Because of two lengthy threads entitled : Do we exist in the Mind of God? and How does God create the " act of existence " out of nothing?
Yes, but that is not very clear. In this context I think Paul is talking about the presence of the Trinity in us by grace. I am looking for something that would indicate that would show that creatures exist in the Mind of God as they exist in their ontological structure as opposed to merely the Idea or Knowledge God has of them.
In that case, I really don’t understand why yet another thread is even necessary. Are they over the post limit or stale?
No. There were some there, including several Catholics, who felt that indeed we exist in the Mind of God and/or that the esse of God is the esse of creatures. And it is my view that such ideas are contrary to Catholic teaching. So I guess you could say that this thread is an attempt to demonstrate to them that their position is one that cannot be held by Catholics, if they truely understand the issues. For, if no one can provide good examples demonstrating the " truth " of their position, then perhaps they will see that their position is not valid and should not be held.
An absence of such information is not a proof of the opposite. To prove your point, you would be further required to provide evidence that the Church actually teaches your view. Are you prepared to offer such information?
Of course I can be in error like anyone. However I have read and meditated on the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas for nearly 50 years now - not that I have any claim to know Thomas any better than any other layperson - but I think I understand him well enough. Also I am well acquainted with the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Dogmatic Teachings of the Church as well. If you go over and review the sites I mentioned above, you will get the picture a little better.
You beat me by a few years.
Here, Aquinas points out that the human intellect cannot be material or it could not know everything humans know, virtually any idea that is presented to it.
) of God.Good points. Why not think of a way to put these ideas on one of the other sites I mentioned above?You beat me by a few years.
As I understand Aquinas, the human soul is subsistent. That is, it operates on its own. Its will and intellect operate according to its own will,
or something like that. I haven’t looked up what Tom said.
Now, if any of the above is true, the soul cannot simply exist in the mind of God, or be God’s esse, or any nonsense like that being promoted by a few.
The human soul can and does do evil. This cannot be God. So the soul is an operating agent other than God.
Yes, why not put this on one of the sites I mentioned above and see what happens.All right. I did look up Aquinas on the subsistence of the soul.
newadvent.org/summa/1075.htm#article2
Here, Aquinas points out that the human intellect cannot be material or it could not know everything humans know, virtually any idea that is presented to it.
Since the intellect is incorporial, so is the will which of course operates on this universal knowledge.
From this follows that the soul is an operating agent other than God. Hitler and the Jews were not both “esse’s” ( whatever the heck that is
What other websites?
I know but some people, even some Catholics (How could we exist *physically *in the mind of God? A mind contains ideas, not physical objects? Do you reckon that God’s mind is extended?
) seem to accept that. Your comment really belongs on one of the threads I mentioned above. What I’m trying to do here is to show that there is no support for this idea in Church teaching or in Scriptures. Then perhaps they will change their thinking.Is that what I said (
), I meant : " Because of two lengthy threads entitled : Do we exist in the Mind of God? and How does God create the " act of existence " out of nothing? "The physical world is governed by the laws of physics and the laws of physics are “ideas”. I suppose it is possible that the physical world is a “physical” manifestation of those ideas…How could we exist *physically *in the mind of God? A mind contains ideas, not physical objects? Do you reckon that God’s mind is extended?
But if no sources can be found, it should suggest that people should perhaps not discuss the " possibility " in public, especially on a Catholic forum. Theologians discuss many things but they do it with discression ( if they are loyal men and women of the Church). They don’t usually discuss things in public which may cause confusion among the layity.