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1962Missal
Guest
Yup.
The quote from Basil the Great A.D. 375 should have read:
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The quote from Basil the Great A.D. 375 should have read:
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1962Missal
Guest
I’ve always understood perfection, in this context, to mean the Beatific Vision.
Justin
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bengal_fan
Guest
i don’t know what that is?
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1962Missal
Guest
newadvent.org/cathen/02364a.htm
catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd01076.htm
For an in depth study: adishakti.org/pdf_files_2/beatific_vision_%28catholic-church.org%29.pdf
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Britta
Guest
Keeping in mind that this chapter follows chapter 12 wherein Paul discusses unity, one body, various gifts, love, etc., the following was quoted from my commentary:
1 Cor 13:8-11 “charity is eternal, but the gifts are transitory and temporal. There will be no need or use for them in heaven, just as a man has no use for toys of his childhood.”
To me, it means that we are sinful and fall short in this world, but we have been given spiritual gifts to aid us in our sinful state. However, when we meet Him face to face, the perfect has come.
When Paul makes the comparison of one who sees his reflection in a mirror vs. actually seeing oneself, he relates that to us having a perfect “vision” or “knowledge” of God vs. “actual” perfection of God and perfect love.
Although we have the fullness of Truth through scripture and tradition, this is still simply a mirror vision of that Truth. There are many things He has yet to reveal when we are ready to bear it (John 16:12).
Paul states in 1 Cor 3:2-3 the very same thing. “[2]…because you were unable to take it. Indeed, you are still not able, even now, [3] for you are still in the flesh.” Our bodies are temporary, all things of this world are temporary, and while we are in the flesh, we have not attained perfection in Christ. However, He has given us sacraments to achieve perfection to the best of our ability in our fallen state.
God Bless
1 Cor 13:8-11 “charity is eternal, but the gifts are transitory and temporal. There will be no need or use for them in heaven, just as a man has no use for toys of his childhood.”
To me, it means that we are sinful and fall short in this world, but we have been given spiritual gifts to aid us in our sinful state. However, when we meet Him face to face, the perfect has come.
When Paul makes the comparison of one who sees his reflection in a mirror vs. actually seeing oneself, he relates that to us having a perfect “vision” or “knowledge” of God vs. “actual” perfection of God and perfect love.
Although we have the fullness of Truth through scripture and tradition, this is still simply a mirror vision of that Truth. There are many things He has yet to reveal when we are ready to bear it (John 16:12).
Paul states in 1 Cor 3:2-3 the very same thing. “[2]…because you were unable to take it. Indeed, you are still not able, even now, [3] for you are still in the flesh.” Our bodies are temporary, all things of this world are temporary, and while we are in the flesh, we have not attained perfection in Christ. However, He has given us sacraments to achieve perfection to the best of our ability in our fallen state.
God Bless
M
MariaG
Guest
Thanks Dave,
I didn’t know that scripture was used for Scripture alone. At least now I can see where an argument for it is. (I don’t agree with it, but I can see how it could be misinterpreted that way.) I don’t know the “official” position of the church, but mine has run along the same lines as the others, just not as clearly defined.
God Bless
I didn’t know that scripture was used for Scripture alone. At least now I can see where an argument for it is. (I don’t agree with it, but I can see how it could be misinterpreted that way.) I don’t know the “official” position of the church, but mine has run along the same lines as the others, just not as clearly defined.
God Bless
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ReddScapular
Guest
The Bible Verse is 2 Tim 3 V15. I think that is one of the most misunderstood verses in the Bible. It does not say Sola Scriptura but that the Old Testament is useful for guiding one closer to God.
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Stylteralmaldo
Guest
Yes. That’s the one I was referring to. The Sadducees thought they knew their scripture and tried to trap Christ. They failed miserably.
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ferdie
Guest
Originally Posted by homer Why did God bother to give us his word preserved in a written format? When we are talking about the Bible we’re not talking about an ordinary book or a magazine; it is the Word of God given to men by the Holy Spirit. Why shouldn’t be enough for us?
I think your are forgetting something. The word of God is not just preserved in its written form but also in its oral form. Remember the Holy Spirit? Well He also preserved the oral form of the word of God. So it is not enough for us Catholics because it can be distorted by proud people who rely on their own capability, God saw that. So we need a teacher who can guide us and teach us. And who is that designated teacher? The church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ! You see my friend if Jesus wanted it preserved only in the written form, Don’t you think it will be wise for Him to just write it Himself and explain it too to His disciples and tell them not to add anything to it. Hey I’m not an apologist but I do know that the bible needs an interpreter. I’m pretty sure that you didn’t interpret the whole bible by yourself, but you had a teacher who guided you. We both learned from a teacher. The only difference is that my teacher has the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit not to teach in error.
I think your are forgetting something. The word of God is not just preserved in its written form but also in its oral form. Remember the Holy Spirit? Well He also preserved the oral form of the word of God. So it is not enough for us Catholics because it can be distorted by proud people who rely on their own capability, God saw that. So we need a teacher who can guide us and teach us. And who is that designated teacher? The church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ! You see my friend if Jesus wanted it preserved only in the written form, Don’t you think it will be wise for Him to just write it Himself and explain it too to His disciples and tell them not to add anything to it. Hey I’m not an apologist but I do know that the bible needs an interpreter. I’m pretty sure that you didn’t interpret the whole bible by yourself, but you had a teacher who guided you. We both learned from a teacher. The only difference is that my teacher has the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit not to teach in error.
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ferdie
Guest
Originally posted by Homer
Back to the electronic device manual example; would the company give you a manual that will make you unable to finish the job of installing the device? Of course not!
My friend if you will check the electronic device manuals that you have, most says that if there’s a problem, question or need assistance contact the manufacturer. Now since you made a comparison between an electronic device manual and the bible, then I can also say that if I have a problem, question or need assistance of understanding the meaning of the scripture, I can call the manufacturer ( the church) and have them explain it in detail to me since I am poor in understanding. Don’t you think our Lord is so wise not to leave us orphans, specially us poor in understanding?
Back to the electronic device manual example; would the company give you a manual that will make you unable to finish the job of installing the device? Of course not!
My friend if you will check the electronic device manuals that you have, most says that if there’s a problem, question or need assistance contact the manufacturer. Now since you made a comparison between an electronic device manual and the bible, then I can also say that if I have a problem, question or need assistance of understanding the meaning of the scripture, I can call the manufacturer ( the church) and have them explain it in detail to me since I am poor in understanding. Don’t you think our Lord is so wise not to leave us orphans, specially us poor in understanding?
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Didn’t you know, Jesus and St. Paul used the King James Bible! If its good enough for them, its good enough for you too!:yup:You need an instruction manual for the Manual(i.e. The catechism)
Question, what did the early christians do for the first 373 years of christianity? Wander around aimlessly?
(Yes, I’ve heard them say it in Baptist churches)
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AmandaPS
Guest
Around here, I’ve seen “If it ain’t King James, it ain’t Bible,” and “If English was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me.”Didn’t you know, Jesus and St. Paul used the King James Bible! If its good enough for them, its good enough for you too!:yup:
(Yes, I’ve heard them say it in Baptist churches)
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Mfaustina1
Guest
How about “Why the Bible?”Why do we rely on the Bible alone? The Koran claims inspiration, the Book of Mormon claims inspiration, the writings within the Watchtower are claimed to be “inspired prophecies”, so how can the Protestant even know the Bible ALONE is of itself THE ONLY inspired Word of God? It didn’t just drop out of Heaven like manna in the desert. So, why the Bible at all?
disclaimer to Homer- This post does not imply that I do not revere and respect Sacred Scripture so please do not place a thought or sentiment in my head and heart that is not there. It has been my experience that when certain Protestants are questioned on their stand regarding the Bible that we Catholics somehow disrespect the Bible as God’s revelation which we do not. We respect God’s written revelation and the Church that He established through Jesus Christ. -Peace! -Mfaustina1
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