A Call For Ammo

[jgda64]

Hello Everyone!

I was born and raised Catholic and am proud to have so remained to this point in my adult life. I attended 12 years of Catholic school before receiving a Bachelor’s Degree in Philosophy from a four year university. I have been blessed with an ability to critically analyze my beliefs and feel very strongly about my faith as a result.

For about a year now, I have been lucky enough to find love with the most beautiful and caring girl in the world. She is hard working, intelligent, and truly special. We compliment each other wonderfully and rarely fight. When we do have problems, however, it always centers on one topic, and this is where my “call” for ammo comes in.

My girlfriend is a very devout apostolic christian. I have read some of the posts here, and I believe it is also known as Pentecostal. Admittedly, I have not done much research on the major tenets of her faith. I have attended many services with her, and while I am not comfortable with everything that I have seen, I feel that it has strengthened my resolve in my own beliefs. At its core, it seems to me that we believe the same basic principles, while they simply manifest themselves in different ways through our respective worship ceremonies and celebrations. She, however, has made it known that she has some serious misgivings about some of the positions of Catholic Dogma and has made those problems known on occassion, most recently infant baptism.

Compounding this situation is the fact that her Father and Brother are co-pastors of her parish, so I believe “uphill battle” would be an accurate description of my position.

I truly love this girl and see this issue as the only hurdle between a long life together. My question would be, are there any sites or resources that would be best to look to so I can properly defend myself? Also, is it possible for this relationship to work?

I know that God never gives us more than we can handle, and I feel like two people who profess their love for, essentially, the same being should not be prevented from being together by some secular differences.

PLEASE HELP

 

[Madaglan]

Hello Everyone!

I was born and raised Catholic and am proud to have so remained to this point in my adult life. I attended 12 years of Catholic school before receiving a Bachelor’s Degree in Philosophy from a four year university. I have been blessed with an ability to critically analyze my beliefs and feel very strongly about my faith as a result.

For about a year now, I have been lucky enough to find love with the most beautiful and caring girl in the world. She is hard working, intelligent, and truly special. We compliment each other wonderfully and rarely fight. When we do have problems, however, it always centers on one topic, and this is where my “call” for ammo comes in.

My girlfriend is a very devout apostolic christian. I have read some of the posts here, and I believe it is also known as Pentecostal. Admittedly, I have not done much research on the major tenets of her faith. I have attended many services with her, and while I am not comfortable with everything that I have seen, I feel that it has strengthened my resolve in my own beliefs. At its core, it seems to me that we believe the same basic principles, while they simply manifest themselves in different ways through our respective worship ceremonies and celebrations. She, however, has made it known that she has some serious misgivings about some of the positions of Catholic Dogma and has made those problems known on occassion, most recently infant baptism.

Compounding this situation is the fact that her Father and Brother are co-pastors of her parish, so I believe “uphill battle” would be an accurate description of my position.

I truly love this girl and see this issue as the only hurdle between a long life together. My question would be, are there any sites or resources that would be best to look to so I can properly defend myself? Also, is it possible for this relationship to work?

I know that God never gives us more than we can handle, and I feel like two people who profess their love for, essentially, the same being should not be prevented from being together by some secular differences.

PLEASE HELP

You should take her to a charismatic Mass.

Any sites on Pentecostalism would help you. Pentecostalism is in several ways different from mainline Protestantism. Some Pentecostals emphasize tongues as mark of a true Christian.

 

[survive]

1937, Texas, Southern Baptist leaders meet to agree to wait and pray together and post each other for a huge revival; it doesn’t happen for them.
1906, Los Angeles, Methodist ministers and their congregations meet in an abandoned church in downtown LA on a street called Azusa for a revival. It lasts weeks. People experience gifts and miracles and increased faith. Baptist delegates go ask why they got the revival the Baptists had awaited for generations. The attendees work out what they have in common doctrinally; it’s pretty sparse. Methodists return to their leaders to ask about incorporating the Azusa revival into their teachings. The leaders aren’t interested. The Azusa people, Baptist and Methodist both, work out a new denomination, based on a simplified (thus easy to teach) broadly Evangelical ideology/theology, the belief that the end is very near, the belief that the Christian world needs constant renewal from scratch and to avoid accumulating traditions, the belief that miracles are common and the lack of them is a sign of weak faith, and the belief that church life and even other aspects of life should take the form of revivals,so that life is a long or repeated Pentecost experience. They call it Pentecostalism. It immediately breaks into Trinitarian and Nontrinitarian (Oneness) Pentecostalism. From there it splinters into lots of denominations, so that within a few decades there are too many to count and it’s still splintering. There are general movements and systems and there are umbrella denominations, which make many combinations, all easily confused but different.
Apostolic Pentecostals don’t believe in the Trinity. They are legalistic and have many appearance restrictions. It’s a quite authoritarian movement. They generally don’t consider people real Christians with a Trinitarian baptism. To Oneness Pentecostals, only a Jesus-Name baptism counts.

 

[De_Maria]

Hello Everyone!

I was born and raised Catholic and am proud to have so remained to this point in my adult life…

For about a year now, I have been lucky enough to find love with the most beautiful and caring girl in the world. She is hard working, intelligent, and truly special. We compliment each other wonderfully and rarely fight. When we do have problems, however, it always centers on one topic, and this is where my “call” for ammo comes in.

My girlfriend is a very devout apostolic christian. …
Compounding this situation is the fact that her Father and Brother are co-pastors of her parish, so I believe “uphill battle” would be an accurate description of my position. …

PLEASE HELP

Sure.

There are many apologetical websites on the Internet. I’ll list a few.

Since, Pentecostals are Bible only believers, you’ll have to get familiar with the Bible.

Here’s a Catholic website which specializes in producing Biblical proof of Catholic doctrine:
catholicapologetics.org/

Here’s another:
scripturecatholic.com/

Here’s an online Bible with search:
biblegateway.com/

Here’s a free Catholic Bible study. You might want to invite your girlfriend to join you in this:
archive.salvationhistory.com/index.cfm

If you have any further questions, I’m sure the Catholics here will be glad to help. If no one is paying attention, feel free to email me at DeMariaCatholic@lycos.com

Sometimes I’m away for a week at a time, but I’ll get back to you as soon as I can.

Remember that prayer is your most important weapon in this battle. I recommend the Daily Mass and the Rosary, in that order as the most perfect forms of prayer.

I hope that helps for starters.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Hello Everyone!

I was born and raised Catholic and am proud to have so remained to this point in my adult life. I attended 12 years of Catholic school before receiving a Bachelor’s Degree in Philosophy from a four year university. I have been blessed with an ability to critically analyze my beliefs and feel very strongly about my faith as a result.

For about a year now, I have been lucky enough to find love with the most beautiful and caring girl in the world. She is hard working, intelligent, and truly special. We compliment each other wonderfully and rarely fight. When we do have problems, however, it always centers on one topic, and this is where my “call” for ammo comes in.

My girlfriend is a very devout apostolic christian. I have read some of the posts here, and I believe it is also known as Pentecostal. Admittedly, I have not done much research on the major tenets of her faith. I have attended many services with her, and while I am not comfortable with everything that I have seen, I feel that it has strengthened my resolve in my own beliefs. At its core, it seems to me that we believe the same basic principles, while they simply manifest themselves in different ways through our respective worship ceremonies and celebrations. She, however, has made it known that she has some serious misgivings about some of the positions of Catholic Dogma and has made those problems known on occassion, most recently infant baptism.

Compounding this situation is the fact that her Father and Brother are co-pastors of her parish, so I believe “uphill battle” would be an accurate description of my position.

I truly love this girl and see this issue as the only hurdle between a long life together. My question would be, are there any sites or resources that would be best to look to so I can properly defend myself? Also, is it possible for this relationship to work?

I know that God never gives us more than we can handle, and I feel like two people who profess their love for, essentially, the same being should not be prevented from being together by some secular differences.

PLEASE HELP

Alex Jones is a former Pentecostal minister who converted to Catholicism.

He has at least one book explaining his conversion and I think you can here his story at EWTN.COM on the Journey Home archives.

 

[Eucharisted]

Hello Everyone!

I was born and raised Catholic and am proud to have so remained to this point in my adult life. I attended 12 years of Catholic school before receiving a Bachelor’s Degree in Philosophy from a four year university. I have been blessed with an ability to critically analyze my beliefs and feel very strongly about my faith as a result.

For about a year now, I have been lucky enough to find love with the most beautiful and caring girl in the world. She is hard working, intelligent, and truly special. We compliment each other wonderfully and rarely fight. When we do have problems, however, it always centers on one topic, and this is where my “call” for ammo comes in.

My girlfriend is a very devout apostolic christian. I have read some of the posts here, and I believe it is also known as Pentecostal. Admittedly, I have not done much research on the major tenets of her faith. I have attended many services with her, and while I am not comfortable with everything that I have seen, I feel that it has strengthened my resolve in my own beliefs. At its core, it seems to me that we believe the same basic principles, while they simply manifest themselves in different ways through our respective worship ceremonies and celebrations. She, however, has made it known that she has some serious misgivings about some of the positions of Catholic Dogma and has made those problems known on occassion, most recently infant baptism.

Compounding this situation is the fact that her Father and Brother are co-pastors of her parish, so I believe “uphill battle” would be an accurate description of my position.

I truly love this girl and see this issue as the only hurdle between a long life together. My question would be, are there any sites or resources that would be best to look to so I can properly defend myself? Also, is it possible for this relationship to work?

I know that God never gives us more than we can handle, and I feel like two people who profess their love for, essentially, the same being should not be prevented from being together by some secular differences.

PLEASE HELP

Don’t battle her, love her. Even if she yells at you or accuses the Church of things, don’t battle her. You’ll win her over with charity and prayer sooner than you will with fights and defenses. Think of Jesus, how He was silent outwardly when accused and tried of many things, but inwardly He was praying for those accusing and trying Him. Imitate Him.

If you want to do inter-religious dialogue, it is a good idea to start with similarities of faith, than speak about your differences in a charitable manner, listening and understanding one another. This would also help your communication and bonding, both of which are essential to any relationship. But God may not be calling you to dialogue. Pray on it and trust in Him.

If you wish to deepen your knowledge of Christ, I recommend the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Church Fathers.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Hello Everyone!

I was born and raised Catholic and am proud to have so remained to this point in my adult life. I attended 12 years of Catholic school before receiving a Bachelor’s Degree in Philosophy from a four year university. I have been blessed with an ability to critically analyze my beliefs and feel very strongly about my faith as a result.

For about a year now, I have been lucky enough to find love with the most beautiful and caring girl in the world. She is hard working, intelligent, and truly special. We compliment each other wonderfully and rarely fight. When we do have problems, however, it always centers on one topic, and this is where my “call” for ammo comes in.

My girlfriend is a very devout apostolic christian. I have read some of the posts here, and I believe it is also known as Pentecostal. Admittedly, I have not done much research on the major tenets of her faith. I have attended many services with her, and while I am not comfortable with everything that I have seen, I feel that it has strengthened my resolve in my own beliefs. At its core, it seems to me that we believe the same basic principles, while they simply manifest themselves in different ways through our respective worship ceremonies and celebrations. She, however, has made it known that she has some serious misgivings about some of the positions of Catholic Dogma and has made those problems known on occassion, most recently infant baptism.

Compounding this situation is the fact that her Father and Brother are co-pastors of her parish, so I believe “uphill battle” would be an accurate description of my position.

I truly love this girl and see this issue as the only hurdle between a long life together. My question would be, are there any sites or resources that would be best to look to so I can properly defend myself? Also, is it possible for this relationship to work?

I know that God never gives us more than we can handle, and I feel like two people who profess their love for, essentially, the same being should not be prevented from being together by some secular differences.

PLEASE HELP

Here are hundreds of conversion stories from the Journey Home.

You can scan through the list and find many pentecostals or similar denominations.

ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-6892289&T1=journey+home

 

[ufamtobie]

Hello Everyone!

I was born and raised Catholic and am proud to have so remained to this point in my adult life. I attended 12 years of Catholic school before receiving a Bachelor’s Degree in Philosophy from a four year university. I have been blessed with an ability to critically analyze my beliefs and feel very strongly about my faith as a result.

For about a year now, I have been lucky enough to find love with the most beautiful and caring girl in the world. She is hard working, intelligent, and truly special. We compliment each other wonderfully and rarely fight. When we do have problems, however, it always centers on one topic, and this is where my “call” for ammo comes in.

My girlfriend is a very devout apostolic christian. I have read some of the posts here, and I believe it is also known as Pentecostal. Admittedly, I have not done much research on the major tenets of her faith. I have attended many services with her, and while I am not comfortable with everything that I have seen, I feel that it has strengthened my resolve in my own beliefs. At its core, it seems to me that we believe the same basic principles, while they simply manifest themselves in different ways through our respective worship ceremonies and celebrations. She, however, has made it known that she has some serious misgivings about some of the positions of Catholic Dogma and has made those problems known on occassion, most recently infant baptism.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Check out the free tapes, CDs, and Mp3 downloads you can find here: biblechristiansociety.com/

I’ve found the talk entitled “Apologetics for the Scripturally Challenged” the most helpful. It discusses techniques and strategies for engaging in the kind of conversation you seem to want to have with your girlfriend. There is also a talk on Infant Baptism.

Hope this helps!

 

[Detales]

Dear '64,

I was in a similar situation with my wife. It precipitated the biggest argument in our marriage and I feel it planted the seed of its dissolution. It also involved, for me, the touted value of critical analysis. I strongly recommend that you resolve this question in a very mutually satisfacty way, or you are asking for deep trouble, whatever your emotions are telling you.

I feel that your emotional or love feeling for this woman is the correct basis for a relationship. However, we, being human, ascribe the source and way of our Being differently by way of intellect. The glue of emotional devotion to a historically developed dogma, unfortunately, can superceed the deeper significance of the roots of actual Love. This is true for both of you, and that is a consideration in my opinion that cannot be overstated, or not easily.

You frame your question in terms of “ammo” and “battle,” so off the bat you confess an adversarial position. You have a purported defensible position and want to get aggresive about it in order to win territory, though that territory is in the province of the heart. You have indeed chosen a contentious and turbulent arena in which to wage a campaign.

You may wish to decide if you want to win or if you want to come to a mutually workable agreement. If you want to win, go ahead and get your ammo, and you will surely lose everything. If you wish to come to a workable agreement, each of you will have to go deeper than dogma.

One of the most dangereous obstacles here is to hold that your respective particular ways are “right.” Of course, being a cradle Roman Catholic, that is about the last thing you are likely to question. Therefore this line of action may bring you to the toughest choice you will ever make. As one man said “The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings, for it destroys the world in which you live.” This is because the “reality,” especialy such things as birth religion, are aquired and emotionally validated by the adamantine process of habituation. You will be your emotional attachment to your dogma come hell or high water. So will she. That is unless you both take off at right angles to everything and conduct your own search for truth. You can’t do this with ammo against her stand, as that already presupposes an adversarial relationship, whereas Marriage might rightfully be entered as an affirmation of Unity.

You may do the mining of Inquiry together and find the work of of refining the ore it yields to be your bond, for that activity reaches a deeper reality than either of your dogmatic attachments to teachings on a contentious subject.

I say contentious, because in critical analysis, it might be possible to view the issue of baptism in at least three ways. The first is uncritical acceptance of your current stance. The second is that both of you have to come to accept the way of the other and live with such emotional and evaluative consequences as may drive you apart. The third and most difficult is to consider that baptism has a deeper and more original meaning and function than either of you credit it with by dogmatic adherence and posturing. The persuing and the discovery of that meaning can yield the greatest treasure, but may bring with it the unfortunate fate of the awakened: you will no longer be popular with the uncritical adherants to ordinary dogma, despite what can be a quantum leap in understanding on your part.

What I’m saying is that the ammo you might need is in the quale of self examination on both your parts, rather than of persuasion. Such “am?-OH!” is abundantly available, but usually rendered invisible by the blinders of habitual belief.

May the Perpetual Light shine upon you both, and render you transparent to each other and to the Love that brings you together.

Signed

Bindar Dundat (heh, heh)

 

[reteeks21]

Take heart! From what I’ve seen and read a great deal of people “swimming the Tiber” are Pentecostals. There’s always hope for you!

 

[fireforgedxtian]

It’s not accurate to say that there are similarities in belief between catholics and pentecostals, but there are some underlying similarities in the motivation for and views of practice (at least in the variety of pentecostalism I was raised in).

Pentecostals, generally speaking, believe that they experience the presence of God (specifically God the Spirit) through ecstatic experiences (e.g., holy laughter, being “slain in the spirit”, speaking in tongues, etc). With this in mind, you might find a biblical argument for the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist to be effective.

Once again generally speaking, some Pentecostals place a particularly high value on “spiritual authority.” This is rarely stated in such explicit terms, but they often consider their church leadership to have positions of absolute authority over their congregants. Thus, discussions on Apostolic Succession (demonstrating an actual connection to a biblical source for authority - as opposed to a man hearing voices on his own) might prove fruitful. Depending on the individual, they might even consider their spiritual leadership to have some sort of special connection to God – if this is the case, then bring up the sacerdotal nature of the priesthood.

It’s hopefully obvious that these are very, very broad strokes. I’ve simply brought them up as possible points of convergence (this is probably too strong a word) between pentecostal supposition and Catholic doctrine.

If, however, your girlfriend is a “oneness” pentecostal, then you’ll have a much harder time. She will have been brought up to view trinitarianism as heresy, and her path to conversion might be closer to that of a Jehovah’s Witness…

 

[JRKH]

Don’t battle her, love her. Even if she yells at you or accuses the Church of things, don’t battle her. You’ll win her over with charity and prayer sooner than you will with fights and defenses. Think of Jesus, how He was silent outwardly when accused and tried of many things, but inwardly He was praying for those accusing and trying Him. Imitate Him.

If you want to do inter-religious dialogue, it is a good idea to start with similarities of faith, than speak about your differences in a charitable manner, listening and understanding one another. This would also help your communication and bonding, both of which are essential to any relationship. But God may not be calling you to dialogue. Pray on it and trust in Him.

If you wish to deepen your knowledge of Christ, I recommend the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Church Fathers.

This is certainly good advise, perhaps the best. According to your OP, you have manifested a guarded admiration for aspects of her pentacostal beliefs. See if she is willing to demonstrate the same for your beliefs. If so, then you have a basis for discussion, if not, then - well - this could be a real obsticle to marriage, particularly where children would be involved.
If she is willing to listen to explanations of Church beliefs, practices, and dogmas then begin to gently deconstruct her misconceptions of Catholicism. Use the CCC as well as the Bible liberally so that she is presented with the actual and official Church teachings and not things she has heard from non official sources.
Most of all, and in all things remain calm, but fimr in your resolve to live your faith, and to explain to her what she needs to know.
Finally and MOST important. PRAY - PRAY - PRAY for God’s guidance in this.

Peace
James

 

[yellowbird]

Compounding this situation is the fact that her Father and Brother are co-pastors of her parish, so I believe “uphill battle” would be an accurate description of my position.

I truly love this girl and see this issue as the only hurdle between a long life together. My question would be, are there any sites or resources that would be best to look to so I can properly defend myself? Also, is it possible for this relationship to work?

I know that God never gives us more than we can handle, and I feel like two people who profess their love for, essentially, the same being should not be prevented from being together by some secular differences.

PLEASE HELP

I think “uphill battle” is a good description. Not only will she need to come to terms with infant baptism, she will need to agree to allow you to raise your children Catholic… Holy Trinity, Eucharist, Mary, Priests, Confession, Holy Days of Obligation… the list of things she needs to be OK with, not just for you but for her children is a mile long yikes… that is one HUGE hill she will need to climb over. It is one thing for you and her to disagree about certain topics… it’s quite another for her to allow her children to be led down a path she totally disagress with.

Can it work? I suppose… nothing is impossible with God - but it’s something that would need to be worked out before you talk of marriage because that big old hill is not going anywhere.

 

[Publisher]

Careful about how you use your “ammo”…you may wound this wonderful woman you love and do yourself violence in the process.

 

[Ruthie]

The best “ammo” for infant baptism doesn’t come from the Biblical occurrences of families being baptized, because “could have” doesn’t mean “were.”

It comes from baptism being a sacrament needed for salvation. Mk 16:16, Ac 2:38, Ac 22:16, 1 Peter 3:21.

It is a natural development that parents would want their dear babies to be saved by the Sacrament of baptism, especially in an age when so many babies did not live to grow up.

Hope this helps, and God bless you,

Ruthie