A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

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jmcrae said:
Well, that’s a fairly common theory, and you may have read it somewhere without remembering that you read it. I’m not sure what to make of that theory, because the rest of the Disciples didn’t think it was an earthly kingdom, in the military sense. Maybe Judas was hoping for some kind of earthly power, but I don’t think he thought Jesus was going to be a military commander. What evidence would he have had, to support that idea? 🤷

I think they already knew it was the Church, and I think they thought that Jesus was going to remain on the earth forever to be its leader; the Crucifixion surely threw them for a loop, in that regard (and I have to admit that, in their place, I would have probably just left the Church; I would have just thought that all the promises had been false, and that I had been duped).

It’s possible that Judas was trying to force Jesus to overthrow the High Priest to take over the Sanhedrin and announce Himself as God on earth, but I don’t think he was trying to force a military take-over - and I don’t think it occurred to Judas that the Sanhedrin would turn Jesus over to Pilate and ask for Him to be crucified - I think he may have just been trying to instigate a regime change in the Sanhedrin. If so, then I feel really sorry for Judas - he must have been going out of his mind when he saw Jesus being taken away to Pilate. But instead of repenting of his sin (whatever the motive may have been), he despaired, and committed suicide.
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There are so many theories on what Judas’s state of mind was, whether or not he knew that he was destined to betray Christ, whether he had faith,etc.! I believe that Jesus knew all along what Judas’s role was in God’s plan! The disciples were clueless, and didn’t understand what was happening; exactly. Someone had to betray Christ, that’s the way it was planned; and it just happenened to be Judas! After God allowed Satan to enter Judas, the evil plan was put into play, and praise God, worked to perfection! So all the discussion about whether Judas had faith and lost it, etc., is really not relevant. Judas performed the service he was chosen for!
 
kempo1 said:
As for me i will not compare myself to the walk the disciples had. The mountains they had to climb and fear of loosing their lives on a daily basis is no comparison to the world you and i walk in today. Can you imagine trying to spread the gospel under the conditions they were under. Just trying to be a christian would have been a huge task. we have it so much easier and still cant get it right. But like i said before considering also what i just said how can a christian know for sure he or she is guaranteed heaven this is where we Catholics would tell you we would maybe need a trip to purgatory for the cleansing of our sins. Be Back Later!!! Sorry
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Faith Does Not Dwell In The House Of Certainty!👍
 
kempo1 said:
As for me i will not compare myself to the walk the disciples had. The mountains they had to climb and fear of loosing their lives on a daily basis is no comparison to the world you and i walk in today. Can you imagine trying to spread the gospel under the conditions they were under. Just trying to be a christian would have been a huge task. we have it so much easier and still cant get it right. But like i said before considering also what i just said how can a christian know for sure he or she is guaranteed heaven this is where we Catholics would tell you we would maybe need a trip to purgatory for the cleansing of our sins. Be Back Later!!! Sorry
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You are correct about us not even being remotely close to dealing with what the disciples went through!😃 And yet, many of us are luctant to witness, to share our faith and our riches with those less fortunate! Do you believe that sharing the Gospel with someone, is like giving them a cup of cool water? Hebrews 11:6 says,“For without faith, it is impossible to please God.” We have to believe that even in our weakest moments, our Lord is able to lift us above the troublesome times; that He can and does save us from Satan’s clutches!
 
jmcrae said:
If Judas was looking for an earthly King, what would have made him think Jesus was that King? Jesus Himself never gave any evidence of desiring or even being qualified for such a position.
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Take a look at (John 6:14-15).
“Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take Him by force, to make Him a king, He departed again into a mountain himself alone.”

The promised Messiah was expected to be King by all Jews that read or heard Scripture.
 
jmcrae said:
I think it’s referring to people who have become believers at some point, but then overextended their reach, thinking they were teachers, when they really should have remained students - people who were not really connected into the Apostolic Tradition, and started speculating about what Jesus “must have really meant” instead of looking to the Apostles for guidance in these matters. But once they entered into the arena of speculation, they lost their Christian faith, and took others down with them, as well.
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Children, keep reading and studying those scriptures. And what He teaches you please proclaim to your brothers and sisters. Pray always…
 
Putting your bibles aside isn’t the theology of once saved alway’s saved a relatively new teaching that wasn’t around in the Apostles time?
 
Matt,

They would refuse to put any Bibles aside, saying that the teaching was clearly around during the time of the Apostles because the Bible teaches it. They might permit an historical gap during which the teaching was not widely believed, but there would ordinarily be a small remnant to keep the faith alive and the lights on, even if they were dim during those dark centuries before Calvin and Luther arrived.

Regards,

Rory

PS: I replied, I hope not too tersely on the thread that you started. I truly thank God for my years as an independent Baptist, and another time I could say why and how my experiences there led me to Rome. They hold a good important principle or two, distinct among Protestants, that are also compatible with the Catholic faith. I happily retain them. But suffice it to say that I was a trifle negative regarding the experiment you seem to be considering.
 
I have a question to those who believe in OSAS .who are the people that the inspired word of God is talking to in the following passages:Math 6 14,15:you must forgive others their tresspasses or else God wont forgive yours.if you arent forgiven can you still go to Heaven?Math 5 29-30 gouge out your eye,cut off your hand…better to enter life without a member then to go to Gehenna intact…do whatever it takes to stop sinning.why maim yourself if it cant cause you to loose your salvation… Galatians 5:19-20. “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God” 1 Cor 6 9-10 is similiar… can OASAers do these and go to Heaven?
 
on_fire said:
I have a question to those who believe in OSAS .who are the people that the inspired word of God is talking to in the following passages:Math 6 14,15:you must forgive others their tresspasses or else God wont forgive yours.if you arent forgiven can you still go to Heaven?Math 5 29-30 gouge out your eye,cut off your hand…better to enter life without a member then to go to Gehenna intact…do whatever it takes to stop sinning.why maim yourself if it cant cause you to loose your salvation… Galatians 5:19-20. “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God” 1 Cor 6 9-10 is similiar… can OASAers do these and go to Heaven?
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I would like to add this one too:

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

And we all know that 99.9% of sin is deliberate sin.
 
1beleevr said:
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I agree more with TruthSeeker17’s take on the subject of Judas, and whether or not he had faith and then lost it! Being God, Jesus knew what was in Judas’s heart, yet let him become a disciple! Prophecy said that the Messiah would be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver(imagine that), and handed over to be killed! So, I believe that Judas’s fate was sealed from the beginning; every thing played out exactly as “scripted!” People almost always use this analogy when trying to disprove OSAS! Then some use the parable of the prodigal son, who demanded his inheritance, then left his father’s home, to hit it big! Then he became destitute, and was humbled; returning to his father. Did he lose his sonship?
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JL:Correct the prodigal son did not lose his sonship, but as his father said to his brother, he WAS DEAD and NOW he is alive. He BECAME a DEAD SON when he squandered the gift his father gave him living in sin, He only became a LIVING SON again when he repented and returned to his father, seeking and asking forgiveness. If the son had not repented and returned he would have never entered his father’s house again. The scripture tells us Judas repented, yet he didn’t return to Christ for forgiveness. He despaired and killed himself, Mt27:1-5.

[1Cor10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all THESE THINGS HAPPENED unto them FOR EXAMPLES: and THEY ARE WRITTEN FOR OUR ADMONITION, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore LET HIM THAT THIINKETH HE STANDETH TAKE HEED LEST HE FALL.]
 
brb3 said:
Not a contract, but a covenant. One forged by flesh/blood … freely offered in love.
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It is a one-way covenant (or one-way contract) from God.
By your saying that it is a covenant “forged by flesh/blood… freely offered in love”, you seem to be agreeing with my above statement.
Jesus Christ is the free Gift of God. The cup of the New Testament, signified by His blood having been shed unto death for our sin, is a one-way covenant from God that can either be accepted or rejected by man. Our accepting or rejecting that free Gift is not a work on our part; or it could not properly be called a free Gift.
 
Matt_Macomber said:
Putting your bibles aside isn’t the theology of once saved alway’s saved a relatively new teaching that wasn’t around in the Apostles time?
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Well I think most OSAS believers view the Bible has always contained the assurance of salvation.
 
The terms of the contract are not " agree to the contract and that’s it "
The terms are " follow me, and do my will, seeking forgiveness each and every time you fail " At least those are God’s terms. What he offers in exchange for all that is the mercy and grace necessary to achieve heaven.
When you have a contract, both sides have responsibilities above and beyond simply agreeing to the contract. The terms ( follow me… ) must be abided by.
 
traillius said:
The terms of the contract are not " agree to the contract and that’s it "
The terms are " follow me, and do my will, seeking forgiveness each and every time you fail " At least those are God’s terms. What he offers in exchange for all that is the mercy and grace necessary to achieve heaven.
When you have a contract, both sides have responsibilities above and beyond simply agreeing to the contract. The terms ( follow me… ) must be abided by.
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So, don’t both parties have a responsibility?
 
Rocket_Man said:
Children, keep reading and studying those scriptures. And what He teaches you please proclaim to your brothers and sisters. Pray always…
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JL: OSAS came out of the Calvanist tradition in the fifteen hundreds. It is a minority tradition even among Protestants. I was a non-denominational Protestant with some Calvanist beliefs, but OSAS was certainly not one of them.
 
Matt_Macomber said:
Putting your bibles aside isn’t the theology of once saved alway’s saved a relatively new teaching that wasn’t around in the Apostles time?
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JL: OSAS came out of the Calvanist tradition in the fifteen hundreds. It is a minority tradition even among Protestants. I was a non-denominational Protestant with some Calvanist beliefs, but OSAS was certainly not one of them.
 
Xavierlives said:
So, don’t both parties have a responsibility?
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God’s responsibility: Give us the grace and mercy necessary for salvation
Our responsibility: believe, follow, obey, do his will, help others, and seek forgiveness each and every time we need it.
 
traillius said:
God’s responsibility: Give us the grace and mercy necessary for salvation
Our responsibility: believe, follow, obey, do his will, help others, and seek forgiveness each and every time we need it.
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(1 Corinthians 6:20) says that we are “bought with a price”, which price we know is by the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
If this contract requires a person having to also pay for or merit his salvation, then the price is not payed only by Christ. A “saved” person could also boast in paying a part of the price, as the Pharisee bragged about himself.
Our responsibility, after receiving salvation, is to “glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s”. This is especially so after we receive the seal of the indwelling Holy Spirit by the new birth from God. That responsibility does not save us. It is only the result of having been saved by God. To make that responsibility a requirement for salvation is to deny the full payment already made by Christ.
 
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