A Challenge to Our Intelligence.

[Lapell]

Matthew might have got this story from probably two different people, by hearsay so to speak! I doubt the priests themselves would have told him themselves…

 

[Lapell]

Bob Crowley;5676315:

**My views are based on NT evidences and Jewish way of life. You cannot push the writings of Hellenistic Gentiles on me and expect me to accept them without question. The foundation for the origin of Christianity is Paul, and that’s what is written. I didn’t write it and I cannot changed it. (Acts 11:26) **

Then your people, the Jews, are not the ones who received the Torah from God. Your people certainly has stolen it to the Israelites!!!
Seriously, Ben! Just because the term Christians appears only then, it doesn’t mean that Christianity as a faith just started there… no more than the Jewish faith only started when they were first called Jews instead of israelites or even something like Judeans…

 

[Lapell]

Ben Masada;5676457:

Then your people, the Jews, are not the ones who received the Torah from God. Your people certainly has stolen it to the Israelites!!!
Seriously, Ben! Just because the term Christians appears only then, it doesn’t mean that Christianity as a faith just started there… no more than the Jewish faith only started when they were first called Jews instead of israelites or even something like Judeans…

It didn’t just start when they started calling your faith “Judaism” some hundreds years ago, did it?

 

[humble_maid]

A Challenge to Our Intelligence

That’s about another puzzle that has been insulting our intelligence for 2000 years: The Roman guards who were asked of Pilate to watch the tomb for three days.(Mat. 27:64)

According to the writer of the gospel of Matthew, the chief priests had to break the Sabbath and, worse than that, a Shabbaton, because it was the first day of Passover, the 14th of Nisan, to go deal with Pilate about surveillance of a dead in the graveyard.

This is an evidence that the guys who wrote the gospels had a very poor knowledge of Jewish culture and customs to picture religious Jewish priests dealing with Pilate on that Sabbath for a group of soldiers to guard the tomb and to prevent anyone from desecrating it.

So, those priests were supposed to take those soldiers to the graveyard, which priests were forbidden to enter, especially on the Sabbath, and do the physical work to seal the tombstone. And all during that Shabbaton.

When that Sabbath was over, which in Israel is at sunset, the same gospel writer sends some women to the tomb with the purpose to anoint Jesus’ body. The man had probably forgotten the guards to prevent the approach of any suspect.

The women had one thought in mind only: Who would remove the tombstone. No one thought about how to fight the soldiers to approach the tomb. Obviously they would know they were there. Evidently, the three days they were supposed to watch the tomb turned out to be one.

When the women got there the place was deserted. Instead of the guards, the author reports about an earthquake, when an angel came down from heaven and removed the stone; but the women could not do their job, because there was no one in the tomb; Jesus was not there. Even the angel had been cheated form being an eyewitness.

Obviously, Jesus had been removed from that tomb even before the guards had been settled at the area to watch.

Then the soldiers that the women had not seen at the tomb, appeared at the house of the priests to say that the tomb was empty and of course, to get a good bribe with the advice to spread around that while they were sleeping, Jesus’ disciples had come by night and stolen the body. That’s the insult to the intelligence even of a moron, let alone to those who have a mind to think.

How could intelligent Jews give such an advice? How could the soldiers know that the tomb robbers had been Jesus’ disciples if they had been sleeping? What about Roman military discipline? The soldiers would all be executed according to Roman military laws. Josephus, who would go down to small details even of family intrigues, never mentioned a word about such a thing.

That’s the puzzle that has been insulting our intelligence for too long. Any suggestions?

Ben

Hello Ben,

I would think that you would be proud of Jesus. Afterall he was Jewish. His ascendency is recorded right down to Abraham. He is one of you and one of the most beloved men in history. How is that something to feel threatened by? Alas I will try to explain the situation here;

1. Jesus was killed on Good Friday 15th of nisan. He instituted the last supper on the 14 nisan or Passover.
2. His body disappeared in the early morning of the following sunday which I presume the Shabbaton or Sabbath had already ended.
3. Furthermore regardless whether you think the writings are true or not the same could be said of the Torah or any written documents. However when you place differents documents that relate to a same event written by different authors who have no relation to one another and you end up with the same story from different angles; well you can safely assume that it is true. Historically Jesus is who he is. Please refer to Eusebius and Tertullian(Roman history) and refer to St. Ignatius of Antioch in Syria(early christian letters)
4. Let us presume the body was taken out by His disciples how does this explain his actual resurrection. There were countless witnesses who attested upon seeing the resurrected Jesus. His body couldn’t of been stolen because it was glorified in the resurrection.

Here is a sample of St. Ignatius letters:

Some scholars have argued, for example, that the letters of Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch in Syria, written around A.D. 110, preserve traditions about Jesus that are older than the New Testament gospels themselves. Thus the writings of Ignatius might serve as a witness to early sources of knowledge about Jesus.

What we find in Ignatius, however, confirms what we find in the biblical materials. In one of his letters, for example, Ignatius urges a church: “Be ye deaf therefore, when any man speaketh to you apart from Jesus Christ, who was of the race of David, who was the Son of Mary, who was truly born and ate and drank, was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate, was truly crucified and died in the sight of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the earth; who moreover was truly raised from the dead” (Ignatius to the Trallians 9:1-2). These basic “facts” about Jesus are found throughout the earlier New Testament writings. Notice how Ignatius goes to great pains to point out that these things really happened. They were not just figments of early Christian imagination.

I hope it will shed some light. I will do further research. Right now this is what I can give.

God Bless

 

[PJM]

What are you talking about? The opposite is true. I am the one who claims that Jesus was Jewish and the NT is the one that makes of Jesus a Greek demigod.

"Samuel Ungerleider Professor of Judaic Studies and Professor of Religious Studies Brown University.

First there was “wierd” then “more wierd” is this gonna be thee wierdest:shrug:

Was Jesus Jewish and, if he was, how would that have influenced his experiences as a young man growing up in Galilee?

Was Jesus a Jew? Of course, Jesus was a Jew. He was born of a Jewish mother, in Galilee, a Jewish part of the world. All of his friends, associates, colleagues, disciples, all of them were Jews. He regularly worshipped in Jewish communal worship, what we call synagogues. He preached from Jewish text, from the Bible. He celebrated the Jewish festivals. He went on pilgrimage to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem where he was under the authority of priests… He lived, was born, lived, died, taught as a Jew. This is obvious to any casual reader of the gospel text. What’s striking is not so much that he was a Jew but that the gospels make no pretense that he wasn’t.

From the Clan of King David.

T

he gospels do make the pretense that Jesus was not a Jew when they describe him as a Greek demigod, the son of God with a woman. That’s not Jewish.

My my, such charges I have read the bible in it beautiful entirety, mutiple times. help us out friend, this is located where?

The gospels have no sense yet that Jesus was anything other than a Jew. The gospels don’t even have a sense that he came to found a new religion, an idea completely foreign to all the gospel text, and completely foreign to Paul.

This Professor of Judaisc studies should stick to his Judaic studies and leave the NT in peace because he either has no knowledge of the NT or a very poor knowledge of Judaism. Jesus, indeed, did not come to found a new religion but to confirm the old one down to the letter. (Mat. 5:18,190}

For certain, he’s never read the bible!

 

[FatTire]

The secret of Jesus’ destination, after the 40 days. Don’t forget that the world of then belonged to Rome. If Pilate had ever been breathed that a Jew had escaped the cross and left the Province, he would be found anywhere as was Hannibal when he fled Rome.

We would have to accept your story that the Romans didn’t believe Jesus to be dead because going through torture and crucifixion and being stabbed in the chest is nothing a bandage can fix. And remember Pilate was never hell bent on killing Jesus, the high Jewish priest saw him more of a threat. Now if Jesus was a military leader that presented a real physical armed threat to Rome, of course he would be hunted down. Jesus was more of the threat to the priestly class which were instrumental in having him killed. Here is where we part, as Christians we believe Christ ascended into heaven, you don’t believe that so no matter what there is no point in arguing where Jesus went after the 40 days because you don’t believe in his resurrection.

Your understanding of my thread and posts has completely missed the target. The guy who wrote Matthew is the one who says that the Jews paid the Roman soldiers to spread around that Jesus’ body had been stolen, which I have proved, makes no sense. The tale is full of holes. And the 12 Apostles came out with NO religion to replace Judaism. That was Paul’s role with Christianity. (Gal. 4:21-31) That’s not the hidden secret the Apostles died with. You are not focused. The secret they died with was the destination Jesus took after he left Israel. Therefore, there is no Jewish conspiracy. The conspiracy wa Pauline, which was taken over by the Church.

Yes, but which Jews, the ones who were threatened by Jesus’ ministry. My problem is when you say that Joseph kept Jesus alive using his wealth and influence. Jesus was dead on the cross, the Gospels attest to this. You claim that Joseph knew that Jesus was still faintly alive and money exchanged hands and the rest is your bizarre history. Yes, the apostles did not preach a religion that replaced Judaism, but one can hardly call Jesus teachings about the clean and unclean and the role of the Temple faithful to Judaism, remember the Jew priests felt their financial and religious roles threatened by Jesus on his ministry against the role of the Temple in worship. You even said, the apostles and Jesus got together and created the Nazarene Sect. As for Paul’s role in Christianity, Paul and even the Gospels are instrumental in proclaiming the message of Christ to the Gentile communities. If you’re a Gentile why would you mutilate your penis and avoid certain food to be faithful to God? These Jew laws did not apply to the Gentile who professed faith in the risen Christ. And how can I stay focused with a nut job like you?.

You might have a point here somewhere. My claims are not stupid. If not true to a fault, they are very intelligent speculations based on NT evidences.

Speculations?! Please, hardly, more like wild stories trying to, and failing, to destroy the last chapters (the center of the Christian faith) of the Gospels. You pick and choice certain verses and based on those verses you go on wild tangents that make absolutely no sense at all.

 

[FatTire]

So, up to a point, my arguments were good. Then, when you found out you could not refute them, you decided to make them ugly. I have heard that before. I cannot accept the resurrection because physical resurrection is against the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle. And I am not making bizarre and insulting claims. Bizarre and insulting claims are made by yourselves every time you claim that a Jew was son of God with a woman, as an image distortion of the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism. That’s Greek Mythology and there is no such a thing in Judaism.

Your silly and outrageous claims have already been refuted, what I meant was up to a point you kept the scripture quotes in context and did not go off on wild speculations. But it is YOU who after finding out could not refute the counter arguements, turned ugly. You know what is also a bizarre and insulting claim to non-Jews but no one questions why? The Jews are God’s Chosen People! Here is my argument against that claim using the “BEN MASADA METHOD”, ready? Here it is: in a world in which dominate cultures from the Assyrians, Egyptians, and Babylonians, and on, all who enslaved the Jews and made them build their statues of their chief gods and their temples and had their own gods, and when in battle the gods of one culture battled against the others. The Jews created their own god (who commanded not to have an other god before him), called him Yahweh, supposedly more powerful than all the other gods at that time and since they could not build grand images of him, a law was made up saying you can’t create images of god even though all cultures did at that time. The Jews survived enslavement not because of their made up god Yahweh but because as everyone knows slaves change hands when one invading force takes over the other. Mutilating your penis is a sign of the covenant with god, NO! It’s the sign your a slave and property to Egypt and that sand gets stuck in your foreskin and leads to death and its only wise for the Egyptians to keep their slaves alive! When life gives the Jews a mutilated penis, make it into a sign of God’s covenant to save face! How lovely!

Now as insulting these claims may be to you, I don’t care because these are facts we have to deal with. I can easily argue that that is what happened. After all, EL was the chief Cannanite god and El is also the Jewish god as well, uh oh what a coincidence, time for me to go off on a rant how all of Judaism is a lie made up by a group of enslaved peasants! This of course will make all monotheistic religions a lie and Atheism stands the victor. Or maybe who gives a sh-- about the Messiah and the Jewish prophecies, who needs the Old Testament? Gentiles who professed faith in Christ were never Jewish or cared about his lineage being from the house of David, Jesus Jewish background and prophecies that told his coming didn’t matter to pagan and Gentile groups who became Christian, so who cares about Judaism? Who cares about the Messiah? I don’t need the Jew Messiah, I’m not a Jew, I need a loving God and savior who is not exclusive to one group and that is Jesus Christ.

If Jesus’ virgin birth to Mary is insulting to you, then your Judaism is insulting to me, I like my penis the way it is and I love pork! While we are at it, let’s question another historical event and see if the"numbers" add up. Catch my drift? Quit being an a-hole, you want to debate Scripture do it without creating your own outlandish stories to discredit your hosts’ beliefs.

My point is this, you have crossed a line in which you no longer make any sense and your arguements like your secrets of the Apostles is just plain ugly and if someone was to attack your faith creating outlandish stories to discredit your beliefs you would cry antisemitism so hard it’d make your yarmulke fall off.

 

[FatTire]

Quoting Ben Masada from a previous post of his:

What they suffered and died for do not mean a lot because Muslims throw themselves to their death almost daily somewhere in the name of Islam. Does is mean they have a monopoly on the Truth? I didn’t think so.

End Quote.

Ok, my question is what would compel the Apostles to go out and leave their lives behind as they knew it and proclaim the Gospel of Christ knowing they would die for it?

Consider this, that like most Jews in their time, they feared Rome, and in general it was a very hostile word and attacking other people’s religious beliefs, especially their gods would get you killed. What would make a group of scared Jews, mostly the leader Peter,who denied his master to his face out of cowardice, not have a fear of Rome or the pagan world any longer and take it head on and preach the Gospel throughout the land? Thomas goes to India, Thaddeus to the Middle East, Peter to Rome itself, and so on and so on?

What would compel them beyond a shadow of a doubt that what they are doing is worth dying for and a message that the world must know?

Apparently they did it to your disappointment, because here we are close to 2 billion Christians and counting. You can’t deny that something lead them to become new brave and passionate preachers? What was it?

According to you from your posts, it was a bandaged and beaten up Jesus hiding from Roman authorities who gave them a pep talk and ran away with wife Mary Magdalene.

Knowing that the apostles doubted Jesus and ran and hid during his most trying time, do you honestly think that simple minded coward Jews will be uplifted by a broken down leader to risk their lives and preach his message? If you believe that you’re insulting your own people.

Now as for you claiming that Jesus survived the crucifixion:

“The cruelty of the Romans would have led them to find the palms of the hands as the most painful part,” Reed said. He suggested that the Romans also used wooden washers to make sure the hands and the feet couldn’t be pulled away from the nails.

All that pain and exposure would have led to a condition called hypovolemic shock, based on tests that pathologist Frederick Zugibe conducted on student volunteers under closely monitored lab conditions. Blood pressure would drop, leading to irreversible organ damage, heart stoppage and death. Piercing Jesus’ side would release the pooled blood and fluid, just as described in the Gospels.

The University of Texas’ White said he considered the nailing of the feet to be the “crucial issue” for victims of the cross.

“That’s the point of no return,” he said. “It’s not what kills him, but that’s the death blow. … Even assuming the person could have lived when you took him down from the cross, he never would have walked again.”

End Quote

That’s from National Geographic’s Quest for Truth: The Crucifixion. Please address your counter conspiracy theory arguments to the the scientists and Biblical archaeologists who ran the investigation.

Note: This is from just one scientific source among many which clearly state the deadly result of crucifixion, of course none of them consulted our resident conspiracy theory nut job Ben Masada, he can take any results and refute them using his imagination and fantasy.

So if they did survive, they couldn’t walk. So Jesus would have to either crawled everywhere or been carried. So far, that wouldn’t convince me that He is who he said he was and I wouldn’t risk my neck for him.

Secondly you claim that he would have been healed in 40 days:

Blood pressure would drop, leading to irreversible organ damage, heart stoppage and death. Piercing Jesus’ side would release the pooled blood and fluid, just as described in the Gospels.

Next thing you’re going to tell me you can beat heart disease and cancer in 60 days, if Jesus can beat irreversible organ damage in 40 days using herbs and spices, modern medicine can solve anything in 40 days or less.

So here is Ben Masada’s retelling of what happened after Jesus’ body was taken away by Joseph. He gets patched up and then a half dead organ damaged handicapped Jesus crawls to His apostles in hiding and convinces them that he is worth preaching his message for and risking your life for.

Very convincing story Ben!

Or just maybe, consider this Jew: Jesus was crucified, died, was buried, and rose on the third day. Now if I was a coward Jew who just saw his master tortured, mocked, and executed and he came back to life with only the markings left from the crucifixion, guess what I’d grow balls, big ones and I’d go to every land and proclaim his Truth.

You are a moronic idiot, Ben Masada. I don’t care anymore, I’m telling you how it is. Enough with you cherry picking scripture and trying to disprove the central belief of Christianity. Why are you so threatened by Jesus’ resurrection? You go on being a Jew, live your life according to your beliefs, you don’t want to believe, fine don’t believe, your loss.

We would have to discredit the laws of science and medicine to believe your version of events. Let’s crucify you and see if you survive it or not, don’t worry it’s not that bad once you get past the torture and carrying of the cross, after all according to you all you need is herbs and spices and bandages and 40 days of rest, you’ll be back in no time! What an idiot you are!

You have made the most craziest outlandish claims I have ever heard. You are an insult to Judaism, Jews like you who continually harass others and insult their beliefs is the reason antisemitism exists. You make me want to support Palestine and Muslim causes and I’m appalled by Islam, so you can guess how bad you must be if your making me support them. You say the stupidest things ever, and not about light topics but about the most important event in history to some 2 billion people. Shame on you, I feel bad for Jews, you give them a bad name. Thank God, I have normal Jewish friends, they aren’t nut jobs like you.

Go away, go slam your head against the Wailing Wall, leave a prayer note inside for God to give you some common sense.

 

[PJM]

=humble maid-Hello Ben,

I would think that you would be proud of Jesus. Afterall he was Jewish. His ascendency is recorded right down to Abraham. He is one of you and one of the most beloved men in history. How is that something to feel threatened by? Alas I will try to explain the situation here;

1. Jesus was killed on Good Friday 15th of nisan. He instituted the last supper on the 14 nisan or Passover.
2. His body disappeared in the early morning of the following sunday which I presume the Shabbaton or Sabbath had already ended.
3. Furthermore regardless whether you think the writings are true or not the same could be said of the Torah or any written documents. However when you place differents documents that relate to a same event written by different authors who have no relation to one another and you end up with the same story from different angles; well you can safely assume that it is true. Historically Jesus is who he is. Please refer to Eusebius and Tertullian(Roman history) and refer to St. Ignatius of Antioch in Syria(early christian letters)
4. Let us presume the body was taken out by His disciples how does this explain his actual resurrection. There were countless witnesses who attested upon seeing the resurrected Jesus. His body couldn’t of been stolen because it was glorified in the resurrection.

Here is a sample of St. Ignatius letters:

Some scholars have argued, for example, that the letters of Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch in Syria, written around A.D. 110, preserve traditions about Jesus that are older than the New Testament gospels themselves. Thus the writings of Ignatius might serve as a witness to early sources of knowledge about Jesus.

What we find in Ignatius, however, confirms what we find in the biblical materials. In one of his letters, for example, Ignatius urges a church: “Be ye deaf therefore, when any man speaketh to you apart from Jesus Christ, who was of the race of David, who was the Son of Mary, who was truly born and ate and drank, was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate, was truly crucified and died in the sight of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the earth; who moreover was truly raised from the dead” (Ignatius to the Trallians 9:1-2). These basic “facts” about Jesus are found throughout the earlier New Testament writings. Notice how Ignatius goes to great pains to point out that these things really happened. They were not just figments of early Christian imagination.

I hope it will shed some light. I will do further research. Right now this is what I can give.

God Bless

***Very well done! Thank you

But Ben is not seeking truth, does not he seem susceptible to logic, and or common sense. Nor does he view History as having any validity in topical discussion.

I mention these things neither for you or our friend Ben, but for those who may not be filmiliar with his post and very radical positions.

Love and prayers,***

 

[Lapell]

Newbie2;5668017:

**Newbie, you are not using Logic. After a few hours that Jesus had been crucified, Joseph when to Pilate for permission to take Jesus off for burial. Pilate was surprised that Jesus had died so soon, and didn’t believe he was dead. So, he commands the Centurion to go with Joseph and check it out. (Mark 15:44,45)

On the way to the Calvary Joseph and the Centurion had some time to talk. Since money speaks volumes, and Joseph had a lot of it, the Centurion got more than enough and Joseph got to take Jesus off without any more ado. As Joseph was taking Jesus off the cross, he might have realized that Jesus was still alive. Since there were still people at the Calvary, Joseph laid Jesus for an hour or two in the tomb and returned later with his men to take Jesus from that tomb to another place to treat his wounds. (John 19:39)

When Jesus could start visiting his disciples, he must indeed have spent 40 days with them, trying to organize the Sect of the Nazarenes until he could leave Israel with his wife Mary and Joseph of Arimathea. They could not stay because they could compromise not only their lives but also the life of the Centurion. Then, they left, and I am sure his Apostles
knew where to but they kept the secret very tight. That’s why they could never believe Paul’s story that he had met Jesus on the Road to Damascus. The Apostles knew that Jesus had not gone that way. There are several speculations where Jesus might have headed to, but I do not endorse any. The Apostles died with the secret.**

So, Jesus would have survived the spearing to his heart? Sure, John is the only one to tell about it, but he also was the only Apostle at the foot of the cross where Jesus was nailed. It says Jesus was already dead then. The other crucified people had their legs broken… You would be able to remain alive, then, had you been speared right in the heart?

 

[Lapell]

Ben Masada;5673465:

So, Jesus would have survived the spearing to his heart? Sure, John is the only one to tell about it, but he also was the only Apostle at the foot of the cross where Jesus was nailed. It says Jesus was already dead then. The other crucified people had their legs broken… You would be able to remain alive, then, had you been speared right in the heart?

Yeah, tell me about Logic!!!

 

[Lapell]

** It’s very easy to think of more than one reason why the Jews have had such a difficult time for the last 2000 years. The main one is jealousy. The non-Jewish world can’t conceive the idea that Christianity has been powerless to break the Jew after 2000 years, whose Faith is still alive and kicking, in spite of all attempts at Replacement Theology, a policy that started with Paul. (Gal. 4:21-31)**

Not Christianity, senhor! Other nations. You guys were persecuted by the people way before Jesus entered the scene!
Also, the Jews have been not so powerful as to break Christianity after not quite 2,000 years! (If the Church’s birth was at Pentecost 30 AD, then it’s only been 1,979 years and a few months ago! if it was at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, then it would be 1,982 years ago!)

 

[Lapell]

***Very well done! Thank you

But Ben is not seeking truth, does not he seem susceptible to logic, and or common sense. Nor does he view History as having any validity in topical discussion.

I mention these things neither for you or our friend Ben, but for those who may not be filmiliar with his post and very radical positions.

Love and prayers,***

Thank you! And it’s true his logic left out a number of things…

 

[humblelurker]

Ben Masada

Keep in mind something I learned in my life:

*The true descendants of bigotry and hate are those who embody bigotry and hate in words or actions. You don’t inherit it by blood but in words and actions. The same is true with being a victim. *

I grew up like a second class citizen with no future, and in my life I have seen bigotry against me and my family in the name of faith. I have heard the condescending self righteous arguments and questions asked in order to convert people or to bash their faith. In the gospels this is seen when some official poses a question to Jesus in order to trap him. There is no compassion or understanding only the hard hearted win or lose in a legalistic debate. Sorry but you can’t convince me of anything because I believe your true intentions are out of malice. Nobody is perfect, not even “Religious Jews.” And we all need more compassion and understanding. I don’t believe your questions serve either, and I don’t believe you truly want answers.

I will pray for you.

 

[Wildkit]

Quoting Ben Masada from a previous post of his:

What they suffered and died for do not mean a lot because Muslims throw themselves to their death almost daily somewhere in the name of Islam. Does is mean they have a monopoly on the Truth? I didn’t think so.

End Quote.

Ok, my question is what would compel the Apostles to go out and leave their lives behind as they knew it and proclaim the Gospel of Christ knowing they would die for it?

Consider this, that like most Jews in their time, they feared Rome, and in general it was a very hostile word and attacking other people’s religious beliefs, especially their gods would get you killed. What would make a group of scared Jews, mostly the leader Peter,who denied his master to his face out of cowardice, not have a fear of Rome or the pagan world any longer and take it head on and preach the Gospel throughout the land? Thomas goes to India, Thaddeus to the Middle East, Peter to Rome itself, and so on and so on?

What would compel them beyond a shadow of a doubt that what they are doing is worth dying for and a message that the world must know?

Apparently they did it to your disappointment, because here we are close to 2 billion Christians and counting. You can’t deny that something lead them to become new brave and passionate preachers? What was it?

According to you from your posts, it was a bandaged and beaten up Jesus hiding from Roman authorities who gave them a pep talk and ran away with wife Mary Magdalene.

Knowing that the apostles doubted Jesus and ran and hid during his most trying time, do you honestly think that simple minded coward Jews will be uplifted by a broken down leader to risk their lives and preach his message? If you believe that you’re insulting your own people.

Now as for you claiming that Jesus survived the crucifixion:

“The cruelty of the Romans would have led them to find the palms of the hands as the most painful part,” Reed said. He suggested that the Romans also used wooden washers to make sure the hands and the feet couldn’t be pulled away from the nails.

All that pain and exposure would have led to a condition called hypovolemic shock, based on tests that pathologist Frederick Zugibe conducted on student volunteers under closely monitored lab conditions. Blood pressure would drop, leading to irreversible organ damage, heart stoppage and death. Piercing Jesus’ side would release the pooled blood and fluid, just as described in the Gospels.

The University of Texas’ White said he considered the nailing of the feet to be the “crucial issue” for victims of the cross.

“That’s the point of no return,” he said. “It’s not what kills him, but that’s the death blow. … Even assuming the person could have lived when you took him down from the cross, he never would have walked again.”

End Quote

That’s from National Geographic’s Quest for Truth: The Crucifixion. Please address your counter conspiracy theory arguments to the the scientists and Biblical archaeologists who ran the investigation.

Note: This is from just one scientific source among many which clearly state the deadly result of crucifixion, of course none of them consulted our resident conspiracy theory nut job Ben Masada, he can take any results and refute them using his imagination and fantasy.

So if they did survive, they couldn’t walk. So Jesus would have to either crawled everywhere or been carried. So far, that wouldn’t convince me that He is who he said he was and I wouldn’t risk my neck for him.

Secondly you claim that he would have been healed in 40 days:

Blood pressure would drop, leading to irreversible organ damage, heart stoppage and death. Piercing Jesus’ side would release the pooled blood and fluid, just as described in the Gospels.

Next thing you’re going to tell me you can beat heart disease and cancer in 60 days, if Jesus can beat irreversible organ damage in 40 days using herbs and spices, modern medicine can solve anything in 40 days or less.

So here is Ben Masada’s retelling of what happened after Jesus’ body was taken away by Joseph. He gets patched up and then a half dead organ damaged handicapped Jesus crawls to His apostles in hiding and convinces them that he is worth preaching his message for and risking your life for.

Very convincing story Ben!

Or just maybe, consider this Jew: Jesus was crucified, died, was buried, and rose on the third day. Now if I was a coward Jew who just saw his master tortured, mocked, and executed and he came back to life with only the markings left from the crucifixion, guess what I’d grow balls, big ones and I’d go to every land and proclaim his Truth.

You are a moronic idiot, Ben Masada. I don’t care anymore, I’m telling you how it is. Enough with you cherry picking scripture and trying to disprove the central belief of Christianity. Why are you so threatened by Jesus’ resurrection? You go on being a Jew, live your life according to your beliefs, you don’t want to believe, fine don’t believe, your loss.

We would have to discredit the laws of science and medicine to believe your version of events. Let’s crucify you and see if you survive it or not, don’t worry it’s not that bad once you get past the torture and carrying of the cross, after all according to you all you need is herbs and spices and bandages and 40 days of rest, you’ll be back in no time! What an idiot you are!

You have made the most craziest outlandish claims I have ever heard. You are an insult to Judaism, Jews like you who continually harass others and insult their beliefs is the reason antisemitism exists. You make me want to support Palestine and Muslim causes and I’m appalled by Islam, so you can guess how bad you must be if your making me support them. You say the stupidest things ever, and not about light topics but about the most important event in history to some 2 billion people. Shame on you, I feel bad for Jews, you give them a bad name. Thank God, I have normal Jewish friends, they aren’t nut jobs like you.

Go away, go slam your head against the Wailing Wall, leave a prayer note inside for God to give you some common sense.

Your logic is such that as Ben desires debates,…I can see why he hasn’t posted anything to refute your excellent synopsis yet! He is too busy with his other debating.forums with his prostylizing rhetoric. Nevertheless, there is a degree of logic that one can not refute. Faith!

God Bless!

 

[Lapell]

Ben Masada

Keep in mind something I learned in my life:

*The true descendants of bigotry and hate are those who embody bigotry and hate in words or actions. You don’t inherit it by blood but in words and actions. The same is true with being a victim. *

I grew up like a second class citizen with no future, and in my life I have seen bigotry against me and my family in the name of faith. I have heard the condescending self righteous arguments and questions asked in order to convert people or to bash their faith. In the gospels this is seen when some official poses a question to Jesus in order to trap him. There is no compassion or understanding only the hard hearted win or lose in a legalistic debate. Sorry but you can’t convince me of anything because I believe your true intentions are out of malice. Nobody is perfect, not even “Religious Jews.” And we all need more compassion and understanding. I don’t believe your questions serve either, and I don’t believe you truly want answers.

I will pray for you.

 

[PJM]

=humblelurker-Ben Masada

Keep in mind something I learned in my life:

*The true descendants of bigotry and hate are those who embody bigotry and hate in words or actions. You don’t inherit it by blood but in words and actions. The same is true with being a victim. *

I grew up like a second class citizen with no future, and in my life I have seen bigotry against me and my family in the name of faith. I have heard the condescending self righteous arguments and questions asked in order to convert people or to bash their faith. In the gospels this is seen when some official poses a question to Jesus in order to trap him. There is no compassion or understanding only the hard hearted win or lose in a legalistic debate. Sorry but you can’t convince me of anything because I believe your true intentions are out of malice. Nobody is perfect, not even “Religious Jews.” And we all need more compassion and understanding. I don’t believe your questions serve either, and I don’t believe you truly want answers.

I will pray for you.

***Ben dear friend we love ya! But that does not mean that we will or can allow your bizzare theories to go unchalanged. Love is a conscious decission, and you Ben, are a Brother in Faith. So lets try to maintain perspective.

I’m praying for you too***

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;5676457:

To be quite honest Ben, just about every Christian I know doesn’t even think about the Jews or the Jewish religion. It’s not even an issue. As far as I can see, with Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem becoming a media and tourist circus due to their aggressive insularity from other Jews, it seems to me that Judaism is as divided as Protestantism in Christianity.

You can go on believing in Judaism till the cows come home for all I care. As for being jealous? Of what? Purely in your imagination, I assure you. My argument with you personally is your complete lack of historical credence in the assertions you drum up with the greatest of delusional ease.

**The problem with the Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem means no division in Judaism, as you wish it did. The whole problem is because of the Sabbath, which they consider a Law breaking act to open business or for cars to run on the Shabbat.

Regarding my assertions, which you consider delusional, you are simply frustrated for not being able to refute them within the Scriptures. That’s all.**

 

[Ben_Masada]

The demand to be married was a cultural norm for religious Jews, so you assert, so confidently, that Jesus must have observed that norm. However, most people–even non-Christian historians–realize that Jesus broke several

 

[humble_maid]

They tried, but Paul never wanted to listen. He rather would pride on the fact that his gospel, he didn’t even went up to Jerusalem to learn it from throse who were apostles before him. Who could talk to Paul, who would curse even an angel who came down from heaven with a gospel different from his? (Gal. 1:6-10)

Ben, what was meant in your scripture quote is explained in this scripture quote:

13 For such false apostles are deceitful workmen, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed as the ministers of justice, whose end shall be according to their works 2 Cor 11:13-15

Paul knew that the believers would be deceived therefore he gave that example in Galatians to exemplify that he was bearing the truth and anyone trying to change it was deceitful even if it was an angel of light.

Please Ben, I pray for us. Many of my brothers and sisters gave exemplary posts and you did not carefully heed to them. Where did you study the bible?