A Catholic in a Protestant church

[catharina]

Comparing the Holy Eucharist to all one “misses” in a denomination
is to compare the Gift of Life to dross and nothingness. Please. THINK. PRAY.

 

[vz71]

Comparing the Holy Eucharist to all one “misses” in a denomination
is to compare the Gift of Life to dross and nothingness. Please. THINK. PRAY.

To be perfectly honest, I believe there are only a few making that comparison.

The rest realize the Eucharist for what it is.
They simply are looking for something to fill an emotional need.

The question for a few is not the quality of what is already there, it is a question of what else they feel a need for.

The rote and reverence in many Catholic churches can feel like a very dry place to someone coming straight out of a Charismatic Pentocostal church service.

So my big problem here is why the need to leave the church looking for this when it could readily be brought to the church?
If the need is so acute, why is there no effort to fill it within the church?

 

[firstmode]

I seem to be seeing a lot of people judging the worshipers of God, people worshiping in spirit and truth, judging them that they are there to get an adrenaline rush, to watch a show like they would go to a Guns and Roses Concert, etc.

Catholics take Holy Water, Incense, and many other traditions from the old testament yet they throw out the book of Psalms saying that is how Jews at that time worshiped. WAT??

Exodus 15:19-21
For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them; but the children of Israel went on dry land in the midst of the sea. And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. And Miriam answered them, Sing ye to the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.

Judges 5:3
“Hear this, you kings! Listen, you rulers! I will sing to the LORD, I will sing; I will make music to the LORD, the God of Israel.”

1 Samuel 18:6-7
When the men were returning home after David had killed the Philistine, the women came out from all the towns of Israel to meet King Saul with singing and dancing, with joyful songs and with tambourines and lutes. 7 As they danced, they sang: “Saul has slain his thousands, and David his tens of thousands.”

2 Samuel 6:13-17,20-23
Now King David was told, “The LORD has blessed the household of Obed-Edom and everything he has, because of the ark of God.” So David went down and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obed-Edom to the City of David with rejoicing. When those who were carrying the ark of the LORD had taken six steps, he sacrificed a bull and a fattened calf. David, wearing a linen ephod, danced before the LORD with all his might, while he and the entire house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouts and the sound of trumpets As the ark of the LORD was entering the City of David, Michal daughter of Saul watched from a window. And when she saw King David leaping and dancing before the LORD, she despised him in her heart. …When David returned home to bless his household, Michal daughter of Saul came out to meet him and said, “How the king of Israel has distinguished himself today, disrobing in the sight of the slave girls of his servants as any vulgar fellow would!” David said to Michal, “It was before the LORD, who chose me rather than your father or anyone from his house when he appointed me ruler over the LORD’s people Israel —** I will celebrate before the LORD. I will become even more undignified than this**, and I will be humiliated in my own eyes. But by these slave girls you spoke of, I will be held in honor.” And Michal daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death.

1 Chronicles 15:16
David told the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brothers as singers to sing joyful songs, accompanied by musical instruments: lyres, harps and cymbals.

1 Chronicles 16:9
Sing to him, sing praise to him; tell of all his wonderful acts.

1 Chronicles 16:23
Sing to the LORD, all the earth; proclaim his salvation day after day.

2 Chronicles 5:13
The trumpeters and singers joined in unison, as with one voice, to give praise and thanks to the LORD. Accompanied by trumpets, cymbals and other instruments, they raised their voices in praise to the LORD and sang: “He is good; his love endures forever.” Then the temple of the LORD was filled with a cloud,

2 Chronicles 29:28
The whole assembly bowed in worship, while the singers sang and the trumpeters played. All this continued until the sacrifice of the burnt offering was completed.

Psalm 9:1
I will praise thee, O LORD, with my whole heart; I will shew forth all thy marvellous works.

Psalm 30:4
Sing to the LORD, you saints of his; praise his holy name.

Psalm 30:11
You turned my wailing into dancing; you removed my sackcloth and clothed me with joy,

Psalm 59:16
But I will sing of your strength, in the morning I will sing of your love; for you are my fortress, my refuge in times of trouble.

Psalm 99:5
Exalt the LORD our God and worship at his footstool; he is holy.

Psalm 100
Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth. Worship the LORD with gladness; come before him with joyful songs. Know that the LORD is God. It is he who made us, and we are his [a] ; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture. Enter his gates with thanksgiving and his courts with praise; give thanks to him and praise his name. For the LORD is good and his love endures forever; his faithfulness continues through all generations.

Psalm 138:1
I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.

Psalm 149:3
Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Psalm 150
Praise the LORD! Praise God in His sanctuary; Praise Him in His mighty expanse. Praise Him for His mighty deeds; Praise Him according to His excellent greatness. Praise Him with trumpet sound; Praise Him with harp and lyre. Praise Him with timbrel and dancing; Praise Him with stringed instruments andpipe. Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with resounding cymbals. Let everything that has breath praise the LORD. Praise the LORD!

Isaiah 35:10
and the ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away. - Uh Oh, they are being overtaken by JOY! They must just be feeling an adrenaline rush!!!

 

[firstmode]

Isaiah 44:23
Sing for joy, O heavens, for the LORD has done this; shout aloud, O earth beneath. Burst into song, you mountains, you forests and all your trees, for the LORD has redeemed Jacob, he displays his glory in Israel.

Isaiah 51:11
The ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

Jeremiah 3:31-3-5
“I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness. I will build you up again and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel. Again you will take up your tambourines and go out to dance with the joyful.” - UH DANCING!!!

Jeremiah 31:13
Then maidens will dance and be glad, young men and old as well. I will turn their mourning into gladness; I will give them comfort and joy instead of sorrow.

Malachi 4:2
But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. - OH MY! LEAPING!!!

John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

Revelation 5:13
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

Revelation 15:4
Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed."

 

[vz71]

Jeremiah 3:31-3-5
"I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness. I will build you up again and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel. Again you will take up your tambourines and go out to dance with the joyful." - UH DANCING!!!

…and go out to dance…
What is described is not taking place inside.

Malachi 4:2
But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. - OH MY! LEAPING!!!

…And you will go out and leap…
Again, this is taking place outside.

The context of the scriptures you are using make them inappropriate if your attempt here is to show how dancing and leaping should be allowed within the Mass.

 

[firstmode]

Glory in his holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice. 1 Chronicles 16:10

Splendor and majesty are before him; strength and joy in his dwelling place. Ascribe to the LORD, O families of nations, ascribe to the LORD glory and strength, ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name. Bring an offering and come before him; worship the LORD in the splendor of his holiness. Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved. Let the heavens rejoice, let the earth be glad; let them say among the nations, “The LORD reigns!” Let the sea resound, and all that is in it; let the fields be jubilant, and everything in them! Then the trees of the forest will sing, they will sing for joy before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth. Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; his love endures forever. 1 Chronicles 16:27-34

But let all who take refuge in you be glad; let them ever sing for joy. Spread your protection over them, that those who love your name may rejoice in you. Psalm 5:11

I will be glad and rejoice in you; I will sing praise to your name, O Most High. Psalm 9:2

You have made known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand. Psalm 16:11 - Filled with Joy in God’s presence!!! WAT? WAT does that mean?!?

The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped. My heart leaps for joy and I will give thanks to him in song. Psalm 28:7

Rejoice in the LORD and be glad, you righteous; sing, all you who are upright in heart! Psalm 32:11

Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy. Psalm 33:3

In him our hearts rejoice, for we trust in his holy name. Psalm 33:21

Then my soul will rejoice in the LORD and delight in his salvation. Psalm 35:9

B]But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you; may those who love your salvation always say, “The LORD be exalted!” Psalm 40:16 - OH MY! AN EXCLAMATION POINT IN THE BIBLE!!!

Let the righteous rejoice in the LORD and take refuge in him; let all the upright in heart praise him! Psalm 64:10

May the nations be glad and sing for joy, for you rule the peoples justly and guide the nations of the earth. Psalm 67:4

But may the righteous be glad and rejoice before God; may they be happy and joyful. Sing to God, sing praise to his name, extol him who rides on the clouds – his name is the LORD-- and rejoice before him. Psalm 68:3-4

But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you; may those who love your salvation always say, “Let God be exalted!” Psalm 70:4 - ANOTHER EXCLAMATION POINT!!!

My lips will shout for joy when I sing praise to you-- I, whom you have redeemed. Psalm 71:23 - SHOUTING!!! SHOUTING !!! BLASPHEMY!!!

 

[vz71]

You have made known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand. Psalm 16:11 - Filled with Joy in God’s presence!!! WAT? WAT does that mean?!?

Most that have taken the Eucharist in the Mass know well what this means.

My lips will shout for joy when I sing praise to you-- I, whom you have redeemed. Psalm 71:23

• SHOUTING!!! SHOUTING !!! BLASPHEMY!!!

Shout for joy when I sing…
Seems to me joyful songs are already present in the Mass.

Of course, if you don’t put the joy in it as you sing, then one could hardly expect to get the joy out of it.

 

[firstmode]

There are so so so many, I would spam this whole thread trying to show you 1/10th of the “charismatic” praise in the Bible.

What have we learned from the Bible today???

1. Dancing and banging a tambourine for God is WORSHIP!!!
2. Shouting praise songs LOUD to God is WORSHIP!!
3. Using Many many musical instruments in praise to God is WORSHIP!!!
4. Leaping in joy to God is WORSHIP!!!
5. Singing a NEW SONG to God is WORSHIP!!!

The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing." Zephaniah 3:17 - GOD REJOICES OVER US WITH SINGING! AMEN! HALLELUJAH! GOD REJOICES IN SONG! Do you rejoice in song like our Father in heaven does?

All of you people criticizing this poor girl for wanting to worship God and experience the joy it brings to the heart are being of poor spirit and not being very charitable.

Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:12

"Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets. Luke 6:23 - Leaping again!!!

I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. Luke 15:11

You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence.’ Acts 2:28

And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit. Acts 13:52 - LOOK AT ALL OF THIS EMOTION RUINING TRUE WORSHIP OF GOD! WHAT WERE THE DISCIPLES THINKING??

Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. Philippians 3:1 - LISTEN TO PAUL! REJOICE IN THE LORD!!

Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Philippians 4:4

Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9 - LISTEN TO PETER! INEXPRESSIBLE AND GLORIOUS JOY!!! INEXPRESSIBLE!!!

At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure. Luke 10:21 - OH MY! JESUS WAS FILLED WITH JOY IN WORSHIP TO THE FATHER!!! OH MY!! WHY SHOULD HE SEEK SUCH A THING!

You guys need to lighten up or you may not enjoy this day! People may be too loud and distracting around you!!

Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Revelation 19:7

 

[firstmode]

You may find it surprising that we meet the same God in a charismatic service as the one who spoke to the prophets of the Old Testament, the one who gave the saints ecstasies, overshadowed the mother of Jesus and the One who never stopped meeting people any and everywhere.
We don’t encounter “feelings”. We encounter the Living God. And when we encounter Him then there is nothing “pale” about it.
God has given us different places and ways and circumstances to meet Him under… He may baptise some believer in the Holy Spirit, filling His Temple, while another child of his somewhere, is filled with the Body and Blood of Christ.
A third may have never tasted the Body and Blood but she is a saint who has a vision of Jesus who shows His heart to her. A fourth may be laying his hands on a leper and praying for healing for him, and at that moment he is truly united to Christ and gives the highest worship because of the compassion and love pouring through him. See, its interesting that God has many ways… and interesting that God has no favourites.

I have sometimes felt that because of the scisms, it seemed I was forced to choose between Christ and the Holy Spirit- But God always led me to many people from different churches, He let me know He walks right through the walls we built between us, and I recognised my brothers and I heard that they have truly met the living Christ and He lives in them. Many of them far surpass me in holiness and always have, even at the times where I went to daily mass, prayed on my knees for hours and was so in love with the Eucharist.
One of the most beautiful souls I met was Heidi Baker, an evangelical Mother Teresa, believe it or not.
I give you a glimpse of her here… this clip might give you chills:
youtube.com/watch?v=kDAimNXp0A8&feature=related

Peace.

I love Heidi Baker and Hillsong!

Praise the Lord!

 

[vz71]

There are so so so many, I would spam this whole thread trying to show you 1/10th of the “charismatic” praise in the Bible.

Fortunately there is a forum rule against that.

All of you people criticizing this poor girl for wanting to worship God and experience the joy it brings to the heart are being of poor spirit and not being very charitable.

The level of sarcasm evident in your comments on scripture runs contrary to any level of ‘love.’

 

[firstmode]

I’m reading this post (and here on this forum) because I am in the same boat. I was “raised Catholic” very loosely speaking, became Protestant in high school, and did not return to Catholicism until 9 years ago after marrying. I did have some real experiencing God moments in my involvement as a Protestant.

It wasn’t difficult, since it seems in every church except the Catholic Church people are friendly toward you and seek you out for your time and talent and to find where you fit into involvement in a ministry. Since returning to Catholicism, because I do believe it holds the fullness of truth, I have had the exact opposite experieince: I actually try to involve myself and either meet with indifference or am literally rebuffed. I am spiritually starving and my relationship with God is suffering. This is not one Catholic parish either; we have spent months trying to involve ourselves at no fewer than six since my husband went through RCIA six years ago. Sometimes we are chased off earlier than others by dowright rudeness. All in all there is a pervasive feeling that we are just faces in the crowd.

And here is where I am right now. Last summer, I attempted to volunteer with VBS and to take my daughter. After two days, we quit going. It was so ill-planned as to not be planned at all, dull and lifeless (I did what I could, but my ideas were not heeded). It was better for my daughter in my opinion to not go at all than to get the impression of the Church being like that, which was always my experience growing up. This summer, I put two of my children in VBS at a large Protestant parish nearby. The experience was amazing, I’ll skip the details here. I am very distressed that they cannot seem to have that kind of religious experience in the Catholic Church. I can tell them it’s wonderful everyday, but eventually they’re going to have to see for themselves.

Awhile back I heard a priest speak on EWTN about the complaint of “no fellowship”–he said maybe not, but we have the Real Presence–what is fellowship compared to that? Well my question is, how can we not have fellowship in spite of that? God did make our human nature to be very social.

I thought this was maybe just a regional problem! I also have blamed the Church being “so big,” but feeling the overwhelming warmth at that mega-church, that excuse isn’t going to fly anymore. I don’t know where to begin addressing it.

Awhile back I heard a priest speak on EWTN about the complaint of “no fellowship”–he said maybe not, but we have the Real Presence–what is fellowship compared to that?

WOW, what a joke. Why is the Catholic church not concerned with fellowship? How could a priest say this on a Catholic Channel? How is this allowed?

 

[vz71]

Awhile back I heard a priest speak on EWTN about the complaint of “no fellowship”–he said maybe not, but we have the Real Presence–what is fellowship compared to that?

WOW, what a joke. Why is the Catholic church not concerned with fellowship? How could a priest say this on a Catholic Channel? How is this allowed?

I agree.
How can we sit by and let this stuff be said without references to back it up?

 

[firstmode]

While we send our children to other churches for the ‘spritual starvation’ we believe is in our own, we should not be surprised if what they bring back is poisonous.

The answer to feeling starved in a Catholic church is not going to a protestant church.
That is the tradition of Luther, and it causes division.

The proper answer to any issue found within the church is found within the church.
Be it additional prayer, conferences with the pastor on the issue, or perhaps even stepping up to the plate and forming your own prayer group within the church to address these feelings.

Perhaps if we ceased “hoping that they’ll see something there they can bring back to the Catholic Church” and instead brought it ourselves…

You blame parents for sending their children where Christ is most present so they can come to know him? These churches being described are dry and dying places where people show up for their obligations out of fear and status among the other laymen, where the priests have such a bad grasp of the scriptures or just do not even really try so they present sermons that have no meaning to the laymen and are devoid of content to the point where people are BORED listening to them?

Descriptions of churches where they would rather pull their kids from the VBS program at the Catholic church so they WOULD NOT TURN ON CHURCH OR CHRIST later on in life because it was such a bad experience? You criticize these parents for wanting more for their kids? Where is the Bishop? Where are the priests and Deacons? They have a very important role to be praying constantly and to be in tune with the Holy Spirit for discernment so they can properly take care of their flock. You are trying to blame these parents for this stuff like it is their fault and they need to fix it? How can you expect a mother of 5 kids to fix the local church? Why is that her job? WHAT ABOUT THE FULL TIME CLERGY?

Imagine if a non-believer walks into the mess all these people are describing, you will chase them away to atheism or some other religion due to these cricumstances. Does the Catholic church even care about bringing in non-believers anymore?

 

[firstmode]

How inappropriate? It would/could be very wrong, well beyond inappropriate.
It is always difficult giving up a “feel good” experience for a more challenging one.
Yet feelings have nothing to do with it. By listening to the ‘old music’ you tempt YOU!

Visit a Catholic bookstore in person or on-line.
Choose some music that can be played at home or in your car.
As others have said, visit a few parishes for Mass on Sunday in the near future.
Most of all, welcome home to Rome!

Feel Good Experience? How insulting.

…

 

[firstmode]

Here is the quote that implies it…

She is talking about underage youth who are breaking civil laws by drinking alcohol and GETTING DRUNK I am sure, That is what was implied to me. Underage kids drinking = breaking the law = breaking God’s law. Kids getting drunk = breaking God’s law, breaking the law.

Were you in a YOUTH group when you were 21??? Most people are in a College Group around 18 or 19 years old. Youth is younger than 18…

 

[juliamajor]

I guess that I’m lucky, blessed.I have a really big parish, newly formed and lot’s of fellowship.I have been in different parishes with different pastors the one thing I discovered is the laity create the fellowship- they have to have the will to do it.I had some experience with not being fed .-but instead of kvetching about do somthing about it. Create a coffee hour, a welcoming committee, I started a Bible study.I have been involved with many activities because if you sit on your hands you can’t complain.I started out, years ago, as a complainer But since that accomplished nothing i became a doer.It may start small,you might falter-you could be opposed but if you really feel moved by God let nothing stop you soldier on.I’m proud to say that our new parish has already formedtwenty-five separte groups-`25!Some with a few - some with many, but the thing is to become connected to your fellow believer, to your Church and to God.To many times Catholics believe that their priest should form this or that.Do this or that.Do you really understand how busy these guys really are? By the end of the week these guys are exhausted.Then you expect him to create fellowshipping?You gotta get off your duff and get going!

 

[firstmode]

I guess that I’m lucky, blessed.I have a really big parish, newly formed and lot’s of fellowship.I have been in different parishes with different pastors the one thing I discovered is the laity create the fellowship- they have to have the will to do it.I had some experience with not being fed .-but instead of kvetching about do somthing about it. Create a coffee hour, a welcoming committee, I started a Bible study.I have been involved with many activities because if you sit on your hands you can’t complain.I started out, years ago, as a complainer But since that accomplished nothing i became a doer.It may start small,you might falter-you could be opposed but if you really feel moved by God let nothing stop you soldier on.I’m proud to say that our new parish has already formedtwenty-five separte groups-`25!Some with a few - some with many, but the thing is to become connected to your fellow believer, to your Church and to God.To many times Catholics believe that their priest should form this or that.Do this or that.Do you really understand how busy these guys really are? By the end of the week these guys are exhausted.Then you expect him to create fellowshipping?You gotta get off your duff and get going!

Are they too busy to believe that Demons are real and to preach sermons that teach and inform the laity to be the hands and feet of Christ to the world?

 

[vz71]

Are they too busy to believe that Demons are real and to preach sermons that teach and inform the laity to be the hands and feet of Christ to the world?

No, they are not.

And this has been demonstrated to me by the numerous sermons I have heard on these very topics.

Were you really expecting a different answer?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Firstmode,

I do not contest some of the Scriptural points you have made about worship, but you are going a bit over the top, here. Criticizing people with **loud shouts ** is not Christian, not in any denomination. Did Jesus go into the Pharisees meeting houses and laugh at and mock them?

I am a Christian who shouts and claps, who dances and jumps for joy, but I am quite certain that holiness is more precious to God than enthusiasm. Luckily, we can have both.

 

[firstmode]

Sorry guys. I was adding my emphasis at the end of those verses because so many seem to think they do not exist.

I am in the wrong.