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jmcrae
Guest
Right, which is supposed to be your free ticket to Heaven, right?
Yes. If you “get saved” it means that you are going to go to Heaven.
This is the Catholic teaching, yes. Are you saying that you agree with this, or are you contrasting your belief with the Catholic belief?
Except if you sin. Then you lose Him. To “go to Heaven” is to be with Jesus forever.
Jesus is God.
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rev_kevin
Guest
There is no free ticket to heaven.Right, which is supposed to be your free ticket to Heaven, right?
Yes. If you “get saved” it means that you are going to go to Heaven.
This is the Catholic teaching, yes. Are you saying that you agree with this, or are you contrasting your belief with the Catholic belief?
Except if you sin. Then you lose Him. To “go to Heaven” is to be with Jesus forever.
Jesus is God.
If you accept God’s gift of salvation.
Let me put it this way, if you sin and do not repent you may not go to heaven.
You may loose the gift of salvation.
Yes we all know Jesus is God and God is the Holy Spirit, they are the Trinity.
J
jmcrae
Guest
All of this is the Catholic teaching.
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rev_kevin
Guest
And the Catholics say we are not all one.All of this is the Catholic teaching.
T
Third_Day
Guest
Welcome back to the Catholic Church Rev. Kevin. According to what you posted above you can no longer call yourself a Baptist.
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Xavierlives
Guest
Hmmm… I am going to be honest here Rev Kev, I don’t think I understand your point yet.
So, let me ask some questions to try to figure this out.
- When I accept Christ I am saved, but do not necessarily have salvation?
- I do not have salvation because I have not died and have not been resurrected?
- I can lose Salvation (heaven) through backsliding, but never being saved?
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GodLovesTheSpek
Guest
Let’s see, OSAS, then “near guarantee”, then OSAS (unless it’s Blasphemy).
Is someone adding or taking away from The Word? I lived in a section of the country with very few Catholics and dozens of churches each with their own interpretation of scripture. I accept them as Christian.
Is someone adding or taking away from The Word? I lived in a section of the country with very few Catholics and dozens of churches each with their own interpretation of scripture. I accept them as Christian.
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SHW
Guest
Howdy Rev Kevin,
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
Follow means to imitate 1 Corinthians 11:1, 1 Peter 2:20-24 Christ’s obedience to His Father’s Will which includes obeying/keeping His commandments until death. Hebrews 5:9, John 5:30, Romans 6:16, Philippians 2:8
We must be obedient to God’s commandments Matthew 28:18-20 and do His Father’s Will until our deaths Matthew 7:20-24 in order to have the right to the Tree of Life (eternal life).
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
If we do not obey His commandments until death, then we will incur God’s wrath after death.
2 Thessalonians 1:8
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
**The Father gave to His Son only those persons whom He knew would be faithful until their deaths. ** He used His foreknowledge in order to do this. He predestined only those persons whom He knew would die with sanctifying grace on their souls (the Holy Spirit of Grace abiding within their temples/souls at the time of their deaths 1 Corinthians 3:16-18). This is also why no one can snatch them out of His hand. They did not ever get placed into His hand unless they would still be found faithful 1 Corinthians 4:2 at the time of their deaths (endure to the end of their lives in obedience to Christ’s gospel/commands Matthew 24:12-13, 1 John 2:3-5, Revelation 2:2-3).
If, according to God’s foreknowledge before the foundation of the world, a person obeyed Christ’s commands until his death, then he was placed into Christ’s hand and no one can ever snatch him out of Christ’s hand. However, if, according to God’s foreknowledge, the person only followed/obeyed for awhile Matthew 13:18-23, but was not found still following Him at his death, then this person was never ever placed into Christ’s hand at all.
1 Peter 1:1-2
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Peter is assuming that these persons whom he is writing to are God’s elect. But, only God knows who is saved and who is not. Persons were elected because of/according to God’s foreknowledge of their own free will choices for their entire lives Joshua 24:15, Romans 6:16, 2 Peter 1:1-11. Peter is encouraging them to continue following Christ’s gospel of obedience to His Father’s Will Acts 14:22.
Romans 8:29
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
to be continued…
S
SHW
Guest
Continued:
Before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4, God already knew by His foreknowledge which persons (that He would later create) would be saved and also enter eternal life and which persons would not be saved and would not enter eternal life. Many persons who become saved lose their salvation later because they do not obey God’s commandments and they also do not repent before their deaths 2 Peter 2:20-22.
On Judgment Day, God will only “know” the people whom He has predestined. He will “not know” any of the persons who died as sons of disobedience Luke 13:23-28.
Ephesians 5:5-7
For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Paul is warning these “saved” persons that if they do these things, then they will become sons of disobedience and so they will no longer be saved and they will incur the wrath of God. In other words, they lose their inheritance and they do not enter into eternal life if they do not obey God’s commandments until they die.
God knew before the foundation of the world which persons’ names would still be written in the Book of Life on Judgment Day.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 22:19
and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Peoples’ names can first be written in the Book of Life (saved) and then later be removed from the Book of Life (not saved).
It is the state of a person’s soul at the time of his death which determines his eternal abode: heaven or hell.
This is why Peter warns the faithful:
1 Peter 5:8-9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary** the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour**. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.
If a person sins “sin leading to death” 1 John 5:16-17, James 5:19-20, then Satan devours him and he now belongs to Satan. He is now Satan’s slave (son of disobedience) Romans 6:16 and he is no longer a son of righteousness Ezekiel 33:11-13.
OSAS is not Scriptural. It is a man-made doctrine.
Before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4, God already knew by His foreknowledge which persons (that He would later create) would be saved and also enter eternal life and which persons would not be saved and would not enter eternal life. Many persons who become saved lose their salvation later because they do not obey God’s commandments and they also do not repent before their deaths 2 Peter 2:20-22.
On Judgment Day, God will only “know” the people whom He has predestined. He will “not know” any of the persons who died as sons of disobedience Luke 13:23-28.
Ephesians 5:5-7
For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Paul is warning these “saved” persons that if they do these things, then they will become sons of disobedience and so they will no longer be saved and they will incur the wrath of God. In other words, they lose their inheritance and they do not enter into eternal life if they do not obey God’s commandments until they die.
God knew before the foundation of the world which persons’ names would still be written in the Book of Life on Judgment Day.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 22:19
and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Peoples’ names can first be written in the Book of Life (saved) and then later be removed from the Book of Life (not saved).
It is the state of a person’s soul at the time of his death which determines his eternal abode: heaven or hell.
This is why Peter warns the faithful:
1 Peter 5:8-9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary** the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour**. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.
If a person sins “sin leading to death” 1 John 5:16-17, James 5:19-20, then Satan devours him and he now belongs to Satan. He is now Satan’s slave (son of disobedience) Romans 6:16 and he is no longer a son of righteousness Ezekiel 33:11-13.
OSAS is not Scriptural. It is a man-made doctrine.
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Xavierlives
Guest
No silly. I am condensing the concept of OSAS.
I can condense it even more:
Once I am saved, I am always saved.
T
Third_Day
Guest
How do you “know” you are saved?
Maybe you just “think” you are saved and you are not.
Maybe you have deceived yourself.
X
Xavierlives
Guest
Let me first say, thanks for at least staying and talking with us.
My workmanship for God’s glory might horrible. As soon as it is tested in the fire, it will be consumed, but I will still be saved.
err… follow means follow. Sheep don’t imitate their shepherd. Sheep recognize his protection, they know his voice, and they follow.
So “blessed” means saved? I thought blessed means, blessings are bestowed upon.
Wow… you really need to not pick and choose single verses. Take this in context, please.5All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power 10on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.
and you again miss some context, which is fitting to OSAS.10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
My workmanship for God’s glory might horrible. As soon as it is tested in the fire, it will be consumed, but I will still be saved.
So God saw that the apple was red at the end of time, so he made it red at the beginning of time. Am I getting that right?
Are you saying we cannot see the fruit on other’s trees? Why did Christ refer to barren trees so much? I wasn’t to note famine. He was making the connection to Christians.
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rev_kevin
Guest
I have sent 3 letters of resignation to the Catholic church. I have not received any reply. According to the CC if I don’t receive something stating they accept my resignation I am still a Catholic. Its not my choice to stay a Catholic, they won’t let me leave. No church can force me to stay if I don’t want to and that is one problem I have with the CC. So according to the CC I am still Catholic but as far as I’m concerned I’m Baptist.
So its not welcome back its we won’t let you leave even if you want to.
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Xavierlives
Guest
Is this some test of my faith? I know, because am am sure of what I hope for and know of the things I cannot see. And the things I can see I readily testify. I see God working in my life. I see his little miracles and I see his big miracles*****. By my faith, I was told to sell my house when everyone around me called me a fool. By faith, God blessed me, and showed me the world’s wisdom when the housing market crashed. By faith, we packed up our belongings to leave a part of the country that does not fear God to move near family and we have been bless with finding more practicing Christians than I thought possible. By faith, I testify to is constant presence in my life. So you ask how I know? And I say faith.
***** My wife had delivered 2 children natural with a midwife. It just so happens our midwife decided to move to another state just as my wife became pregnant with our third. So we were out looking for midwife or a doctor. We found a doctor, but she only delivered babies at the Women’s and Children’s Hospital. It was a 25 minute drive, but we said, if that is where she does it, then that is what we would do. We made plans for another natural childbirth and everything up until delivery was perfect. During this normal delivery though, she experienced cord prolapse. Under a natural delivery, cord prolapse is severe, with death or brain damage being the likely outcome. This is because under the natural delivery, an emergency requires calling up the anesthesiologist. At best, 5 mins to get ready, which is 5 minutes the baby is without oxygen. But, at the very moment we were having our crisis, another team of doctors was preparing to deliver twins by c-section. One minute later and the anesthesiologist would have been occupied and our baby would have died, but instead, the rolled the one mom out of the way and rolled my wife into an emergency c-section. She delivered a 9 pound 3 ounce baby with an apgar score of 0 and it took the doctors less than 2 minutes to do it. So to recap the miracles of God:
- Our mid-wife had to be removed from the situation so we could have a doctor.
- We had to deliver at a hospital with the very best neonatal facilty and facilities to aid the baby after delivery.
- We had to have an anesthesiologist and surgical team ready to deliver another woman at the exact moment we needed our baby delivered.
- I forgot to add there was another woman right next to us who was also completely dialated and being delivered by our doctor. Afterward our doctor said, she was getting ready to deliver that baby but before they started pushing, she wanted to check my wife (and saw the cord prolapse).
- We had to do was have faith God would care for us and recognize God’s hand in action.
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GodLovesTheSpek
Guest
Unless one commits Blasphemy? The unforgivable sin? A sin that is greater than God’s mercy?
If it is condensed then something has been taken away. The condensation does not include the unforgivable exception.
S
SHW
Guest
According to Webster’s New World Dictionary and Thesaurus, one of the definitions of
follow is: to take as a model; act in accordance with; imitate. This is the definition meant in this Scripture passage.
If a person is “saved,” then he is surely “blessed.”
If a person keeps/obeys God’s commandments, then he is blessed with the right to eternal life.You do not know what “OBEY THE GOSPEL” of our Lord Jesus means. It means to obey what He commands. What does He command? He commands that we keep/obey His commandments and do the will of His Father in heaven. If we do not do these things, then we will not inherit eternal life.
Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” Only God is all good, but if we want to enter into eternal life, then we must keep/obey His commandments.
He explains it further:
Matthew 19:18-19
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
**
No person really believes in Christ unless he obeys His commandments.** If he says that he knows God (believes in His gospel), but he does not also obey His commandments, then he is a liar. **He does not actually believe God or love Him unless he obeys Him. **
1 John 2:3-5
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
**
The person who obeys God (keeps His Word) by keeping/obeying His commandments is the person who knows Him.** The person who says that he believes in God and says that he knows Him, but does not also obey God’s commandments is only fooling himself. He is lying to himself and others, especially God. All liars, if they do not repent before death, go to hell.
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
I’ll have to finish this later since I have an appt.
R
Rocket_Man
Guest
And He explains it even further!
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
And even the rich man thinking that he had kept all that had been commanded, still fell short! Because he thought righteousness was obtained by keeping the law and did not hear God’s righteousness in the law and respond to what the law was to produce: a need for a Savior.
Anyone who has been born of God keeps his commandments.
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
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jmcrae
Guest
Your beliefs are very Catholic, and not at all like the Baptist teachings.
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tweetymom
Guest
By faith.
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