. One of the big examples is the wheel, many species at the bottom of the sea and on land would benefit from them. It is so obvious that it boggles the mind that evolutionary forces would not produce creatures with retractable wheels made of keratin which could grow back after worn out. And yet, the wheel is only there for human use. Goes against the theory of evolution IMO.

 

[GEddie]

Wheels are far less useful in the water than a neutrally-buoyant organism that can move freely off the ground. They are also overrated on diagonal or soft surfaces. The Andean Indians knew of wheels but made no use of them.

On an irregular surface, jointed limbs are far more effective, but more complex. A robot using two feet to move around in fact requires more computer power than flying.

Trees feel no pain because they have no brain. Is giving up your mind really a good price for avoiding aches and pains?

ICXC NIKA

 

[Dan_Defender]

Wheels are far less useful in the water than a neutrally-buoyant organism that can move freely off the ground. They are also overrated on diagonal or soft surfaces.

I disagree. Bottom dwelling animals of the sea would cover a wider range if they could roll by tides and and ocean currents instead of inefficiently crawling or walking. Also, on land it has been shown that rodents with retractable wheels could outrun predators in hilly terrain.

 

[Lucy_1]

Also, on land it has been shown that rodents with retractable wheels could outrun predators in hilly terrain.

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[White_Tree]

The current pandemic refutes your view.

It’s not entirely clear to me how the current pandemic has any bearing on the birth in the spirit (John 3:3-8) or the resurrection.

Would you care to elaborate on that?

 

[Abrosz]

Trees feel no pain because they have no brain. Is giving up your mind really a good price for avoiding aches and pains?

Nobody says that the brain must have both the pleasure/pain center AND the part for the cognitive skills.

One of the big examples is the wheel, many species at the bottom of the sea and on land would benefit from them.

The wheels are one specific structure. There can be no embryonic proto-wheel.

We all die, so death is not the problem.

Well, death does not affect the bacteria - they are immortal.

God promises a greater good life after death, I am sure it will be far better than your imagination can take you.

Promises count for nothing. And there is no evidence for the afterlife.

Pain improves the character, is spiritually educative, and redemptive.

If so, just grab a hammer and start pounding your fingers.

Indeed, those aren’t viewed as problems by anyone.

They are viewed as possible improvements BY ME.

I don’t desire not being forced to grow, even when it’s uncomfortable or painful, because the alternative would be inescapable separatedness from God - and also because if that world was perfect, then there would be nothing to hope for and work toward to, and I’m not sure it would be bearable.

In this world we are totally separated from God. No beatific vision, no conversation, just nothing. And I was not talking about a “perfect” world (which is a meaningless concept) only possible improvements of this one.

It’s not entirely clear to me how the current pandemic has any bearing on the birth in the spirit (John 3:3-8) or the resurrection.

Would you care to elaborate on that?

Is there any evidence for the “birth of the spirit” whatever that might be.

 

[fhansen]

When I look at the current “design” of humans, my first thought is that we are created of inferior materials with shoddy design and lousy workmanship .

Try making one . Either way our earthly bodies only serve a temporary purpose; they’re not an aspect of man’s perfection which entails how we live our lives in these bodies. But God could always make something better, as the catechism affirms.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Not to be sassy, but where’s the human being you created from scratch?

(I don’t mean birthed. I mean Created)

 

[White_Tree]

Is there any evidence for the “birth of the spirit” whatever that might be.

If you were unaware of the birth in the spirit, what were you referring to in your earlier post then?