A Biblical Lie to Be Cleared Up Re Cain And Abel?

[Starwynd]

I was in a discussion over Cain and Abel and that there is no reason given in the bible for Cain killing Abel, and he said that some biblical scholars had said that the reason Cain killed Abel was because that Abel made some sort of homosexual pass at him. I asked for names and sources and he was unable or unwilling to give me them and I’ve been pestering him for two weeks now, and I’ve eve scoured the internet for this but have been unable to find any information regarding this claim, but my search skills suck. So I think he’s just flapping his gums.

Is there any Catholic teaching on the true reason Cain killed Abel? Is there a bible verse that does specifically mention the reason Cain Killed Abel? And why would God protect Cain after the crime?

 

[jmcrae]

The Scriptures tell us that Cain killed Abel out of jealousy because Abel’s sacrifice was acceptable to God, but Cain’s was not. (Genesis 4:1-16)

 

[omegabane]

The Scriptures tell us that Cain killed Abel out of jealousy because Abel’s sacrifice was acceptable to God, but Cain’s was not. (Genesis 4:1-16)

Actually, the Scriptures never say that it was out of jealousy that Cain killed Abel. This is something that we, as readers, apply as a motive; however, the Scriptures only tell us that the Lord looked with favor on the offering of Abel and that Cain “greatly resented this and was crestfallen” (NAB) or that he “was very angry and his countenance fell” (RSV).

This is not to say that jealousy was NOT the motive, only that the Scriptures do not actually explicitly say, “And Cain killed Abel out of jealousy.”

That said, there is no evidence whatsoever in the Scriptures that Abel made any sort of homosexual pass at Cain. Any source which suggests this is not basing the claim on Scripture.

 

[jmcrae]

Actually, the Scriptures never say that it was out of jealousy that Cain killed Abel. This is something that we, as readers, apply as a motive; however, the Scriptures only tell us that the Lord looked with favor on the offering of Abel and that Cain “greatly resented this and was crestfallen” (NAB) or that he “was very angry and his countenance fell” (RSV).

God then warns him not to wallow in his anger and jealousy, lest sin should follow, and then immediately after that, the murder takes place.

That said, there is no evidence whatsoever in the Scriptures that Abel made any sort of homosexual pass at Cain. Any source which suggests this is not basing the claim on Scripture.

I can’t even imagine what the source of such a claim could be. We know nothing about Abel except that his sacrifice of fat offerings was acceptable to God, and that he was murdered.

 

[omegabane]

God then warns him not to wallow in his anger and jealousy, lest sin should follow, and then immediately after that, the murder takes place.

Again, in the two translations I have before me, this is not the exchange that takes place in Genesis 4:6-7.

NAB:
“So the Lord said to Cain: ‘Why are you so resentful and crestfallen? If you do well, you can hold up your head; but if not, sin is a demon lurking at the door: his urge is toward you, yet you can be his master.’”

RSV:
“The Lord said to Cain, ‘Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is couching at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it.’”

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that this was not a sin committed out of jealousy. I am simply stating that we are not specifically told that it was. Verses 6-7 are surely a warning from the Lord, but they really get more to the point of doing good in the sight of the Lord and mastering sin, not about overcoming jealousy.

 

[mark_a]

I was in a discussion over Cain and Abel and that there is no reason given in the bible for Cain killing Abel, and he said that some biblical scholars had said that the reason Cain killed Abel was because that Abel made some sort of homosexual pass at him. I asked for names and sources and he was unable or unwilling to give me them and I’ve been pestering him for two weeks now, and I’ve eve scoured the internet for this but have been unable to find any information regarding this claim

Keep in mind that some folks believe that even ssa (not just homosexual acts) is in and of itself a sin.

So I think he’s just flapping his gums.

If he is unable to at least give you the google search terms, you have my permission to presume so.

 

[Jimdandy]

Of the two sacrifices of Cain and Able, God chose Able’s because to most resembled the future Sacrifice of Jesus-one of sacrifice and shedding blood.

Cain was guilty of the sin of pride-instead of listening to God and being humbled to give God the sacrifice of His choice, Cain lashed out in anger and resentment at his brother.

Nothing sexual at all -

 

[Starwynd]

believe that even ssa

Excuse me, ssa?

 

[omegabane]

Excuse me, ssa?

Same-sex attraction

 

[Linda_Marie]

We need to look at extra-biblical sources to find out the details on the dispute between Cain and Abel. These are found in the First and Second Books of Adam and Eve. The story of Cain and Abel starts at Part 9 of the First Book. While not Scripture, these stories were known to the ancient Hebrews.

The reason Abel’s sacrifice was acceptable was because he gave generously of his first fruits and never had to be told to do so by his father, Adam.

Cain, on the other hand, reserved the best for himself and only offered the least and the worst of his produce. He resented having to give any of the fruits of his labour and Adam had to force him to make his offerings.

The biggest issue for Cain, however, was his twin sister who he loved but who was to be given to Abel for wife. He regarded his sister as belonging to him alone and would let no other have her. After he murdered Abel, he fled with his sister and made her his wife.

So, the problem was heterosexual not homosexual.

 

[Pug]

Interestingly, the CCC specifically mentions “envy” in the context of Cain and Abel:

**2259 **In the account of Abel’s murder by his brother Cain, Scripture reveals the presence of anger and envy in man, consequences of original sin, from the beginning of human history. Man has become the enemy of his fellow man. God declares the wickedness of this fratricide: “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground. And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand.”

Also, one could try to support the argument another poster made by noting that of Abel the bible itself says that he offered of the “firstlings” of his flocks but of Cain it only says that he brought of the “fruit” (and not the first-fruits) of the ground. Bringing the “first” or choicest portions is a bible concept that one *might *see lacking in Cain’s offering, even without reference to extra-biblical sources.

 

[omegabane]

We need to look at extra-biblical sources to find out the details on the dispute between Cain and Abel. These are found in the First and Second Books of Adam and Eve. The story of Cain and Abel starts at Part 9 of the First Book. While not Scripture, these stories were known to the ancient Hebrews.

The reason Abel’s sacrifice was acceptable was because he gave generously of his first fruits and never had to be told to do so by his father, Adam.

Cain, on the other hand, reserved the best for himself and only offered the least and the worst of his produce. He resented having to give any of the fruits of his labour and Adam had to force him to make his offerings.

The biggest issue for Cain, however, was his twin sister who he loved but who was to be given to Abel for wife. He regarded his sister as belonging to him alone and would let no other have her. After he murdered Abel, he fled with his sister and made her his wife.

So, the problem was heterosexual not homosexual.

I would be very cautious when referencing sources such as these. Not only are these not canonical, they are also not part of the tradition of the Church. I can’t find any moral or theological authority that uses these sources, so for me they are exceptionally suspect.

 

[Linda_Marie]

I would be very cautious when referencing sources such as these. Not only are these not canonical, they are also not part of the tradition of the Church. I can’t find any moral or theological authority that uses these sources, so for me they are exceptionally suspect.

I view them as I do such works as Homer’s Iliad or Aesop’s Fables. They are historical, perhaps only folk lore, but they contain some information helpful to us. I would hazard a guess that these stories were told to Hebrew children, maybe as bedtime stories. I do not give them the weight of Scripture.

At any rate, when I re-read the account in Genesis, it all of a sudden made a lot more sense, particularly in regards to their offerings to God and the source of their enmity.

I had always had a problem understanding why Cain’s offering was rejected. I thought it terribly unfair to Cain. Cain worked hard to produce his crop. Why did God reject his offering?, because burning grain stinks?, while roasting meat is appetising? Why would Cain kill over it? There had to be more to it than was recorded in Genesis.

Now, I understand and it is the result of the extra-biblical literature fleshing out the story in Genesis. It certainly has more weight than idle speculation that a homosexual advance was made to instigate the murder.

BTW, I always pray that the Holy Spirit guide and protect me when reading these and always submit to the teachings of the Church if my understanding differs. I’ve only been at this for 28 years. The Church has had 2,000 and was taught by Jesus personally.