A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

[traillius]

(1 Corinthians 6:20) says that we are “bought with a price”, which price we know is by the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
If this contract requires a person having to also pay for or merit his salvation, then the price is not payed only by Christ. A “saved” person could also boast in paying a part of the price, as the Pharisee bragged about himself.
Our responsibility, after receiving salvation, is to “glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s”. This is especially so after we receive the seal of the indwelling Holy Spirit by the new birth from God. That responsibility does not save us. It is only the result of having been saved by God. To make that responsibility a requirement for salvation is to deny the full payment already made by Christ.

It appears you and I will have to agree to disagree, though we still are both christians.
If someone pays for a gift, and gives it to you, you don’t leave it unwrapped and set it on a shelf. You open it and use it. While you did not pay for the gift or earn it, it does nothing for you unless you open and use it. It may cost nothing to receive and be freely given, but it does require action to enjoy the benefit or for the gift to be used for its intended purpose.

 

[Truth_Seeker17]

I have a question to those who believe in OSAS .who are the people that the inspired word of God is talking to in the following passages:Math 6 14,15:you must forgive others their tresspasses or else God wont forgive yours.if you arent forgiven can you still go to Heaven?Math 5 29-30 gouge out your eye,cut off your hand…better to enter life without a member then to go to Gehenna intact…do whatever it takes to stop sinning.why maim yourself if it cant cause you to loose your salvation… Galatians 5:19-20. “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God” 1 Cor 6 9-10 is similiar… can OASAers do these and go to Heaven?

For cases like these, I think it’s important that you distinguish between falling in sin and living in sin. There’s a fine line between a Christian who struggles with a particular sin (but is always remorseful after messing up) and a ‘Christian’ who unashamedly and unrepentantly practices sin left and right (‘oh, well, God’s grace will save me!’ No need to worry!’). The first person tries to be perfect by practicing righteousness, knowing full well he will occasionally fall into sin, but the second person, wants to continue sinning ‘so that God’s grace may increase’.

The first person is a true Christian and will always be saved, and the second person is a false Christian and never was saved in the first place.

 

[ccolley]

Did God offer you salvation?

Did you accept?

You have a contract. Ask any lawyer.

There is a big difference between a contract and a covenant.
CC

 

[jlhargus]

For cases like these, I think it’s important that you distinguish between falling in sin and living in sin. There’s a fine line between a Christian who struggles with a particular sin (but is always remorseful after messing up) and a ‘Christian’ who unashamedly and unrepentantly practices sin left and right (‘oh, well, God’s grace will save me!’ No need to worry!’). The first person tries to be perfect by practicing righteousness, knowing full well he will occasionally fall into sin, but the second person, wants to continue sinning ‘so that God’s grace may increase’.

The first person is a true Christian and will always be saved, and the second person is a false Christian and never was saved in the first place.

JL: So how often can I FALL into sex outside of marriage? 1 or 2 times a week, 1 or 2 times a month, 1 or 2 times a year or could it be more. So as long as it does not become “A LIFE STYLE”, can I sin a much as I like, what is that fine line? If I, knowingly and willing, have sex outside of marriage knowing it is a serious sin against God and if I die with a heart attack while engaging in sex outside marriage, will I’ll go to heaven. Where does the scripture tells us there is a fine line between FALLING and living in sin?

1Cor6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

 

[Roblox84]

Since a lot of protestants say that if someone commits a serious sin, they must not have been truly saved, then how would this differ from the Catholic perspective?

 

[brb3]

These are interchangeable.

Words have precise meanings. Don’t interchange them in error.

A contract involves exchange of temporal, material property for some fee or other currency of exchange. Even a marriage contract has legally binding monetary/property aspect to it. It can be broken, annulled.

A covenant involves exchange of eternal ‘spiritual’ matters. It is sealed with vows, not money. What God made with Abraham. What Christ offers to a convert. Gifted, forged on faith, transfered by grace of Eternal Word [in example of Christianity]. It cannot be broken, annulled.

 

[zach_dunn]

(1 Corinthians 6:20) says that we are “bought with a price”, which price we know is by the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
If this contract requires a person having to also pay for or merit his salvation, then the price is not payed only by Christ. A “saved” person could also boast in paying a part of the price, as the Pharisee bragged about himself.
Our responsibility, after receiving salvation, is to “glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s”. This is especially so after we receive the seal of the indwelling Holy Spirit by the new birth from God. That responsibility does not save us. It is only the result of having been saved by God. To make that responsibility a requirement for salvation is to deny the full payment already made by Christ.

Catholics can view this verse as a description of redemption rather than salvation:

Hebrews 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats, or of calves, but by his own blood, entered once into the holies, having obtained eternal redemption.

Revelation 5:9
And they sung a new canticle, saying: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; because thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God, in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Catholics tend to interpret salvation as a process rather than a one time thing due to the fact that the Bible refers to salvation in the past, present, and future; this is where the issue lies, I believe.

 

[Roblox84]

This is for all the believers of OSAS. Read the letter from Paul to the Corinthians. 1:9.

25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

St.Paul was one of the greatest teachers of Jesus. He obviously believed in Christ and allowed him in with his heart, yet he himself clearly stated that he will alway’s preach and do the word of God so he himself will not loose his salvation and one day be with God.

If OSAS wasn’t taught then, why would someone years later deter from that teaching?

 

[brb3]

This is for all the believers of OSAS. Read the letter from Paul to the Corinthians. 1:9.

25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

St.Paul was one of the greatest teachers of Jesus. He obviously believed in Christ and allowed him in with his heart, yet he himself clearly stated that he will alway’s preach and do the word of God so he himself will not loose his salvation and one day be with God.

If OSAS wasn’t taught then, why would someone years later deter from that teaching?

Paul is teaching OSAS, … via perseverance !!! Paul is determined that he will go the distance, make it to the final bell … via grace and security of Christ’s graces to him. Paul was fixated on daily restoration, daily repentance, daily rededication of himself to his Lord’s service. Paul was the ultimate Zealot. He tells us in scritures he worked harder than ALL the other apostles. Nevertheless, he attributed all his perseverance to his Lord. W/O the grace of God to him … he would never of survived, and he says as much in his letters. He had absolute certitude of his ultimate victory, failure was not an option for him.

 

[Roblox84]

Paul is teaching OSAS, … via perseverance !!! Paul is determined that he will go the distance, make it to the final bell … via grace and security of Christ’s graces to him. Paul was fixated on daily restoration, daily repentance, daily rededication of himself to his Lord’s service. Paul was the ultimate Zealot. He tells us in scritures he worked harder than ALL the other apostles. Nevertheless, he attributed all his perseverance to his Lord. W/O the grace of God to him … he would never of survived, and he says as much in his letters. He had absolute certitude of his ultimate victory, failure was not an option for him.

And not once does he mention that he knew he was saved.

 

[jlhargus]

Paul is teaching OSAS, … via perseverance !!! Paul is determined that he will go the distance, make it to the final bell … via grace and security of Christ’s graces to him. Paul was fixated on daily restoration, daily repentance, daily rededication of himself to his Lord’s service. Paul was the ultimate Zealot. He tells us in scritures he worked harder than ALL the other apostles. Nevertheless, he attributed all his perseverance to his Lord. W/O the grace of God to him … he would never of survived, and he says as much in his letters. He had absolute certitude of his ultimate victory, failure was not an option for him.

JL: If Paul were teaching OSAS, why would he be so concerned, as to beat his body, about being disqualified. According to OSAS he CAN’T be disqualified. If he were teaching OSAS then he would be expressing a doubt he IS saved in the first place, NO ASSURANCE. Paul was clealy NOT teaching OSAS, but quite the opposite.

 

[Xavierlives]

God’s responsibility: Give us the grace and mercy necessary for salvation
Our responsibility: believe, follow, obey, do his will, help others, and seek forgiveness each and every time we need it.

Ok. So we both are performing.

 

[Xavierlives]

And not once does he mention that he knew he was saved.

The Book of John and the epistles of John do that (even Revelation).

 

[jlhargus]

The Book of John and the epistles of John do that (even Revelation).

JL: According to Paul he has HOPE, YET not already attained. He does not consider that he has captured and made it his own yet, he is still pressing forward toward the goal to win the prize, Philipians 3:10-17.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians%203:10-17&version=AMP

 

[1beleevr]

Since a lot of protestants say that if someone commits a serious sin, they must not have been truly saved, then how would this differ from the Catholic perspective?

I would never say that a Christian who commits a serious sin was never saved; but I would question someone’s salvation, if after being saved, they openly led a life that was rife with sin! It would be like “biting the hand that feeds you”. And who decides what a serious sin is? Isn’t all sin serious in God’s eyes? What if one day, your straight A student, active in church, volunteered in the community, was arrested, convicted of murder and went to prison? Do they lose their sonship?

 

[1beleevr]

This is for all the believers of OSAS. Read the letter from Paul to the Corinthians. 1:9.

25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

St.Paul was one of the greatest teachers of Jesus. He obviously believed in Christ and allowed him in with his heart, yet he himself clearly stated that he will alway’s preach and do the word of God so he himself will not loose his salvation and one day be with God.

If OSAS wasn’t taught then, why would someone years later deter from that teaching?

How can we be sure that some form of OSAS was not implied back then, as an incentive to keep the Commandments, to follow Jesus’s words, and strive to be more like Him? Sin is all around us. Just because we are saved, doesn’t mean that sin disappeared! But even though Paul said to work out your salvation,“with trembling and fear”, I am not sure he meant to live each day in fear of losing it! I know people who openly preach that because you are saved, it’s not that bad if you do a line of cocaine or drink a case of beer every now and then; you’re covered by the blood of Christ! As for myself, I don’t necessarily live in fear and trembling, but rather in humility, and gratefulness! I am well aware of my fraility as a human, and know that at any moment, I could fall prey to temptation, and then to sin. But, at this stage of my Christian walk, I am learning daily to trust in God for strength to battle the temptations, and strive to walk the narrow pathway!

 

[Roblox84]

How can we be sure that some form of OSAS was not implied back then, as an incentive to keep the Commandments, to follow Jesus’s words, and strive to be more like Him? Sin is all around us. Just because we are saved, doesn’t mean that sin disappeared! But even though Paul said to work out your salvation,“with trembling and fear”, I am not sure he meant to live each day in fear of losing it! I know people who openly preach that because you are saved, it’s not that bad if you do a line of cocaine or drink a case of beer every now and then; you’re covered by the blood of Christ! As for myself, I don’t necessarily live in fear and trembling, but rather in humility, and gratefulness! I am well aware of my fraility as a human, and know that at any moment, I could fall prey to temptation, and then to sin. But, at this stage of my Christian walk, I am learning daily to trust in God for strength to battle the temptations, and strive to walk the narrow pathway!

I don’t think we should live in fear each day, but I also don’t think we should be taught false hopes.

 

[jmcrae]

I would never say that a Christian who commits a serious sin was never saved; but I would question someone’s salvation, if after being saved, they openly led a life that was rife with sin! It would be like “biting the hand that feeds you”. And who decides what a serious sin is? Isn’t all sin serious in God’s eyes? What if one day, your straight A student, active in church, volunteered in the community, was arrested, convicted of murder and went to prison? Do they lose their sonship?

They are the Prodigal Son when he is in the pigsty.

He has to choose to return home - if he doesn’t, then he will remain eternally in the pigsty. He is still a son, but he is a son who is not at home with the Father.

 

[Xavierlives]

How can we be sure that some form of OSAS was not implied back then, as an incentive to keep the Commandments, to follow Jesus’s words, and strive to be more like Him? Sin is all around us. Just because we are saved, doesn’t mean that sin disappeared! But even though Paul said to work out your salvation,“with trembling and fear”, I am not sure he meant to live each day in fear of losing it! I know people who openly preach that because you are saved, it’s not that bad if you do a line of cocaine or drink a case of beer every now and then; you’re covered by the blood of Christ! As for myself, I don’t necessarily live in fear and trembling, but rather in humility, and gratefulness! I am well aware of my fraility as a human, and know that at any moment, I could fall prey to temptation, and then to sin. But, at this stage of my Christian walk, I am learning daily to trust in God for strength to battle the temptations, and strive to walk the narrow pathway!

The problem is many want to ignore the assurances found in John’s writing. I take John’s assurance and I try to walk with reverance.

 

[1beleevr]

I don’t think we should live in fear each day, but I also don’t think we should be taught false hopes.

I thank God every day, that the Holy Spirit gives me the power of discernment, so I can recognize false doctrine!