a-call-for-ecuminical-dialogue-between-catholics-and-protestants

[PRmerger]

Believe me, I do not want to get kicked off this site.

I suggest you follow the model of some non-Catholic Christians that have been here a while. See how they post, what posture they assume, the language they embrace, and if you follow their model, you can’t go wrong.

Examples: CMatt25, JonNC, benjohnson, Anna Scott, IggyAntiochus, Jock_VT, Truthstalker, Portofino.

 

[PRmerger]

Here is a safe site with some anti-Catholic statements from the WCF. It does not have some of the more offensive anti-Catholic language in the WCF in the article. There are revised versions of the WCF which removes some of this language.

oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Protestant_Confessions_of_Faith

Again, nothing anti-Catholic on that site.

Regardless, I find your claim to have an inability to discern what’s an anti-Catholic website to be disingenuous.

whatshouldwecallme.tumblr.com/post/32838114425/when-my-ex-pretends-like-he-doesnt-miss-me

Really, CU? You don’t know what sites not to post here that are hostile to Catholicism?

 

[Christian_Unity]

I suggest you follow the model of some non-Catholic Christians that have been here a while. See how they post, what posture they assume, the language they embrace, and if you follow their model, you can’t go wrong.

Examples: CMatt25, JonNC, benjohnson, Anna Scott, IggyAntiochus, Jock_VT, Truthstalker, Portofino.

:hey_bud:

Thanks for the guidance. I think I will reduce my participation on here for awhile, and post when I really need help on understanding the Catholic Faith. This site doesn’t seem the best place to push for Christian unity between Catholics and Protestants. I want thank those who seem want an honest discussion regarding our differences and similarities. I can understand those who were very suspious and put on a staunch defense of the Catholic Faith too. - Peace and grace to all.

 

[PRmerger]

:hey_bud:

Thanks for the guidance. I think I will reduce my participation on here for awhile, and post when I really need help on understanding the Catholic Faith. This site doesn’t seem the best place to push for Christian unity between Catholics and Protestants. I want thank those who seem want an honest discussion regarding our differences and similarities. I can understand those who were very suspious and put on a staunch defense of the Catholic Faith too. - Peace and grace to all.

Not sure why you feel you can’t dialogue, while all those others can.

But good luck to you in your faith journey.

 

[JonNC]

I suggest you follow the model of some non-Catholic Christians that have been here a while. See how they post, what posture they assume, the language they embrace, and if you follow their model, you can’t go wrong.

Examples: CMatt25, JonNC, benjohnson, Anna Scott, IggyAntiochus, Jock_VT, Truthstalker, Portofino.

Probably more kind than I deserve.

Thank you, sincerely.

Jon

 

[PRmerger]

Probably more kind than I deserve.

Thank you, sincerely.

Jon

Oh, p-shaw, Jon. P-shaw. shaw:

 

[Eufrosnia]

Let’s just keep this an open thread to discuss anything that you would like. First of all, we are all siblings in Christ who have the same Heavenly Father. Would you agree with that statement?

Why don’t we discuss how a Protestant goes from accepting Christ as a special person to giving assent to teachings like “Bible is the word of God” or “Jesus is the son of God” or “five Solas” or “Holy Spirit guides me to the truth” .etc?

I honestly think that the other religions and Protestant vs. Catholic problem lies not in theology. It lies on whether people are willing to really question their reasons for their beliefs. If there is no reasons to think the precepts you accept are from God or the person you assent to has any clue regarding transcendent matters, that religion itself is bogus.

It might have truths in it. But the religion itself is not worthy of assent.

To put it this way, I might say that Joe has a heart condition. Now I am not a doctor and lets say I don’t even have a formal education. Is Joe reasonable in giving assent to my claim? NO! Lets now say that there is a Doctor who claims that Joe is perfectly healthy. Is Joe reasonable in assenting to my claim over the Doctor? NO! NO! NO!

Same applies to religions. Protestantism and all other non-Catholic religions are listening to the bum without a formal education when the Doctor is in the Church

 

[JonNC]

=Eufrosnia;10110376]Why don’t we discuss how a Protestant goes from accepting Christ as a special person to giving assent to teachings like “Bible is the word of God” or “Jesus is the son of God” or “five Solas” or “Holy Spirit guides me to the truth” .etc?

Huh?

I honestly think that the other religions and Protestant vs. Catholic problem lies not in theology.

Of course it does. Well, doctrine.

It lies on whether people are willing to really question their reasons for their beliefs.

I do everyday.

If there is no reasons to think the precepts you accept are from God or the person you assent to has any clue regarding transcendent matters, that religion itself is bogus.

Other than Christ, who is the person we “assent to”?

It might have truths in it. But the religion itself is not worthy of assent.

You’re not saying Christianity sin’t worthy of assent, are you?

To put it this way, I might say that Joe has a heart condition. Now I am not a doctor and lets say I don’t even have a formal education. Is Joe reasonable in giving assent to my claim? NO! Lets now say that there is a Doctor who claims that Joe is perfectly healthy. Is Joe reasonable in assenting to my claim over the Doctor? NO! NO! NO!

Same applies to religions. Protestantism and all other non-Catholic religions are listening to the bum without a formal education when the Doctor is in the Church

Huh?

Jon

 

[CopticChristian]

:hey_bud:

Thanks for the guidance. I think I will reduce my participation on here for awhile, and post when I really need help on understanding the Catholic Faith. This site doesn’t seem the best place to push for Christian unity between Catholics and Protestants. I want thank those who seem want an honest discussion regarding our differences and similarities. I can understand those who were very suspious and put on a staunch defense of the Catholic Faith too. - Peace and grace to all.

CU,

I ask you to reflect. List the posts that you have started…

Forensic Justification - what’s your view about it? Since this is a Catholic Forum site, please explain why this Protestant view is incorrect.

I would be very interested in a discussion on the sovereignty of God. I’m sure we would all be challenged on this topic which should help us grow in our trust in God in all cirumbstances in our lives

.

I’ve been to various Protestant churches…some discourage drinking, others prohibit it, and still others have no problem with it. I believe Catholics drink just like me. Since marijuana is now legal in Washington and Colorado, and medical marijuana is legal in many states, what do you believe about drinking and smoking pot?

Let’s try again to have a mutual respectful discussion about our similarities and differences for the purpose of positive movement toward Christian unity. I don’t think Catholic or Protestant apologetics impresses anyone on this site; therefore, let’s all try to refrain from posting apologetics which shuts down open and honest discussions. Instead, let’s have an honest respect discussion between Christian siblings who have the same Heavenly Father.

Now, what I have seen in your postings in these threads is justification for what you believe with an attempt to engage in dialogue that challenges as to why others would not accept this as true. I have asked questions and you have ignored them. This is a CAF as Guanaphore has pointed out, an apologetic website…I am not sure what it is you expect…I tried to make it simple and you have yet to answer a simple question…

Have you read Moby Dick?

 

[Eufrosnia]

Huh?

Of course it does. Well, doctrine.

I do everyday.

Other than Christ, who is the person we “assent to”?

You’re not saying Christianity sin’t worthy of assent, are you?

Huh?

Jon

I would like to reply Jon, but I honestly don’t know if you are asking anything. Could you clarify what bugged you about my reply?

 

[Christian_Unity]

CU,

I ask you to reflect. List the posts that you have started…

.

Now, what I have seen in your postings in these threads is justification for what you believe with an attempt to engage in dialogue that challenges as to why others would not accept this as true. I have asked questions and you have ignored them. This is a CAF as Guanaphore has pointed out, an apologetic website…I am not sure what it is you expect…I tried to make it simple and you have yet to answer a simple question…

Have you read Moby Dick?

You guys are welcome to join me on Christian Fellowship on Facebook to continue whatever you would like to discuss. That site is netural for Catholics and Protestants alike. As you correctly stated, this is a Catholic aplogetics Forum site. I was hoping for a more open and honest discussion between siblings in Christ. There are way too many personalities on here to have a good on-going discussion. In addition, it’s difficult to have to worry about adding links that may offend Catholics on here. What would you expect from a Protestant perspective in those links, or from historic Protestant confessionals?

:hey_bud:

May we glory God in all that we do. IMO… Heaven will not consists of Catholics or Protestants because we will simply be Christians. There is only one body and one faith (Ephesians 4).

 

[CopticChristian]

You guys are welcome to join me on Christian Fellowship on Facebook to continue whatever you would like to discuss. That site is netural for Catholics and Protestants alike. As you correctly stated, this is a Catholic aplogetics Forum site.** I was hoping for a more open and honest discussion between siblings in Christ. ** There are way too many personalities on here to have a good on-going discussion. In addition, it’s difficult to have to worry about adding links that may offend Catholics on here. What would you expect from a Protestant perspective in those links, or from historic Protestant confessionals?

:hey_bud:

May we glory God in all that we do. IMO… Heaven will not consists of Catholics or Protestants because we will simply be Christians. There is only one body and one faith (Ephesians 4).

CU,

So you found dishonesty and lack of openness, thank you…

 

[JonNC]

I would like to reply Jon, but I honestly don’t know if you are asking anything. Could you clarify what bugged you about my reply?

Nothing bugged me. The “huh?” means I don’t understanding what you are saying. Please clarify.

Jon

 

[Eufrosnia]

Nothing bugged me. The “huh?” means I don’t understanding what you are saying. Please clarify.

Jon

I am not sure which part?

My point was that all non-Catholic religions cannot appeal to a reasonable assent. Hence it is arbitrary. This does include non-Catholic forms of Christianity. In fact, it was a core position of the Protestant faith.

To elaborate, Protestants actually accepted a position that there was no reason to assent to faith. Hence, the usual Protestant evangelization techniques appealed to emotions. One would say “have you had a personal experience of Christ?”. Ironically, even if one does have a personal experience with Christ, it still is not clear as to why one should assent to rest of the doctrine or theological framework of protestantism. There is, simply put, no valid reason to think it from God. To understand the gravity of this error, even essential questions such as “Was Christ divine when he spoke before death?” are unclear in such a framework.

But this is of course not just Protestantism. Every other religion in the world manages this illusion quiet well. Partly the reason for this is that it feeds the human longing that searches for the transcendent. It is easy to scam people because humans cannot see the Transcendent. So there are many scams (aka religions) on this planet apart from the true one (Catholic).

Now if you will be more specific as to what bothers you, I can maybe better articulate my position to you.

 

[JonNC]

=Eufrosnia;10111010]I am not sure which part?

My point was that all non-Catholic religions cannot appeal to a reasonable assent. Hence it is arbitrary. This does include non-Catholic forms of Christianity. In fact, it was a core position of the Protestant faith.

In all my reading of the Book of Concord (the Lutheran Confessions), the last word to come to my mind was “arbitrary”.

To elaborate, Protestants actually accepted a position that there was no reason to assent to faith. Hence, the usual Protestant evangelization techniques appealed to emotions. One would say “have you had a personal experience of Christ?”. Ironically, even if one does have a personal experience with Christ, it still is not clear as to why one should assent to rest of the doctrine or theological framework of protestantism. There is, simply put, no valid reason to think it from God.

You’re speaking of protestantism as a monolith. Perhaps it might help me if you specified which communin you’re referring to. Lutherans, as a rule, have never been confused with the emotionalist-types.

To understand the gravity of this error, even essential questions such as “Was Christ divine when he spoke before death?” are unclear in such a framework.

Really? * In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God, and the Word was God.*
I was always taught this was a matter of doctrine - back to scripture and the early councils.

But this is of course not just Protestantism. Every other religion in the world manages this illusion quiet well. Partly the reason for this is that it feeds the human longing that searches for the transcendent. It is easy to scam people because humans cannot see the Transcendent. So there are many scams (aka religions) on this planet apart from the true one (Catholic).

Oh, ok. I think I now see. You’re coming from a triumphalist position?
How 'bout them Orthodox scam artists.

Now if you will be more specific as to what bothers you, I can maybe better articulate my position to you.

Nope. I think I understand your position.

Peace,
Jon

 

[joe370]

As a convert I love this thread We all need each other- the divide is no longer I believe Catholic versus Protestant but Christians all over versus secular materialism, atheism, new age thought and many others things counter to Christ in our world. All believers on fire for the faith and radically in love with the person of Jesus Christ and who are following Him need to stand as one and however we get there works for me! I actually spent time in prayer today for Christian unity- this thread hits the spot

Blessings,

Val

Well said. Man, is difficult discussing religious ideas, Christian teachings etc, with most atheists.

 

[Eufrosnia]

In all my reading of the Book of Concord (the Lutheran Confessions), the last word to come to my mind was “arbitrary”.

You are very correct. That is because you never asked the first question (or was never encouraged to ask the first question) i.e. Why give assent to the Book of Concord to begin with.

You’re speaking of protestantism as a monolith. Perhaps it might help me if you specified which communin you’re referring to. Lutherans, as a rule, have never been confused with the emotionalist-types.

I am referring to entire Protestantism in so far as it rejects the Catholic Church.

The point here is that Protestantism has no grounds. In other words, think of it this way. If I was a non believer checking different religions and I met you. How would you convince me that you have God’s word or knowledge regarding the transcendent?

Here I specifically mean convincing me logically as opposed to telling me to read a book that may or may not be inspired by God as far as I would be concerned as a non-believer.

Really? * In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God, and the Word was God.*
I was always taught this was a matter of doctrine - back to scripture and the early councils.

Very good example of what I was speaking of. The issue here is that no one needs to give assent to Councils unless you can give reason to do so. In the same token, no one needs to give assent to Scripture until it can be shown/or given reason to accept it to be God’s word.

I
Oh, ok. I think I now see. You’re coming from a triumphalist position?
How 'bout them Orthodox scam artists.

Well, Orthodox are actually a special group. But historically speaking, they do not have a reasonable case to support their position regarding Rome. But other than that, they are fine as it can get outside the Catholic Church.

If you have been paying attention to Orthodox developments, you should know that seams are slowly starting to show. Patriarchs are divided on moral issues such as contraception for an example. Divorce is allowed (since long time ago).

But that is more of an issue of conduct. Otherwise, Orthodox are pretty much Catholic.

I
Nope. I think I understand your position.

Ok.

 

[JonNC]

=Eufrosnia;10111096]You are very correct. That is because you never asked the first question (or was never encouraged to ask the first question) i.e. Why give assent to the Book of Concord to begin with.

Ok, I’ll bite, only because I’m the curious type. Why give assent to the Magisterium?

Jon

 

[Anthony_V]

I am not sure which part?

My point was that all non-Catholic religions cannot appeal to a reasonable assent. Hence it is arbitrary. This does include non-Catholic forms of Christianity. In fact, it was a core position of the Protestant faith.

To elaborate, Protestants actually accepted a position that there was no reason to assent to faith. Hence, the usual Protestant evangelization techniques appealed to emotions. One would say “have you had a personal experience of Christ?”. Ironically, even if one does have a personal experience with Christ, it still is not clear as to why one should assent to rest of the doctrine or theological framework of protestantism. There is, simply put, no valid reason to think it from God. To understand the gravity of this error, even essential questions such as “Was Christ divine when he spoke before death?” are unclear in such a framework.

But this is of course not just Protestantism. Every other religion in the world manages this illusion quiet well. Partly the reason for this is that it feeds the human longing that searches for the transcendent. It is easy to scam people because humans cannot see the Transcendent. So there are many scams (aka religions) on this planet apart from the true one (Catholic).

Now if you will be more specific as to what bothers you, I can maybe better articulate my position to you.

Firstly, I invoke the disclaimer at the bottom of my signature.
Second, I think it’s naive to assert that all Protestants are ignorant. Karl Barth, one of the most important theologians of the 20th century (next to Henri DeLubac) was a Reformed theologian–one that even Pope Pius XII acclaimed. Theological systems are ultimately the point of contention, not the moral-intellectual character of a person (although there is some of that, too).

 

[Eufrosnia]

Ok, I’ll bite, only because I’m the curious type. Why give assent to the Magisterium?

Jon

Well, before we proceed, there is something very important that you need to understand. If Protestantism has no reason and it does turn out that there is no reason to assent to the Magisterium as well, then it does not mean you can remain Protestant. Do you realize that?

You and I will simply have to start searching for the truth.