A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

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XL it appears this thread has run its course,and as I have beeen following it from its beginning I seem to recall that you stated you do not believe in OSAS yourself…if this is true then why dont you give everyone your reasons for that…if i am wrong abouit you I apologize (just worked off of nights shift)
 
on_fire said:
XL it appears this thread has run its course,and as I have beeen following it from its beginning I seem to recall that you stated you do not believe in OSAS yourself…if this is true then why dont you give everyone your reasons for that…if i am wrong abouit you I apologize (just worked off of nights shift)
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I’ve said this to a couple of people privately and I do not have a problem saying it publicly, exactly one week from today I am taking the Texas Bar Exam. I’ve tried to set a little time each day aside to read and make some minor posts. I’m thinking that your request will most likely be a major post which I can’t do justice at the moment. The test is Tue-Wed-Thurs and after that I am game.
 
Xavierlives said:
I’ve said this to a couple of people privately and I do not have a problem saying it publicly, exactly one week from today I am taking the Texas Bar Exam. I’ve tried to set a little time each day aside to read and make some minor posts. I’m thinking that your request will most likely be a major post which I can’t do justice at the moment. The test is Tue-Wed-Thurs and after that I am game.
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I will be praying for you and put you in my prayer can. God Bless
 
one more thought on the parable of the 10 virgins in Math 25…if the 5 wise virgins were allowed entrance into the wedding feast because they had enough oil for their lamps,then I am assuming they were saved and the other five were lost because they didnt have enough oil…but the 5 wise ones would not share the oil they had because they were afraid there would not be enough for all ten and they would be locked out too…lost…not saved …they were saved as long as they had enough oil but would have been lost if they too ran out…OSAS??? I dont think so…
 
Xavierlives said:
I’ve said this to a couple of people privately and I do not have a problem saying it publicly, exactly one week from today I am taking the Texas Bar Exam. I’ve tried to set a little time each day aside to read and make some minor posts. I’m thinking that your request will most likely be a major post which I can’t do justice at the moment. The test is Tue-Wed-Thurs and after that I am game.
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I too will pray for you XL that you will pass any tests or trials you may face in the present or in your future(if you know what I mean)
 
Xavierlives said:
I’ve said this to a couple of people privately and I do not have a problem saying it publicly, exactly one week from today I am taking the Texas Bar Exam. I’ve tried to set a little time each day aside to read and make some minor posts. I’m thinking that your request will most likely be a major post which I can’t do justice at the moment. The test is Tue-Wed-Thurs and after that I am game.
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Prayers going up right now!

Lots of people in my family took the Bar–and I think my prayers work 'cause they all passed! 😉
 
Well thank you for all the prayers. Hopefully studying will pay off.
 
on_fire said:
XL it appears this thread has run its course,and as I have beeen following it from its beginning I seem to recall that you stated you do not believe in OSAS yourself…if this is true then why dont you give everyone your reasons for that…if i am wrong abouit you I apologize (just worked off of nights shift)
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Ok. I am done with my exam and I can address some of the lagging issues on the OSAS thread (although I think it has finally lost steam).

On Fire you asked what what reasons I have for believing people can lose their salvation. I’ve been thinking and praying about this since you asked. I hope this doesn’t sound like a cop-out because I could have answered this two weeks ago, but it really wasn’t pressed upon me until just a few days ago.

There is not a whole lot of Bible pointing going to be done in this analysis (although I do not think it is devoid of theology).

I think we are called to be witnesses. Christ gives an example in the Book of John where He was being asked to testify before the judges (John 5:28-47). These judges are the same “sons of God” he referred to in John 10:34 (and the ones noted in Psalm 82:6). I believe when the time comes, we are going to step up to that Holy Bar. We are going to have to answer the questions brought forth. I also believe we can ask for witnesses. Now maybe I am think too much like a lawyer right now, but I don’t think this is too far of a stretch. Now. If given the opportunity to call up a single witness, I’ll call up Christ. He can testify on my behalf. But, someone calling upon Christ who he is not going to have anything to testify to is a dangerous proposition.

I guess this is where I bring in my personal relationship. My earthly father was a Christian 35 years ago. Then without much cause he left the church. He has tried a wide variety other faiths and has settled on buddhism. I love him but it breaks my heart to know that on his current path he will not be joining me. If there is any reason I should believe in OSAS, it is him. But he has refused to return to the Father. I am continuing to pray that he will find his way home but he is not a young man.\

So that is the basic short answer.
 
St Paul certainly didn’t believe in OSAS. He had to run the good race, fight the good fight, and persevere to the very end to receive his eternal reward and crown of glory. That is why he exhorts all of us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Satan and his devils labor ceaselessly for the ruin of our souls, as long as we live.
 
1beleevr said:
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We always assume thatJudas had saving faith, and then lost it!
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I don’t know that I even assume that. Jesus on numerous occasion calls Judas a demon or the devil, which sounds like he was far from God.
 
Xavierlives said:
I don’t know that I even assume that. Jesus on numerous occasion calls Judas a demon or the devil, which sounds like he was far from God.
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Only towards the end. Remember, it was Jesus Himself who chose Judas to be one of the Twelve - a high honour. He would not have allowed Judas to be in His inner circle, if Judas had not been a fully qualified sincere believer, in the beginning.

I am not suggesting that Jesus didn’t know in advance what would become of Judas later on; only that Judas, at the time that Jesus chose him, was fully qualified for membership in Jesus’ inner circle, at the time that Jesus chose him - he had sufficient faith to begin with, and then he lost it.
 
jmcrae said:
Only towards the end. Remember, it was Jesus Himself who chose Judas to be one of the Twelve - a high honour. He would not have allowed Judas to be in His inner circle, if Judas had not been a fully qualified sincere believer, in the beginning.

I am not suggesting that Jesus didn’t know in advance what would become of Judas later on; only that Judas, at the time that Jesus chose him, was fully qualified for membership in Jesus’ inner circle, at the time that Jesus chose him - he had sufficient faith to begin with, and then he lost it.
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If you read 2nd Peter chapter 2, it talks about the false prophets of this world - the people who say they’re ‘Christian,’ but they really aren’t. “For if, after they [the ‘Christians’] have escaped the defilements of the world and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first” (2nd Peter 2:20, NASB). At first glance, one might think this verse is referring to a person who had become a Christian and then subsequently ‘lost’ his salvation. But if you look at the first verse of the chapter, you’ll notice the passage is clearly referring to “false teachers”. In my opinion, that is exactly what Judas was - a hypocrite. Externally, he exhibited a “Christian” persona, but he had a false faith. The way I see it, such an explanation seems to be a much more reasonable theory than the notion that Judas ‘fell away’ from the faith. The fact is, he never had true faith in the first place.

God bless,
TS17
 
Vile_Servant said:
St Paul certainly didn’t believe in OSAS. He had to run the good race, fight the good fight, and persevere to the very end to receive his eternal reward and crown of glory. That is why he exhorts all of us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Satan and his devils labor ceaselessly for the ruin of our souls, as long as we live.
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If that is the case, then what was Paul referring to when he said, “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us [the Body of Christ] from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39, KJV)?
 
Truth_Seeker17 said:
If that is the case, then what was Paul referring to when he said, “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us [the Body of Christ] from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39, KJV)?
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My thoughts exactly!👍
 
Truth_Seeker17 said:
If you read 2nd Peter chapter 2, it talks about the false prophets of this world - the people who say they’re ‘Christian,’ but they really aren’t. “For if, after they [the ‘Christians’] have escaped the defilements of the world and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first” (2nd Peter 2:20, NASB). At first glance, one might think this verse is referring to a person who had become a Christian and then subsequently ‘lost’ his salvation. But if you look at the first verse of the chapter, you’ll notice the passage is clearly referring to “false teachers”. In my opinion, that is exactly what Judas was - a hypocrite. Externally, he exhibited a “Christian” persona, but he had a false faith. The way I see it, such an explanation seems to be a much more reasonable theory than the notion that Judas ‘fell away’ from the faith. The fact is, he never had true faith in the first place.

God bless,
TS17
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I agree more with TruthSeeker17’s take on the subject of Judas, and whether or not he had faith and then lost it! Being God, Jesus knew what was in Judas’s heart, yet let him become a disciple! Prophecy said that the Messiah would be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver(imagine that), and handed over to be killed! So, I believe that Judas’s fate was sealed from the beginning; every thing played out exactly as “scripted!” People almost always use this analogy when trying to disprove OSAS! Then some use the parable of the prodigal son, who demanded his inheritance, then left his father’s home, to hit it big! Then he became destitute, and was humbled; returning to his father. Did he lose his sonship?
 
I believe to understand the issue of Once Saved always Saved

If one excepts Christ and His teachings by profession, is the person immortal at that moment no matter what the person does until he dies? Without self sacrifice to give up the World and its ways. Or a better way to express, can one be saved in sin, or do we have to be saved from sin or sinning in which we understand as sin. 1 Jn 3:4

Saved or salvation is the separation of the sin nature or the ability to stop sinning which one has confessed. According to Prov 28:13 states to confess and forsake the sin, so if one has made this contract with Christ and we willfully break that contract to where we do not give up the sin, are not we in the wrong, as the Jews in Ex 19:5; Heb 8:6-10, and be lost as they because they rejected Christ the Power to change the nature we have.

One who is not overcoming the nature of sin through Christ is practicing the sin, are we not? OSAS sells alot of books for it meets the carnal unconverted nature we all have if we give into it. Then they use 1 Jn 1:9 we have a legal contract to keep sinning, the whole point of the Gospel is to receive Power Eph 3:7 to have His Nature 1 Pet 1:4 to live not according to the world Tit 2:11-14 which is called Grace.

Remember a Christian has two natures, old nature slowing dying, and Christ nature the power to overcome the nature to grow into His Image.

An unconverted person has only one, which does not want to change.

OSAS confuses or lumps together Justification and Sanctification into one pot. At the Cross Jesus paid for the sin, so the sin issue was finished, (since the devil is the author of sin, Jesus broke His power over our will so we do not have to, plus Justification forgiveness in which we do not deserve or can earn) but Salvation is due to our response 2 Cor 8:11-12 to the voice of God in our conscience Rom 9:1 to hear His Voice Heb 3:7 Called Faith Rom 10:17 which is the Word of God so sin will not have dominion over us. Ps 119:11

When we are tempted to sin we use Bible promises like 2 Cor 10:5 Asking for the power to overcome the temptation and the tempter. The point is when temptations come, God is seeing if His Son or the Holy Spirit is in us doing the work. Gal 1:15-16; 3:16-20

Justification was at the Cross, not sanctification which is God’s Work in our minds to turn us into Christ image to walk as He Walked, Phil 4:9 to fit us for heaven (If we do not want to give up the sin here in His Power to do so now, we will not be in heaven practicing the sin there because the nature to sin will be finished before Jesus Comes).

The Lord is in His Sanctuary in heaven interceding for us by the prayers to overcome. Heb 8:1-4;Heb 9 if salvation was completed at the Cross what is Jesus Christ doing, and why is Satan trying so hard to bring sin into the mind, why are we being tested and the trials. All just for fun, or is there another purpose. Yes, → 2 Corinthians 1:5-7 many Christians are not going to be in heaven because of a false doctrines. Matt 7:21-14

Those who wish only justification or profession and reject Sanctification will not inherent eternal life, because they rejected the love of the Truth (Pr 6:33) to be saved or set apart from sin. 2 Thess 2:10
 
After one gets saved, their journey with Christ begins, a sometimes rocky, sometimes glorious experience! The enemy gets excited because you have done something for God, and you may as well have a bullseye on your heart. Being naive in things spiritual, you are vulnerable to every temptation, and give in to more than you care to remember! You claim to be a Christian, but sometimes your words and actions would indicate otherwise! Then you have a life altering experience, which humbles you, and reminds you of your fraility, and you repent, confess, and fall on your face, asking for forgiveness! As you go forward, each day growing closer to Christ, the temptations still come, but you find that as you serve Him, and walk with Him, your ability to fight off the enemy becomes stronger! Are you safe yet; no! Are you loved by and protected, yes! Hey, this Christian walk is not easy; so let’s let Jesus live it through us! OSAS is a concept, which has not been proven or refuted by either side, but God has saved you from yourself for a reason, so trust that He will protect you!👍
 
this idea of osas in my opinion is a very prideful belief system, i mean to believe that you are so good that you are guaranteed to walk through those pearly gates is to say the least, very cocky. [hope that word doesnt offend] Can any of us actually say that we are as good as Christ and have walked in his path so righteously that we are absolutely in. I know i cant. That being said i know the promises made by Christ and what the cross meant and will always try to improve on my daily journey but will not feel so awsome about myself that i believe i have a shoe already in heaven. My goal is to finish strong and pray that my redeemer accepts me in his kingdom. Thanks God Bless
 
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