A Bright Moment

[SentimentalGent]

Sometimes it’s great to come across some good news and that there may be some hope for the Catholic Church in America.

I went to Mass this morning at a local church. It’s not my parish but it was just more convenient to attend this church in Girardville, Pennsylvania. St. Joseph Church, by name. Before Mass starts, the Angelus is prayed, along with a prayer for vocations. During the homily, which was excellent, the pastor mentioned about the recent work done to put the tabernacle back at the center altar. Praise be Jesus Christ!!! It was moved to the side many years ago, but is now back where it belongs. There was a special ceremony on Saturday officially blessing the move. The pastor mentioned that the sanctuary lamp was the only thing that needed to be placed in the sanctuary.

After Mass, I saw the pastor signing papers and church bulletins from children. I asked him about that and he said those were children who will be confirmed in the near future. As part of their being allowed to receive Confirmation, they need to show proof they’ve been going to Sunday (or Saturday Vigil) Mass. It’s great to know that the sacraments are being taken seriously here.

Like I said, a bright spot. May there be many more such incidents.

 

[StephanieC]

Thought I’d pick up your positive spirit and share, as well:

At my parish last week, our pastor did a very nice job of explaining that we would resume the practice of bowing at the words, “…by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man” in the Nicene Creed.

That is a practice that my husband & I have always followed; I just really appreciated the way our pastor took care to explain why we would be resuming it as a parish.

 

[SentimentalGent]

The pastor at the church I attended this morning also bows (a 90 degree bow!!!). I always bow. It’s great that your pastor explained it. It’s in the rubrics and mentioned in missals. Some people just don’t know.

Now, can we also get people to bow their heads at the name of Jesus again — at least in church? Most priests don’t at Mass. How did we get away from all those wonderful practices?

God bless your pastor, Stephanie.

 

[Ray_Marshall]

SentimentalGent:

The pastor at the church I attended this morning also bows (a 90 degree bow!!!).

Approximately how old is that pastor?

It seems that a lot of younger priests are bringing back a lot of the old traditions.

Here in Minnesota, some priests have been quoted as saying that they will not work with young conservative priests.

I can’t even figure out what to say about that.

 

[SentimentalGent]

Ray Marshall:

Here in Minnesota, some priests have been quoted as saying that they will not work with young conservative priests.

I can’t even figure out what to say about that.

Just say that they’ll hopefully retire soon. I have a story about a local seminary that helps me understand why they turned out the way they did. Someday I tell that tale.

I’m not sure about how old the pastor is, but the diocesan directory says he was ordained in 1987, so he’s not part of the new batch of orthodox priests. There are a number of older priests in this area who are very orthodox, very spiritual, and who show that they’re here for the convenience of the Church, not the other way around.

 

[StephanieC]

I don’t know if age is the main factor. Look at Fr. Benedict Groeschel (sp?) – in his 70’s, I believe. I don’t know if there is a Catholic alive who could–after hearing him speak on the topic of reverence toward the Blessed Sacrament–enter a church & see the tabernacle candle lit without making a solemn genuflection & thinking, “I adore you O Christ and I praise you, in this church and all churches throughout the world, because by your holy cross you have redeemed the world!”

There are some newly ordained priests in my archdiocese who can honestly move me to tears when I observe the profound reverence they demonstrate in the beautiful way that they offer the Mass. I try to make an effort to tell them that, when possible.

The thing is, pastors need to take the time to thoughtfully explain why certain habits/behaviors are disrespectful, and why others are so important to bring back because they will undoubtedly lead us to a closer relationship to God when we mindfully observe them.

As much as I love & accept the Magesterium, I find that learning the history of the rubrics & practices only makes me love it more!

 

[katolik]

The ancient practice for the “Man became flesh” is to kneel, not to bow.

 

[shannon_e]

I’m still learning about when to bow. Rest assured, the why part of bowing is easy to come by . I don’t have it quite down yet, so I’m still somewhat self-conscious about it.

It must occur on a semi-sporadic basis around here.

I always bow before receiving Holy Communion-- at the Sunday Mass it’s not prevalent. At the daily Masses it’s much more common.

I would never want to give up kneeling. When I attended Mass before I could receive the Eucharist, making the switch from not kneeling to kneeling was a big symbollic turning point for me.

Peace.

 

[Detroit_Sue]

Ray Marshall:

Approximately how old is that pastor?

Here in Minnesota, some priests have been quoted as saying that they will not work with young conservative priests.

It’s the exact same way here.

 

[SentimentalGent]

StephanieC:

At my parish last week, our pastor did a very nice job of explaining that we would resume the practice of bowing at the words, “…by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man” in the Nicene Creed.

By the way, is that the new translation for the Nicene Creed that corrects the “He was born of the Virgin Mary” mistranslation?

Also, has anybody else noticed that ICEL is the worse translator on the planet? How many more revisions is the English-speaking Church going to tolerate before ICEL is canned and someone else does the correct translation from Latin to English the first time?

Glad I got that off my chest. I’m feeling much better now. :dancing:

 

[Franciscum]

SentimentalGent:

Sometimes it’s great to come across some good news and that there may be some hope for the Catholic Church in America.

I went to Mass this morning at a local church. It’s not my parish but it was just more convenient to attend this church in Girardville, Pennsylvania. St. Joseph Church, by name. Before Mass starts, the Angelus is prayed, along with a prayer for vocations. During the homily, which was excellent, the pastor mentioned about the recent work done to put the tabernacle back at the center altar. Praise be Jesus Christ!!! It was moved to the side many years ago, but is now back where it belongs. There was a special ceremony on Saturday officially blessing the move. The pastor mentioned that the sanctuary lamp was the only thing that needed to be placed in the sanctuary.

After Mass, I saw the pastor signing papers and church bulletins from children. I asked him about that and he said those were children who will be confirmed in the near future. As part of their being allowed to receive Confirmation, they need to show proof they’ve been going to Sunday (or Saturday Vigil) Mass. It’s great to know that the sacraments are being taken seriously here.

Like I said, a bright spot. May there be many more such incidents.

I have long wondered about the appropriateness of locating the tabernacle behind the altar on either a pedestal or another table (there is only one altar of sacrifice – no "center altar’ in today’s Catholic churches.)

It seems incongruent that a reader can read an epistle or a priest can proclaim the Gospel from the ambo with his back to Jesus Christ in the tabernacle. Makes no sense at all.

Likewise, it’s odd to consider that the celebrant turns his back on Jesus again when he is at the altar. Where should we be looking? At the altar with the priest, or past him to the tabernacle where Jesus Christ is reposed?

Once the Blessed Sacrament is confected at the altar, should we focus on Jesus there, or past the altar in the tabernacle?

How about the altar server who is on his knees watching the events on the altar, with his back squarely to Jesus Christ in the tabernacle? Again, it makes no sense.

Worse, how about those who must pass in front of the tabernacle during the Mass, and the instructions from the Church are not to genuflect or bow? I cringe just thinking about that – but that’s what the Church directs.

It certainly is no solution to place Jesus in a difficult-to-find broom-closet-like chapel or niche, but it does seem that the tabernacle clearly belongs in a small, dignified and centrally located chapel that is used precisely for that purpose – to repose the Son of God.

Otherwise, it was great to hear the wonderful things at the parish you visited…

 

[Annunciata]

Another Bright Moment….

My grandson was christened today…:clapping: such a beautiful ceremony! He didn’t even cry. Both of his siblings age 12 and 8 and I were incorporated into the liturgy performing the readings and Psalm response. (that was my part) Now my husband wants me to be a Lector… I don’t want to be…well at least I don’t think I do…

Anyway the Deacon was in charge of everything and I must say he did a marvelous job of explaining every aspect of Baptism. There were some “Luke warmers” there and they were really drinking it all in. I was very impressed. Annunciata

 

[StephanieC]

SentimentalGent:

By the way, is that the new translation for the Nicene Creed that corrects the “He was born of the Virgin Mary” mistranslation?

I haven’t heard about any mistranslations, or new translations of the Nicene Creed…could you be thinking of the Apostle’s Creed?

To the best of my knowledge, it’s:

“…born of the Virgin Mary…” --Apostle’s Creed;
“…became incarnate from the Virgin Mary…”–Nicene Creed.

Funny, when I was first becoming familiar with the Rosary a few years ago, I used to blend & mix them both something awful!

 

[SentimentalGent]

Congratulations, Annunciata. I lectored at one time and the only thing is that those sanctuaries get awfully hot in the summer for some reason.

Fransiscum, in most churches the tabernacles should never have been moved from their central location. That was an abuse done in “the spirit of Vatican II.” There are actually two issues here:

1. The consideration of moving the tabernacle to a side location was for larger churches where people coming through the church at different times might be a problem. One example I can use is the Cathedral of Sts. Peter and Paul in Philadelphia. The cathedral is open all day for people to tour the historic building, but it also is used by those who come in to spend some time before the tabernacle, which is to the side. A center location there could cause some difficulties for those wishing to meditate and pray. However, in the churches where I live, most are relatively small, holding not more than 1,000 people at a time (most much, much lower than that). Putting the tabernacle on the side is actually irrelevant since it’s usually only a few feet away from the main sanctuary anyway. But it is frustrating walking into a church I’m not that familiar with and wondering where the tabernacle is. It makes the most sense to have the tabernacle with Jesus in it in the center front of the church as the focus.
2. The other issue was not having the altar of sacrifice also as the altar of reservation. Having the altar table actually takes care of that without having to move the tabernacle from the center. As for having the priest and altar servers turned away from the tabernacle, that happened many times during the Tridentine Mass when the priest had to turn to face the people. And as for walking past the tabernacle during Mass (I’m assuming when receiving Holy Communion), at least half of the people attending Masses in the churches where I live still have to walk past the tabernacle on their way back to the pew. And in most of the churches I’m familiar with, anyone attending Mass usually has the main altar and the tabernacle in sight at the same time. What should they do? And when there is Eucharist Adoration with the host on the altar in the monstrance, but the reserved hosts in the tabernacle? I think you’re being a bit scrupulous here. Think about it : I’ve been to Masses that had six Communion stations, each with Jesus in the ciboriums, plus the tabernacle, plus any remnant of wine in the chalice on the main altar, which means it also contains Jesus. What are you focusing on then? God bless you that you’re so concerned. I wish others had so much faith in the Real Presence that they would at least bow before the tabernacle or receive Holy Communion without making it look like they’re taking a potato chip.

By the way, even though the back part of the sanctuary may not technically be an “altar” anymore, I grew up remembering it as the altar and still refer to them that way in memory of the thousands upon thousands of consecrations on them. One of those things you have to put up with an old fogey.

Take care and God bless, Franciscum. At Mass, focus on the altar. That’s where it’s happening. Other times, focus on the tabernacle, where Jesus always waits.

 

[Franciscum]

SentimentalGent:

Fransiscum, in most churches the tabernacles should never have been moved from their central location. That was an abuse done in “the spirit of Vatican II.” There are actually two issues here:

Not necessarily. The configuration of the sanctuary changed – namely the altar position with respect to the tabernacle. It’s not respectful to have one’s back to Jesus Christ reposed in the tabernacle. And then again, maybe the location of the tabernacle was never really optimal to begin with.

SentimentalGent:

1. The consideration of moving the tabernacle to a side location was for larger churches where people coming through the church at different times might be a problem. One example I can use is the Cathedral of Sts. Peter and Paul in Philadelphia. The cathedral is open all day for people to tour the historic building, but it also is used by those who come in to spend some time before the tabernacle, which is to the side. A center location there could cause some difficulties for those wishing to meditate and pray…

Again, no where does the Church suggest the movement was limited to large churches or cathedrals, athough in many cases such facilities do make use of such chapels.

I think it makes the most sense to place the tabernacle in a chapel dedicated to reposing the Most Blessed Sacrament, and not behind the altar where people will have their back to Jesus Christ.

SentimentalGent:

1. The other issue was not having the altar of sacrifice also as the altar of reservation. Having the altar table actually takes care of that without having to move the tabernacle from the center.

Pardon? One “altar”, no “altar table”, although “altar” is simply Latin for “table.”

SentimentalGent:

As for having the priest and altar servers turned away from the tabernacle, that happened many times during the Tridentine Mass when the priest had to turn to face the people. And as for walking past the tabernacle during Mass (I’m assuming when receiving Holy Communion), at least half of the people attending Masses in the churches where I live still have to walk past the tabernacle on their way back to the pew…

Maybe they should have had chapels dedicated to reposing the Most Blessed Sacrament from the very beginning?

SentimentalGent:

By the way, even though the back part of the sanctuary may not technically be an “altar” anymore, I grew up remembering it as the altar and still refer to them that way in memory of the thousands upon thousands of consecrations on them. One of those things you have to put up with an old fogey.

Nothing “technical” about it. There is one altar of sacrifice in Catholic churches.

SentimentalGent:

Take care and God bless, Franciscum. At Mass, focus on the altar. That’s where it’s happening. Other times, focus on the tabernacle, where Jesus always waits.

That’s not your call. Let’s hope more reverent chapels are built specifically to repose the Most Blessed Sacrament in the most glorious manner possible…

 

[Franciscum]

Annunciata:

Another Bright Moment….

My grandson was christened today…:clapping: such a beautiful ceremony! He didn’t even cry. Both of his siblings age 12 and 8 and I were incorporated into the liturgy performing the readings and Psalm response. (that was my part) Now my husband wants me to be a Lector… I don’t want to be…well at least I don’t think I do…

Anyway the Deacon was in charge of everything and I must say he did a marvelous job of explaining every aspect of Baptism. There were some “Luke warmers” there and they were really drinking it all in. I was very impressed. Annunciata

People are not “christened” in the Catholic Church.

Lectors must be males in the Catholic Church, although readers may be either male or female.

 

[Deacon2006]

I like the young conservative priests that expect the children to be active in church life prior to being confirmed. My SD is one of them.

God Bless

 

[Annunciata]

Franciscum:

People are not “christened” in the Catholic Church.

Lectors must be males in the Catholic Church, although readers may be either male or female.

Gee Fraciscum, thanks for taking the wind out of my sails…I was so honored to be a part of my grandson’s Christening/Baptism that I didn’t give it a second thought… Well now that you have sought to admonish me… I think I WILL become a LECTOR!!!
Will somebody please come forward and enlighten Franciscum that this is not true about lectors…the Christening thing I’m not sure about…but I’ve worked for the Church for many years and when in dialogue and referring to…lay and clergy alike have referred to the Baptism as both…
Annunciata

 

[Annunciata]

Annunciata:

Gee Fraciscum, thanks for taking the wind out of my sails…I was so honored to be a part of my grandson’s Christening/Baptism that I didn’t give it a second thought… Well now that you have sought to admonish me… I think I WILL become a LECTOR!!!
Will somebody please come forward and enlighten Franciscum that this is not true about lectors…the Christening thing I’m not sure about…but I’ve worked for the Church for many years and when in dialogue and referring to…lay and clergy alike have referred to the Baptism as both…
Annunciata

Franciscum, I stand corrected on the lector thingy…though I would still like to see it w/ my own eye. I have read the posts of another person I have great respect for and he does explain about being a Reader… You sound an awful lot like a “crusader” to me nitpicking never helps anyone…it only serves to hurt…IMO.

 

[Franciscum]

Annunciata:

Franciscum, I stand corrected on the lector thingy…though I would still like to see it w/ my own eye. I have read the posts of another person I have great respect for and he does explain about being a Reader… You sound an awful lot like a “crusader” to me nitpicking never helps anyone…it only serves to hurt…IMO.

It would be wonderful if all Catholics were better catechised.