A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

[1beleevr]

They are the Prodigal Son when he is in the pigsty.

He has to choose to return home - if he doesn’t, then he will remain eternally in the pigsty. He is still a son, but he is a son who is not at home with the Father.

And sometimes, the father goes in search of his lost son/daughter Remember the sheep that wandered off, or the lady who lost the coin?

 

[brb3]

I would never say that a Christian who commits a serious sin was never saved; if after being saved, they openly led a life that was rife with sin!

Do they lose their sonship?

And, you would be wrong. It happens quite alot. Lots of Prodigals around.

They are in grave danger, living with unconfessed Mortals. I think most will eventually repent and return to the fold. Its hard to stay in the pig pen for too long, once God judges them, and their money gives out.

 

[1beleevr]

The problem is many want to ignore the assurances found in John’s writing. I take John’s assurance and I try to walk with reverance.

I believe in them! And also Paul’s reassuring words in Romans 8:38-39! Somedays my cross gets heavy, and I stumble, but my Saviour is right there to pick me up! It is a humbling experience to be in His presence!

 

[1beleevr]

And, you would be wrong. It happens quite alot. Lots of Prodigals around.

They are in grave danger, living with unconfessed Mortals. I think most will eventually repent and return to the fold. Its hard to stay in the pig pen for too long, once God judges them, and their money gives out.

And anyone who claims to have never been that prodigal son, is a liar! We all fall short, and we all fall away. In spite of our love for Jesus, we are tempted daily, and depending on our state of mind, are vulnerable to all types of sin.But God, in His incredible grace and mercy, forgives, and welcomes us back with open arms!

 

[Roblox84]

I don’t understand this OSAS. Who does it apply to and how does it work? Does it only apply to the protestant faith? What about the protestant that turned Atheist and never went back to God, does OSAS apply to him? Or what about if Hitler got saved early on, would it apply to him?

I just want to learn the fine print behind this theory. I guess you can say I wouldn’t make a good protestant because I find everything about it so confusing. And the sad part is that I have attended a fundamentalist Church for one year. You would think I would come out with some kind of a knowledge about this or even their other beliefs. Maybe the Church sucked and just never gave the specifics, I don’t know.

 

[brb3]

What about the protestant that turned Atheist and never went back to God, does OSAS apply to him? Or what about if Hitler got saved early on, would it apply to him?

That Atheist was never saved in past, not saved in present, and determined not to accept offer of salvation of Christ.

Hitler was a monstrous AntiChrist. Clearly OSAS wouldn’t apply to him, unless he fully repented on his last day and didn’t commit suicide.

 

[jmcrae]

That Atheist was never saved in past, not saved in present, and determined not to accept offer of salvation of Christ.

I have a friend who was an Evangelical street preacher, until he took up with a woman, and after he had a child with her, he became an atheist, because he couldn’t reconcile the teachings of the Bible with his lifestyle (unmarried but having sex and raising a child).

If he had died before he had met this woman, when he was still an enthusiastic Evangelical, preaching the Word of God on the street corners, would he have been “saved,” or not?

If not, how would he have been able to tell, at that time? Since he believed with his whole being that he was “saved” and had absolutely no doubt that his salvation was assured, no matter what happened.

 

[brb3]

I have a friend who was an Evangelical street preacher, until he took up with a woman, and after he had a child with her, he became an atheist, because he couldn’t reconcile the teachings of the Bible with his lifestyle (unmarried but having sex and raising a child).

If he had died before he had met this woman, when he was still an enthusiastic Evangelical, preaching the Word of God on the street corners, would he have been “saved,” or not?

It’s one matter to be a Prodigal son, who knows he is living in error, … and another matter to claim to be a believer, who later says Christ is illegitimate.

No OSAS disciple will ever sincerely DENY Christ with any conviction. This street preacher had only a ‘theoretical’ knowledge of Christ … which never matured into an abiding faith.

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae;6408029:

I have a friend who was an Evangelical street preacher, until he took up with a woman, and after he had a child with her, he became an atheist, because he couldn’t reconcile the teachings of the Bible with his lifestyle (unmarried but having sex and raising a child).

If he had died before he had met this woman, when he was still an enthusiastic Evangelical, preaching the Word of God on the street corners, would he have been “saved,” or not?

It’s one matter to be a Prodigal son, who knows he is living in error, … and another matter to claim to be a believer, who later says Christ is illegitimate.

No OSAS disciple will ever sincerely DENY Christ with any conviction. This street preacher had only a ‘theoretical’ knowledge of Christ … which never matured into an abiding faith.

He describes the experience as being similar to believing in Santa Claus and really, honestly thinking that Santa Claus is real, to later finding out that it was only a story. He really did sincerely believe in Jesus, and he has since changed his mind. People do that, you know.

But if he would have gone to Hell if he had died while doing his street ministry, what warning would he have had, of that? How could he have gotten himself “saved,” since he was already convinced that he was “saved,” at the time?

 

[Roblox84]

I have a friend who was an Evangelical street preacher, until he took up with a woman, and after he had a child with her, he became an atheist, because he couldn’t reconcile the teachings of the Bible with his lifestyle (unmarried but having sex and raising a child).

If he had died before he had met this woman, when he was still an enthusiastic Evangelical, preaching the Word of God on the street corners, would he have been “saved,” or not?

If not, how would he have been able to tell, at that time? Since he believed with his whole being that he was “saved” and had absolutely no doubt that his salvation was assured, no matter what happened.

I would think in this case the preacher really doesn’t care, because if someone has TRUE faith in OSAS, then he would believe nothing will take him away from heaven. And the people in his congregation should also believe that he is still saved and going to heaven or else they wouldn’t believe in OSAS teachings and the Church would fail because after all, they were all taught that one is saved forever. So I would hope they would not go against their own teaching.

 

[ccolley]

And ya’ll are getting hung up on the idea that God contracts with us. A covenant and a contract are basically one in the same.

Covenants and contracts are VERY different! Contracts tend to recognize human nature’s sinfulness while covenants tend to recognize human nature’s honor.

**Covenants **
-almost always a verbal agreement
-spoken word carries a sense of absolute power

• only main points are specified
  -Responsibilities are based on the spirit of words of the agreement
  -Penalties for violating the are not stated in the agreement but are understood to be severe
  -The agreement is enforced by the offended party if possible
  -the agreement is entered through a ritual ceremony resulting in some concrete sign of the agreement.

contracts

• Only the letter of the contract is enforceable
  -almost always written agreement
  -written word is all that is enforceable
• all details are stated in agreement
  -Penalties for violating the agreement are stated in the contract.
  -The agreement is enforced by courts
  The agreement is entered into by the placing of signatures of the the parties and of witnesses on the agreement.

CC

 

[ccolley]

And who decides what a serious sin is? Isn’t all sin serious in God’s eyes?

Not according to the bible…

• 1 John 5:
  15
  And if we know that he hears us in regard to whatever we ask, we know that what we have asked him for is ours.
  16
  If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
  17
  All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.*

Obviously there is deadly (mortal) sin and not deadly (venial) sin. BTW, the 10 commandments decide what is mortal and what is venial…oh, but that would be God, wouldn’t it?
CC
[SIGN]Catholics are the “original” bible Christians! [/SIGN]

 

[1beleevr]

Not according to the bible…

• 1 John 5:
  15
  And if we know that he hears us in regard to whatever we ask, we know that what we have asked him for is ours.
  16
  If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
  17
  All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.*

Obviously there is deadly (mortal) sin and not deadly (venial) sin. BTW, the 10 commandments decide what is mortal and what is venial…oh, but that would be God, wouldn’t it?
CC
[SIGN]Catholics are the “original” bible Christians! [/SIGN]

And yet, I believe it was James who said,“For if you have broken one Commandment, you have broken them all!”

 

[fbl9]

And yet, I believe it was James who said,“For if you have broken one Commandment, you have broken them all!”

Which comandments have you broken today? Are ye without sin? no need to list all ten…Which commandment binds alcohol? Foul language?

 

[jmcrae]

Which comandments have you broken today? Are ye without sin? no need to list all ten…Which commandment binds alcohol? Foul language?

The misuse of alcohol could be part of “thou shalt not kill” when you expand it to understand not doing harm to others.

The commandment against foul language could either be “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain,” or “Thou shalt not bear false witness,” depending on the nature of the foul language, and why it is being used.

 

[AtticusFinch]

OSAS is, in my opinion, the biggest hoax Satan ever perpetrated. What a great thing! Once I am saved, I can do whatever I want! I can kill, steal, rape, pillage and I can never lose my salvation! How AWESOME!

 

[Mark01]

It seems to me from what I have read in Scripture, the act of salvation can not happen while we are in our earthly bodies. Salvation is a gift from God, even those who feel that they do have this gift from God while alive, upon death, will still be judged if I have read the Bible correctly. Does not the Bible clearly point out that upon our death all will be judged? This is our particulier judgement, if we have been worthy to the end we are given the gift of salvation. If we are found to be unworthy we are forever lost to God.

In order to fully believe OSAS would not one have to also believe they will not be judged? Why will we be judged at all if we have already been elected or damned?

 

[1beleevr]

Which comandments have you broken today? Are ye without sin? no need to list all ten…Which commandment binds alcohol? Foul language?

I’m not totally sure, but I told a lie today; would that be bearing false witness? Whichever binds alcohol must not apply to my catholic frien/co-worker. He is giving up alcohol for Lent, but says the day after Easter, he and about ten(10) friends are having a beer blast, and they will get wasted! He says they do it every year. And while I don’t use foul language(do you?) I sometimes think it. And I am not without sin, even though I am saved! I could echo Paul’s words where he said,“For it is not I who sin, but the sin within me.”

 

[1beleevr]

Not according to the bible…

• 1 John 5:
  15
  And if we know that he hears us in regard to whatever we ask, we know that what we have asked him for is ours.
  16
  If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
  17
  All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.*

Obviously there is deadly (mortal) sin and not deadly (venial) sin. BTW, the 10 commandments decide what is mortal and what is venial…oh, but that would be God, wouldn’t it?
CC
[SIGN]Catholics are the “original” bible Christians! [/SIGN]

So,what is your point; I mean in regards to catholics being the original Bible Christians?

 

[brb3]

He describes the experience as being similar to believing in Santa Claus and really, honestly thinking that Santa Claus is real, to later finding out that it was only a story. He really did sincerely believe in Jesus, and he has since changed his mind. People do that, you know.

But if he would have gone to Hell if he had died while doing his street ministry, what warning would he have had, of that? How could he have gotten himself “saved,” since he was already convinced that he was “saved,” at the time?

Christ answered that question in Matt. 7:21-23 "Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and do MANY MIGHTY WORKS IN YOUR NAME?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I NEVER KNEW you; depart from me, you evildoors.’ "