A challenge to Anglicans who believe this.

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nonjuror said:
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I am not going to get in to a row about our Bishops! As Anglicans we hold to the Faith once delivered to the Saints,we hold to the seven ecumenical councils and we have preserved the Deposit intact! We hold to the Catholic Creeds and Scriptures and have Catholic orders.

Luckily our Catholicity doesn’t depend on our separated or even our weaker bretheren’ s say so.

But I find it rich coming from people whose church stems from the Council of Trent in 1564. This is when the Roman See led a coup and their supporters in Europe allowed their responsibilities to be usurped by the Bishop of that See,Rome.
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Very well put.
 
nonjuror said:
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I am not going to get in to a row about our Bishops! As Anglicans we hold to the Faith once delivered to the Saints,we hold to the seven ecumenical councils and we have preserved the Deposit intact! We hold to the Catholic Creeds and Scriptures and have Catholic orders.

Luckily our Catholicity doesn’t depend on our separated or even our weaker bretheren’ s say so.

But I find it rich coming from people whose church stems from the Council of Trent in 1564. This is when the Roman See led a coup and their supporters in Europe allowed their responsibilities to be usurped by the Bishop of that See,Rome.
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Regarding the Women Priests and the rest!

Whilst we regret these departures from the Faith, by the Anglican Communion, following the teachings of the fathers we have separated from our ,‘fallen,’ bretheren and put ourselves under bishops in the Catholic Tradition. Not Roman or Orthodox, but Catholic Anglicans. The fact remains that we are still Anglicans with a two thousand year old claim to the Church and Faith.
 
nonjuror said:
Regarding the Women Priests and the rest!

Whilst we regret these departures from the Faith, by the Anglican Communion, following the teachings of the fathers we have separated from our ,‘fallen,’ bretheren and put ourselves under bishops in the Catholic Tradition. Not Roman or Orthodox, but Catholic Anglicans. The fact remains that we are still Anglicans with a two thousand year old claim to the Church and Faith.
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absolutely.
 
nonjuror said:
Regarding the Women Priests and the rest!

Whilst we regret these departures from the Faith, by the Anglican Communion, following the teachings of the fathers we have separated from our ,‘fallen,’ bretheren and put ourselves under bishops in the Catholic Tradition. Not Roman or Orthodox, but Catholic Anglicans. The fact remains that we are still Anglicans with a two thousand year old claim to the Church and Faith.
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Universal in England?

Hmm.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Universal in England?

Hmm.
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Members of Christ and Children of God.
If I understand you aright we have never claimed to be the Catholic Church in its entirety we leave that to others, we are only a manifestation of it.

We are a Communion of Catholics within the Universal Church though.

Let me say that I am not going to dispute, on this board, with you on this subject. As I was taught,‘sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof!’
 
Anglicans are Protestants not Catholics. They are Protestant because they protested against the Head of the Universal and Catholic church who is the Pope in Rome. The Idea that the Catholic Church in Rome was started with the Council of Trent is nonsense. The term Roman Catholic Church is a misnomer invented by Anti Catholic Forces at the time of the so called Reformation.
 
Howman said:
Anglicans are Protestants not Catholics. They are Protestant because they protested against the Head of the Universal and Catholic church who is the Pope in Rome. The Idea that the Catholic Church in Rome was started with the Council of Trent is nonsense. The term Roman Catholic Church is a misnomer invented by Anti Catholic Forces at the time of the so called Reformation.
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I’ll be nice and let someone else handle this. 🙂
 
nonjuror said:
Regarding the Women Priests and the rest!

Whilst we regret these departures from the Faith, by the Anglican Communion, following the teachings of the fathers we have separated from our ,‘fallen,’ bretheren and put ourselves under bishops in the Catholic Tradition. Not Roman or Orthodox, but Catholic Anglicans.
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And these “Catholic” bishops can’t agree among themselves–there is an endless alphabet soup of conservative Anglican groups. There’s something wrong with the doctrine of Catholicity at work here. There has to be more to it than just hands on heads.

Edwin
 
Howman said:
Anglicans are Protestants not Catholics. They are Protestant because they protested against the Head of the Universal and Catholic church who is the Pope in Rome. The Idea that the Catholic Church in Rome was started with the Council of Trent is nonsense. The term Roman Catholic Church is a misnomer invented by Anti Catholic Forces at the time of the so called Reformation.
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Well you pays your money and takes your turn I think! But I must say that I was taught that a Protestant, classicly, is a Lutheran. Mind you in this country the Roman Church used the terms Protestant Dissenting Catholic to describe themselves to the authorities. It makes one wonder if Rome isn’t all things to all men?

I didn’t say the Catholic Church in Rome was started anywhere!
I said that the group now called the Roman Catholic Church was formed as a result of political pressure at Trent in or about 1564. While the Roman Church in England came about in 1570 as a result of a schism , fostered by the pope. Whichever way we look at it the Roman Catholic Church is a new creation.
 
Contarini said:
And these “Catholic” bishops can’t agree among themselves–there is an endless alphabet soup of conservative Anglican groups. There’s something wrong with the doctrine of Catholicity at work here. There has to be more to it than just hands on heads.

Edwin
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Well, I can see why you are an Episcopalian.

Friend we were told by the Councils to put our selves under the protection of Catholic Bishops and we did. Time and the Holy Ghost will sort out the problems. One thing I can assure you, speaking for myself , I doubt that I shall ever be a ,'tame Roman," like some.
 
Contarini said:
And these “Catholic” bishops can’t agree among themselves–there is an endless alphabet soup of conservative Anglican groups. There’s something wrong with the doctrine of Catholicity at work here. There has to be more to it than just hands on heads.

Edwin
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Exactly. The obsession with obtaining “valid” Orders among breakaway Anglicans is legendary: a valid bishop in every garage (my daughter’s beloved Godfather is one of 'em, so don’t accuse me of not knowing whereof I speak). As you point out, this physical ‘validity’ does not translate into the unity of teaching and stability of discipline that Apostolic Succession is supposed to assure.
 
nonjuror said:
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Well, I can see why you are an Episcopalian.

Friend we were told by the Councils to put our selves under the protection of Catholic Bishops and we did. Time and the Holy Ghost will sort out the problems. One thing I can assure you, speaking for myself , I doubt that I shall ever be a ,'tame Roman," like some. Or a Neo Anglican such as the Canterbury Communion lot are.
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Nonjuror.

Mind you the Nonjurors split initially into 3 or 4 separate groups not
counting our American bretheren.
 
mercygate said:
Exactly. The obsession with obtaining “valid” Orders among breakaway Anglicans is legendary: a valid bishop in every garage (my daughter’s beloved Godfather is one of 'em, so don’t accuse me of not knowing whereof I speak). As you point out, this physical ‘validity’ does not translate into the unity of teaching and stability of discipline that Apostolic Succession is supposed to assure.
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Why is it that you ,‘Trentists’ are so spiteful? Why are you so unsure of your selves if you have so much truth and antiquity behind you?
Could it be deep down that you know and resent the truth?
Can you remember that quote from scripture about prefer ing to be a door keeper in God’s House?

In the Roman Church only the see of Rome has antiquity.
 
nonjuror said:
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Why is it that you ,‘Trentists’ are so spiteful? Why are you so unsure of your selves if you have so much truth and antiquity behind you?
Could it be deep down that you know and resent the truth?
Can you remember that quote from scripture about prefer ing to be a door keeper in God’s House?

In the Roman Church only the see of Rome has antiquity.
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This comment does not address my statement. The Catholic Church acknowledges the antiquity and validity of all the Orthodox Churches, and even some of the fringier Oriental ones with off-center theologies.

I was specifically addressing the absurd proliferation of “valid” orders in the Anglican Continuum, with which I am INTIMATELY familiar and have been since the Synod of St. Louis. As I mentioned, my daughter’s Godfather is a bishop in the Continuum. I have many very good friends in the Continuum. None of them nastily refers to the Catholic Church as “Trentists” or proposes some of the outlandish versions of history you propose. (Although my daughter’s Godfather is convinced that Jesus spent his boyhood in Cornwall.)

I don’t know what you are getting at with that “doorkeeper” query. It is because “I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of the Lord than dwell in the tents of Kedar” [note: Coverdale translation from the '28 BCP] that I am now Catholic. I hold the M.Div. from an Episcopal seminary. I have nothing but affection for the church that brought me to Christ, the church that made me a catholic, the church that enabled me to grow in manageable steps to the point that I could take that final step into the Catholic Church without reservation.
 
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