A Catholic in a Protestant church

[firstmode]

No, they are not.

And this has been demonstrated to me by the numerous sermons I have heard on these very topics.

Were you really expecting a different answer?

I was going off of people posts about very bad homilies and how Grace’s Priest thinks demons are a mental disorder.

 

[vz71]

I was going off of people posts about very bad homilies and how Grace’s Priest thinks demons are a mental disorder.

Very often they could be.
It would be wise of any priest to approach it with a degree of skepticism.

I find it interesting that my church is taking flak on both sides of that particular argument.
On one hand it is criticized for some perception that demons are not real and on the other hand there is criticism for holding onto the Ancient Rite of Exorcism.

 

[firstmode]

Very often they could be.
It would be wise of any priest to approach it with a degree of skepticism.

I find it interesting that my church is taking flak on both sides of that particular argument.
On one hand it is criticized for some perception that demons are not real and on the other hand there is criticism for holding onto the Ancient Rite of Exorcism.

GO EXORCISM!!! KEEP IT CATHOLICS!!!

Acts 8:4-8

Philip in Samaria

4Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went. 5Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Christ[a]there. 6When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said. 7With shrieks, evil spirits came out of many**, and many paralytics and cripples were healed. 8So there was great joy in that city.**

 

[GraceDK]

She is talking about underage youth who are breaking civil laws by drinking alcohol and GETTING DRUNK I am sure, That is what was implied to me. Underage kids drinking = breaking the law = breaking God’s law. Kids getting drunk = breaking God’s law, breaking the law.

Were you in a YOUTH group when you were 21??? Most people are in a College Group around 18 or 19 years old. Youth is younger than 18…

Yes, we call it youth group here… even if we are 21 or more… what I meant was a group for young people. English is not my native language.
There is no breaking the law among these young people. Only I was criticising the lax attitude among many uncatechised young Catholics in my parish that use alcohol to get drunk sometimes, because the parish has been too liberal.

I have criticised my own Catholic Church in order to address issues among my brethren.
Dont get me started on the problems I have encountered in Evangelical assemblies like the one you belong to. It would not be appropriate… I have been a visitor to my brethren there and been blessed and humbled by them. I did not come to critizise. Even if there were things that did not work very well… as is the case in any place where humans gather. From your posts this far I get the feeling you dont come to help a brother or sister, but you come to mock.

Do not come in here to only critize anymore. It would not show humility on your part. I know you realise that because you have been baptised in the Holy Spirit and bear fruit in love. You are our brother but you forgot the brotherly greeting as you entered.

I will also say, there is music in the Catholic Church. I have sometimes felt transported into heaven and had chills up and down because of the beauty of that music… a kind of beauty I have not heard in other churches.

A Jewish friend of mine… I first time saw him he was kneeling on the floor infront of the priest, receiving the Body of Christ - he had searched around some, also in pentecostal churches, and used to be a Heredi Jew, the ultra orthodox ones, until one afternoon he stepped into an empty Catholic Church. In there he felt The Presense. This presense he had felt when many people were worshipping in the Pentecostal church together, or when many jews were praying at the Wailing Wall… now he was in this Church, all was silent, no one was around, but he was not alone.
This friend of mine is a Charismatic Catholic, and if you want my honest oppinion, I see charismatic catholicism as the most authentic form of Christianity… the one I truly believe Jesus intended.
I have been around alot. I went to a Pentecostal Church for one year and I loved it, but I never missed one mass for it… I befriended many different Christians and worshipped with them. Albeit all the beauty, the joy, fellowship and presense of God, I am still in the Catholic Church. You see, Jesus called me here and He met me and restored me again and again in the Catholic Church. He told me: “This is Truly My Body and if you eat it you will live by My Strength”. He saved my life. I can’t explain to you how.
But I want to say… we need you and you have many things right in your ways of worship. But you need us just the same… there are many things you dont even begin to grasp.

Peace be with you. I would like to invite you to some good Catholic Mass and worship with me and my friends on tuesday night, but I live in Europe so it might be too far for you.
Maybe you will bless us with your prayers? I admire the Pentecostal Church very much. Actually my favourite author is David du Plessis.

Grace - former protestant, saved into the Catholic Church, by a charismatic orthodox lay person with prophetic gift

Praying for unity in the Body <><

 

[mullenpm]

FirstMode, you don’t know what you are talking about when you say Catholics “throw out” the Psalms.

The Psalms are a part of every Mass said throughout the world every day at every hour; also, the Psalms are a major part of our Liturgy of the Hours said daily by all Religious Orders (Priests, Nuns, Brothers) and also a growing number of the Catholic Laity.

We definitely do not throw out the Psalms. :harp:

 

[juliamajor]

Are they too busy to believe that Demons are real and to preach sermons that teach and inform the laity to be the hands and feet of Christ to the world?

Demons exist but seeing them in everything or every where is foolish. with our fallen state a huge part of sins are people thought, people acted, people done.
Do priests look to psychiatry and modern medicne before they start think ing that demons are responsible for bizarre behavior.
With all the evil in the world- man created, the devil and demons don’t have to work very hard .

 

[peary]

I am seeking Catholic (name removed by moderator)ut before I make any major decisions here…but I really need help.

Basically, here’s the backstory.

I became a christian in a charismatic protestant church. I learned to love God in this environment, and while the theology of it all proved ultimately flawed, I thrived in that church.

I became a Catholic about 2 years ago when I was studying to be a pastor for said church in one of their biggest bible colleges. I just learned too much about scripture and church history, and had to admit the truth in it all. Having come to the fullness of faith, there was now a lot of intellectual food on my plate…but 2 years later things are going horribly wrong on the spiritual and relational side.

I don’t relate to my parish at all. There is literally no one there in my age group that speaks my language. This is due largely to the demographic of my area. Secondly, I am not getting the same “spiritual buzz” that I got from my pervious church. Yes, I get a big lift out of eucharist (how could anyone NOT), but lately…I’ve felt dried up and dead inside. Compared to how I used to be.

I love God. I love the Catholic church. I fully believe in the Catholic church and her teachings. I am wondering how inappropriate it would be to attend a contemporary charasmatic protestant service during the week so I can still remain a very active member in my parish. I would not take communion, and I would hold fast to the Catholic church. I am talking about going just for the musical worship parts. I so greatly miss that, and it feels like part of me is dying without it. I didn’t realize how bad it was until I started listening to those old worship choruses on my iPod.

So, would be be sinning or cut off from the church if I went to an adult contemporary, charismatic protestant worship service, but refuse to take communion or become a member of that particular church? This may also prove an effective way to meet christian friends of my own age (something I am desparately in need of).

It’s not what you ‘get’ out of it but what you ‘put in’ to it. All I read through in your post is what you got out of the protestant service but nothing about what you are putting in to your Catholic parish. Do you want entertainment or do you want the Eucharist?

I don 't think it would be sinful to attend the protestant worship service, but you are just creating more confusion for yourself. And there ARE Catholic charismatic Masses. You might have to go to another Catholic parish that has a charismatic group with a spiritual director (priest). Talk over this problem with your parish priest and see if he has any suggestions. That’s probably the best way to clarify the situation for yourself.

 

[catharina]

How do you KNOW the Eucharist is Christ?? You believe it because you’ve been taught it by mere men (the Pope and his cardinals)! Jesus himself said to do it in MEMORY of him, as a commemoration. He paid our debt as sinners once and for all on the Cross. The Mass involves a sacrifice again - continual sacrifice but Jesus’ sacrifice was a once off (if you read scripture you’ll see this as fact). Please - read and learn for yourself, don’t follow teachings blindly out of fear!! The Eucharist is extremely important - yes. However, it’s more important to ask God to fill you DAILY with the Holy Spirit, who leads you to all Truth. Take care.

How do I KNOW?
I "know " through the gift of faith - given by God Alone to all who ask for it.

The Eucharist exists as the Body and Blood of Christ, soul and divinity.

In John 6, we are told of the words of Jesus:

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. I AM the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. I AM the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” **So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. **For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.”

 

[mullenpm]

degrave, I am shocked at your post!

You list yourself as a “Catholic” which cannot be true because of the strongly worded post with respect to how we know Christ is in the Eucharist. Do you not believe in the True Presence in the Holy Eucharist?

You seem to lack respect for the teachings of the Pope, priests, etc.

Why is that? I would truly like to know why you do appear to not even like your own religion (if it is really your religion).

 

[mullenpm]

dgrave, Here I am again to challenge you. I missed this post of your’s before I responded to another of your posts, but now I understand that post.

You say you converted to the Catholic church at age 19 - you don’t say how old you are now.

Surely you attended classes for a year to become a Catholic before you were ready for Confirmation. Did you discuss your concerns stated here with your Priest or Director of the Classes before you were confirmed as a Catholic? If not, why not?

What exactly do you mean by “fire in the belly” (such an odd remark)? You must know that a remark like that is meaningless unless you say EXACTLY what your complaint is.

Also, EXACTLY how do Protestants keep more to the Word of God than do Catholics?

What man-made traditions do you object to? All Protestant religions are man-made, only the Catholic Church is directly descended from Jesus Christ.

Also, EXACTLY what do you mean by unselfconscious worship? Another complaint without meaning.:knight2::knight1:

Explain what you mean by all your complaints please.

 

[catharina]

degrave, I am shocked at your post!

You list yourself as a “Catholic” which cannot be true because of the strongly worded post with respect to how we know Christ is in the Eucharist. Do you not believe in the True Presence in the Holy Eucharist?

You seem to lack respect for the teachings of the Pope, priests, etc.

Why is that? I would truly like to know why you do appear to not even like your own religion (if it is really your religion).

Well said.
I share your questions.

 

[GraceDK]

vz71
I would like to finish our discussion by linking this talk by a Catholic priest who received something priceless through meeting some Pentecostal brothers many years ago. When I say priceless I mean priceless.
Why did God bring him to Pentecostals to get this something? I don’t know. Maybe to humble us Catholics.
Listen to the talk… it starts at the 8th minute of the soundlink on this url:
ipadre.net/2009/07/ipadre-159-no-spirit-no-church/

Peace and a blessed Sunday.

 

[vz71]

vz71
Why did God bring him to Pentecostals to get this something? I don’t know. Maybe to humble us Catholics.

Don’t know.
But I do know that whatever graces and blessings they found can readily be found within the Catholic church.
There is no need to go elsewhere, and it can be harmful to do so.

And I still arrive at the same conclusion. If you believe something is lacking, then bring it.

 

[GraceDK]

Don’t know.
But I do know that whatever graces and blessings they found can readily be found within the Catholic church.
There is no need to go elsewhere, and it can be harmful to do so.

And I still arrive at the same conclusion. If you believe something is lacking, then bring it.

I cannot bring the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has to be invited by the congregation and by the individual persons in the congregation.

I think you didnt listen to the talk. If you did, you might have another perspective. But you are intitled to your oppinion, and I am free to believe you dont have the full picture…

 

[mullenpm]

vz71, I must agree with you. I see no reason for a Catholic (upper case C) to attend services at any protestant church. They worship in empty buildings, granted with lots of arm waving and stamping of feet. Lots of feel good goings-on.:sad_yes:

No, the True Presence in the Blessed Sacrament is all that a Catholic would need. Sit in silence before the Blessed Sacrament and you will sit with the Lord Himself.

Some posters here who call themselves Catholic do not answer any questions put to them to explain their anti-Catholic remarks. Why? There are no answers. And there are other posters who have monopolized the thread with their own sermons trying to sway Catholics into their way of thinking. Won’t happen!!!:knight2::knight1:

 

[catharina]

I cannot bring the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has to be invited by the congregation and by the individual persons in the congregation.

I think you didnt listen to the talk. If you did, you might have another perspective. But you are intitled to your oppinion, and I am free to believe you dont have the full picture…

Grace, I’ve no doubt that the Holy Spirit inspires and leads the Catholic Church.
Are there practices that don’t especially please me? Maybe. People too? Maybe.
That’s my problem, not a flaw in the Church.

Now, my question for you is this:
Why do you call your religion ChristianCatholic? What is that?
The term means nothing to me. Maybe it’s used in Europe?

All Catholics are Christian. You must know that, yes?

 

[vz71]

I cannot bring the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has to be invited by the congregation and by the individual persons in the congregation.

The Holy Spirit is already present within the church.
Always has been. Just as the Eucharist and the Real Presence.
God is there in every way shape and form one could possibly ask for.

I am uncertain what to say to someone that claims they cannot feel the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit is so obviously there.

I think you didnt listen to the talk. If you did, you might have another perspective. But you are intitled to your oppinion, and I am free to believe you dont have the full picture…

I am not about to write any type of dissertation or book report to prove I have.
It would not matter anyway. I know I did. I heard plenty of confirmation of my position.

But your conviction affirms something to me.
You are convinced that people cannot listen to this podcast without suddenly agreeing with you. I wonder if it is this same stubbornness that leads you to believing that we must go to protestant church services to feel the Holy Spirit?

 

[GraceDK]

The Holy Spirit is already present within the church.
Always has been. Just as the Eucharist and the Real Presence.
God is there in every way shape and form one could possibly ask for.

I am uncertain what to say to someone that claims they cannot feel the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit is so obviously there.

I am not about to write any type of dissertation or book report to prove I have.
It would not matter anyway. I know I did. I heard plenty of confirmation of my position.

But your conviction affirms something to me.
You are convinced that people cannot listen to this podcast without suddenly agreeing with you. I wonder if it is this same stubbornness that leads you to believing that we must go to protestant church services to feel the Holy Spirit?

You may be perfect, have everything you need and could ever hope for in your faith life. You may have an awesome fellowship in your parish, all the charismatic gifts, a clear feeling of the Holy Spirit every time you are at Mass, see a lot of healings going on in your parish when you all pray over the sick etc etc. However, dont be surprised if some Catholic has to go to the parish next door from his own, to find something that he conctretely needs right now. I’ll give you an example. In my country we have an elderly couple who travel around preaching the simple gospel and praying for the sick. Thousands of people have been healed on their meetings. And I spread the word, because this is where my own faith journey sort of began. If I had said: No, I wont go to meetings of non-lutherans (I was lutheran at that time) then I would have never seen what God did through these people… its an extraordinary ministry. There is nothing like theirs among all the Catholics and Protestants combined in my country. Only these two non-denominational people. At the time where I met them I had NEVER witnessed everyone get healed in the name of Jesus before, ever. I thought it had not happend the last two thousand years. And oh the difference it made to see that!

I hope you do realise that the priest in the podcast became a better priest by getting in contact with a bunch of Pentecostals. He said, the Spirit was dormant in him - so you are right, the Spirit was already there - but it took this new approach and people and their prayer over him to release the Spirit.
So too I have experienced things in the non-denominational and pentecostal churches that I have simply not experienced or not in the same way, in the Catholic church. It has enriched me, even given me encouragement many times and taught me alot that I might otherwise never have learned.
This is a fact.
The church you have at your parish level is many times the measure of your own enthusiasm, prayerlife etc. If the parish is weak, you may suffer.

It seems to me that even the people who are really staying in dysfunctional parishes, you cant even agree that they should go once a week and sing and pray with some other christians, just because these are not catholics, even if it could help your catholic brother or sister.

That to me is just stubborness.
I have read into the charismatic renewal, and I am clear about the fact that God used these non-catholics greatly to preach this good news to Catholics. But if everyone had been as frigtened as you, I dont think the movement would have been here today.

 

[vz71]

You may be perfect, have everything you need and could ever hope for in your faith life. You may have an awesome fellowship in your parish, all the charismatic gifts, a clear feeling of the Holy Spirit every time you are at Mass, see a lot of healings going on in your parish when you all pray over the sick etc etc. However, dont be surprised if some Catholic has to go to the parish next door from his own, to find something that he conctretely needs right now.

It tells a lot about the conversation when the straw man is brought out.
If one pays careful attention to when it is brought out, and also pays attention to what form the straw man takes, much can be revealed about the conversation.

In this case, I have stuck by the fact that going to a protestant church is not necessary, the Mass contains what is needed, and that attending a protestant service to try to get whatever it is you feel may be missing from the Mass may well be harmful to you.
I have also taken to avoiding telling anyone that they are the problem as it may well be possible that their own church may well have issues, and I cannot know with certainty.

In the face of this, the straw man has been brought out.
The straw man takes the form of the the perfect person.
Now in this instance, they straw man was prefaced with ‘you may be’ which is meant to offer the out should someone call them on it. But really does nothing as the comparison is in fact being drawn against the perfect person.

So what exactly is being said when someone tries to justify their actions by comparing themselves to pefection?
I have heard it many times in my workplace, in my school, in the church…‘well nobody is perfect.’ Don’t judge me, nobody’s perfect.
That is right. No one is. But the point is not that we are not perfect so we do what we want to do…the point is that none of us are, so we continue to strive towards it.

We cannot strive to perfection by attending protestant services to make up for what is perceived to be missing in the Mass. We strive to perfection by bringing with us everything to the Mass.

My priest wrote an article in the church bulletin for this weekend that addressed this very topic. In it he mentioned that both churches in the area will now be opened every Sunday. With the joke out of the way, he mentioned that many people do not go to Mass except on Easter and Christmas. That the most often quoted reason was that ‘They don’t get anything out of Mass.’
Which then led in this article to the most profound insight…that we get out of it what we put into it. To quote my own priest…“If you go to Mass expecting nothing, you are likely going to get it.”

 

[GraceDK]

It We cannot strive to perfection by attending protestant services to make up for what is perceived to be missing in the Mass. We strive to perfection by bringing with us everything to the Mass.

My priest wrote an article in the church bulletin for this weekend that addressed this very topic. In it he mentioned that both churches in the area will now be opened every Sunday. With the joke out of the way, he mentioned that many people do not go to Mass except on Easter and Christmas. That the most often quoted reason was that ‘They don’t get anything out of Mass.’
Which then led in this article to the most profound insight…that we get out of it what we put into it. To quote my own priest…“If you go to Mass expecting nothing, you are likely going to get it.”

Dare I suggest that you take the priests words and scrutinize yourself?
It seems you dont expect anything at all from a protestant/evangelical services. You in fact believe it would not benefit you at all, because you already have everything these other congregations might bring you. So you don’t want to visit them and you deter others from doing so, because you your self would indeed get nothing out of it.

I tell you I got a lot of things out of it. Even things that I have not seen nor experienced in the Catholic Church. You can’t miss something if you have no idea it exists or if your heart is closed.
But when it has come in to your life in its beauty you appreciate it and it blesses you.

As for bringing everything with us to the Mass. We come as the frail people we are, full of needs. We offer our lives in prayer and worship, all that we are, indeed. But we also need encouragement, we need to be restored, we need the living word, we need the healing and the prophesy and all the things Jesus and His apostles exemplified…

You once said: “Then go talk to your priest”. I did. One said: “I am not supposed to preach, only give a homily… talk about repentance from sin?.. oh no, that might disturb some poor soul”.
I have been called a fanatic from the beginning by priests that believed in women in the priesthood, who called mouth communion “unhygienic”, slandered “the passion of the Christ”, called demons psychic phenomena, and told me that it was just nonsense when I told them I had seen dozens of healings at an evangelical crusade.
I have voiced my concern as I saw young people falling away or living in sin… but as a young lay woman I have nothing to say, and I was scolded for my lack of tolerance.

This is far from everything… but I wish to say no further.

If you can just walk into your parish church and make it truly apostolic then I congratulate you. Here it’s somewhat more difficult.
I am happy I am leaving shortly, because my faithlife does suffer when I find my self at places where the church acts like a social clup instead of as a powerful tool of the Holy Spirit in word and deed.