A Catholic told me it's the psychologists fault for scandals

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hasikelee

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Hey, the other day I had a Catholic tell me he is very angry about the sex-abuse scandals. He went on to say,

“Everyone blames the leaders who moved the abusive priests around, but they did it at the advice of “professionals” who were secular psychologists and doctors.”

Has anyone ever heard of this, or is there evidence?

I can see how, if he is correct in some or all cases, that would make one angry. If a medical professional gave medical advice, should that professional be held accountable? E.g. in the case of how to treat an abusive person or if they were “healed.”

Thoughts?
 
It’s been awhile since I’ve come upon a source but that is one of the explanations I’ve heard.

The closest thing I could direct you to now is William Coulson. HLI has tapes of some of his talks. You are familiar with Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs, yes? One of the things he discusses is how Maslow did not think it was a good thing for that to be applied to the general public the way it has been. It’s been abused.

These are some links that I found on the the fly:

issuesetc.org/resource/journals/coulson.htm

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1922797/posts

cfpeople.org/Apologetics/page51a080.html

He discusses how humanistic psychology has negativity affected the church and society. One quote I (vaguely) remember is about how a priest was able to rationalize that it was his right to molest because it was something that felt right to him.*

From one of the links above:
Our grant had been for three years, but we called off the study after two, because we were alarmed about the results. We thought we could make the IHM’s better than they were; and we destroyed them." “The proof of authenticity on the humanistic psychology model is to go against what you were trained to be, to call all of that phoniness, and to say what is deepest within you. What’s deepest within you, however, are certain unrequited longings, including sexual longings. We provoked an epidemic of sexual misconduct among clergy and therapists.”
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hasikelee said:
“Everyone blames the leaders who moved the abusive priests around, but they did it at the advice of “professionals” who were secular psychologists and doctors.”
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Why do bishops call themselves Christian ‘leaders’ if they are blindly following secular advice?
 
The bishops tried to be modern and relied on the ideas of a developing science rather than the tried an true spiritual methods handed to them from 2000 years of experience.
 
Francine_Peters said:
Why do bishops call themselves Christian ‘leaders’ if they are blindly following secular advice?
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Well, in the context of my conversation with him, he was talking specifically of priest who had been “found out” or reported. Their bishop would have them go see a pyschologist who would then say everything was okay or that the priest had been healed.
 
hasikelee said:
Hey, the other day I had a Catholic tell me he is very angry about the sex-abuse scandals. He went on to say,

“Everyone blames the leaders who moved the abusive priests around, but they did it at the advice of “professionals” who were secular psychologists and doctors.”

Has anyone ever heard of this, or is there evidence?

I can see how, if he is correct in some or all cases, that would make one angry. If a medical professional gave medical advice, should that professional be held accountable? E.g. in the case of how to treat an abusive person or if they were “healed.”

Thoughts?
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Actually, I generally hear it is a weakness in the application of Confession in Catholic Theology vs the real world. The discussion goes that if they confess in Church they are free and clear, yet for acts like have come out, a second step in reporting to the local authorities should still have been done. Yet often Bishops and higher see themselves apart from the civil law which is why many bounced parishes with sad results.
 
Psychologists are required by law to report any type of abuse; they have no authority to say that someone is fine and send them back out to others. Any psychologist that did that would face a LOT of trouble with the law and probably lose their ability to practice psychology as well.
 
hasikelee said:
Hey, the other day I had a Catholic tell me he is very angry about the sex-abuse scandals. He went on to say,
Thoughts?
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I need glasses… or to learn to read.

I thought the subject line said “it’s the psychologists fault for sandals”

… and I couldn’t figure out HOW a psychologists mattered in what any one chose for footware!:o

Y’all have a wunnerful weekend.

Merry Christmas
 
I had a very intense conversation with our pastor on the subject. Actually, both of them. I raked the first on over the coals…he actually agreed with what I was saying…but I’ll save that for some other time [thank you very much]. The second priest was actually the pastor and he ellaborated what the thinking was back then. Interesting, I went to him to ***** some more about what happened to me while a seminarian. Talk about throwing your own babies out. I was 18 when my spiritual director made a pass on me in my sleep [long story dealing with a very naive and very young man:o ]. I didn’t realize what was happenig until it happened. Anyway. I turned him in after expriencing lots of major anxiety and right before flunky all my finals. The diocese acted concerned only briefly. No one offered me counseling…? Why? I’ll never let them off the hood for that and I’ll tell you why in a bit.

My anxiety led me to engaging in some really despirate acts. You have to realize the atmosphere of the seminary back then in the late 70’s early 80’s. There were lots of signs of homosexual orientation…very disturbing…causing lots of doubts. I began to believe they wanted it that way. The seminarian that tried to get to me…I finally realized and rejected him leaving him angry. He got angry when some young girl down the road kept throwing herself at me…I had no problem resisting, though it was tough at times. I only went to their house on occasion. Hind sight 20/20 I would never allow someone to visit them like that in my own domestic church without strong words against it. I got so frantic that I was so scandalized I felt that I had to prove I was heterosexual and for some reason the sacrifice of celibacy suddenly felt dirty. Why? Because sacrificing a healthy heterosexual …Godly…relationship felt like I had something to offer up. But to offer up avoid the near occasion of same sex seemed very dirty and sleezy. I wasn’t gay…I met a girl that summer…and like a knucklehead did some pretty stupid things that led to almost a 4 year relationship hiding behind her skirt to prove I was not gay.

Okay…she was 2 years younger than me, from a large Catholic family, Catholic school, everything, but she had a gay friend and I really tried not to dislike or “hate” homosexuals so I bent over backwards [metaphorically] not to have hard feelings against the guy. But of course at a party he hit on me a bit for some reason [apparently I wasn’t a bad looking guy but didn’t realize it back then] After talking with another friend [they always get wierded out because I went to the seminary] I mentioned the priest’s name and they said that he hit on a lots of them [the boys sophmores, juniors at least] in High School. :eek: Flags went up all over the place. It scared me even further from the idea of returning to the seminary. The diocese abandoned me leaving me out to dry on my own hoping I’d crawl in a hole somewhere and die…so it seemed to me. …Another lost priest…who’s fault is this one…the Bishop’s. There’s more to it…but this in a nut shell addresses the underlying method of deception, hide and seek with bad priests.

When I went home for summer break, and after going to a seminarian retreat, I received a call that ended up with me telling them I have a girlfriend now and won’t be attending the seminary again. Flags should have gone up for them…but NOOOOOoooOOOoo, it was better to let me suffer long term away so they could get past the statue of limitations and avoid a public scandal altogether. I would have never sought financial restitution. Danger Danger Danger Will Robinson… 4 years later, further in debt and no way out…thinking I should have returned to the seminary I joined to the military to figure out what to do with my life. Coming home from leave I discovered the priest had been laicized by his own choice.:confused: :mad: Anotherone bites the dust. Fast forward to wanting to return to the seminary, I met my now wife…left the Cahtolic Church and that is in a nut shell why I thought Catholics were condemned to hell…for not standing up for the weak. Still feel that way a bit…but I can’t deny the fact that this Church was the original…Finding the Orthodox made me want to go Orthodox rather than Catholic…[more long stories tied into this experience]
 
Breathe…The pastor at my now Parish was the brother/priest now up in Pennsylvania that informed parents of his sick advances on children… please no names… Now that I understand the story further… That priest had almost a 1000 victims…:eek: My pastor explained that they just didn’t know back then what they know now. But he was “ordered” to “keep his mouth shut”. He told me about vows of obedience and said that isn’t obedience… So he continued to tell the parents why their children were acting out loud and disturbed in a “good Catholic school” *. The Bishop would not pay him until about 14 months later after his order fought to get the money…it was and still is a “POWER PLAY”. Frankly that generation of bishops need to just die and get replaced. The old school does not work…proven here.

But this candid honesty is what helped me truly come to grips with stopping to seek the Eastern Orthodox Church because I still feel called to the priesthood and it frankly is really painful. Ever lost a girlfriend or a spouse… That is what I feel constantly. I love my new Catholic wife…but deep down I know I should have been a priest. It’s causing me lots of distraction in my job since I returned last year. I fear that I’m losing my grip on the situation constantly overcoming feelings of “hopeless dreams of a broken heart”. Pray for me please. It is very difficult and why I nearly snapped the head off of our paster when he asked my son if he ever thought about a vocation to the priesthood. I said NO!!! quietly but outloud in so many ways. But now have come to grips in realizing that this could be my blessing… So now I’m looking seriously at the diaconate to fill in the empty hole I constantly fill up with prayer [Divine Office and Rosary].

The Bishops are only human… They seek professional help too. At one point I hoped the priesthood would just die out…now in my penetent heart I pray constantly for the increase in vocations to the priesthood and religious life. I pray for orthodox priests and Bishops…and deacons [another knucklehead]. I pray for God to have mercy on me for feeling the way I do…and pray for him to draw vocations from all of my children…nothing would please me greater than for all of my children to forgo marriage and become priests or religious.*
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
Actually, I generally hear it is a weakness in the application of Confession in Catholic Theology vs the real world. The discussion goes that if they confess in Church they are free and clear, yet for acts like have come out, a second step in reporting to the local authorities should still have been done. Yet often Bishops and higher see themselves apart from the civil law which is why many bounced parishes with sad results.
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This is the reason a bishop, or other superior, may not hear the confession of his subordinates. This prevents the Confessional seal from becoming involved in these matters.
 
Makes since…Bishops don’t hear confessions of subordinates. But that does not mean he can’t talk to them… He can refuse or defer and thus avoid that scenario. That’s probably why it took so long to get rid of a seminarian I knew. They actually let him graduate…2 of his previous victims went through shock therapy or were on some serious medication. When I found out why they were in that condition I came down hard on him…
This issue is difficult and also existed/exists in the various Protestant faiths. I believe we call this the human condition or more precisely the result of original sin.
 
Alycin said:
Psychologists are required by law to report any type of abuse; they have no authority to say that someone is fine and send them back out to others. Any psychologist that did that would face a LOT of trouble with the law and probably lose their ability to practice psychology as well.
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Agreed. But this was not always the case.
 
While there is plenty of blame to go around (and the media is being coy about this point), I’d rather the Church leadershsip take ownership of it all and redress the injustices and make sure they don’t happen again.
 
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