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valentino
Guest
A child does what his parent(parents)tell him to do.He has no choice in the matter.He relies on his parents for food and clothing and shelter therefore he has to do what they tell him.Can anybody deny this?
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JoArtist
Guest
It is called rebelling. Most kids do it. I know that I did things my parents told me not to do and sometimes I never got caught.
We all have limited free will. Our will is affected by our circumstances, culture, church, people, ect.
We all have limited free will. Our will is affected by our circumstances, culture, church, people, ect.
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valentino
Guest
I don’t see where a child has any free will.If a parent tells a child he can’t study but has to cut the grass,where is his free will?Lets say the child needs that time to pass the test.So he fails the test because he had to cut the grass.He can’t say no to his parents.
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Muze
Guest
Yeah… My kids disobey me all the time. Well, not ALL the time, but they explicitly do things that I’ve told them not to do.
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Ter1
Guest
When I was in 2nd Class (Ireland = I was 8/9) my teacher told my Mam at a Parent/Teacher meeting, “It’s a good thing she choses to be good”. I chose to do what my parents asked; but I chose, they couldn’t force me. They could punish me when I refused to do what I was told but they couldn’t make me do it e.g. I remember sitting for an hour in front of my dinner, I wouldn’t eat it; eventually Mam sent me to bed. She didn’t manage to get me to eat it. Children have free will.
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Catholic90
Guest
You do not have kids, do you?
A child has free will. Some are more compliant, some are more rebellious, some are more spirited. All have free will.
Just like adults! We can choose to do something, or not. That is free will.
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valentino
Guest
So you went to bed hungry.And when you finally did want to eat your mam could have so no.she could have said "you won’t eat until we sit down to eat"So 5 hrs.later your really starving and then you eat.Then the next time you won’t say no.So where is your free will?
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maryjk
Guest
Or the next time they say no and the parent goes through it again.
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Catholic90
Guest
Or the child sneaks into the cupboard or to a friend’s house or has stashed food in her room. Lots of options.
You cannot force a child to eat something they do not like (nor should you).
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JoArtist
Guest
There are plenty of times my parents told me to do something and I did not do it. They can punish you, but they can’t force you to do anything. If they had no free will you wouldn’t young kids doing drugs and having sex. I had a friend in High School who lost his virginity at 11 to another little boy and started doing drugs at 12. His parents told him not to do those things, but look he still did them. I have had friends too that would change in the bathroom at school to wear clothes their parents wouldn’t let them wear.
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Catholic90
Guest
A child can say no to his parents. If I asked my son to cut the grass, and he explained he had a test to study for instead, I am a reasonable person and would allow him to study. Now if he did not study and instead started playing video games, I would bring up the grass, but if he was indeed studying, that would take priority over my lawn.
A child can say no to his parents on other matters as well.
My children have a say in what styles and color of clothing they wore. Free will.
My children have a say in what food is purchased and prepared for them. If they do not like it, why would I buy it? Free will.
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valentino
Guest
The reason I bring this up is recently I read where this mother had her daughter steal some clothes from a store.She was caught.What choice did the daughter have?She had nno free will to say no because she was dependent on her mother.Or what about a child who has to help support the family and can’t get a good education?The child has no choice in the matter.He really doesn’t have the free will to refuse.You do not have kids, do you?
A child has free will. Some are more compliant, some are more rebellious, some are more spirited. All have free will.
Just like adults! We can choose to do something, or not. That is free will.
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nodito
Guest
The child still has free will. The child can decide she doesn’t like the consequences of her earlier decision not to eat (i.e., being hungry, not getting dessert, whatever) and therefore chose to eat dinner next time, but it’s still a choice.
Having free will doesn’t mean there are no outside pressures or external circumstances or consequences that affect our decisions. It means that human choices are not predetermined by God.
I can’t help wondering if there isn’t some other point that you’re trying to argue indirectly.
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Catholic90
Guest
Sure, she does. The child could have said no to stealing. For supporting the family, if a student must drop out, there is always the GED and then night classes or online classes.
No is one of the first words a child learns! They use it often! “Put on your shoes.” NO! “Pick up your toys.” NO! “Kiss your aunt.” NO! “Eat your cold, gross, tasteless brussell sprouts.” NO!
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Ter1
Guest
I think you might be confusing “free will” with “full knowledge” here. The daughter could still have said “No” BUT when a child is told to do something by a parent they are not likely to think it is wrong and so do it. Therefore the child isn’t guilty of a sin in such a case but still has free will.
As a child I had free will. I could choose to do something or not do it. In fact, I frequently chose to do things that I knew were totally forbidden. Also, as a young teenager, I could never understand friends who would say their parents made them spend x hours in study - *they can’t *- the most they can do is lock you in your room, they can’t make you study.
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Lucky10279
Guest
There is a difference between “can’t” and “shouldn’t”.
Most of the time a child shouldn’t (is not allowed to) disobey his/her parents, but that does not mean that he/she can’t (is unable to) disobey his/her parents…
So, children have free will.
Are you gonna tell me that your child(ren) have NEVER disobeyed you? Are gonna tell me that you NEVER disobeyed your parents when you were a kid?
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Usagi
Guest
Right. The existence of pressure or consequences that influence our choices does not take away free will in the philosophical sense.
What you may be talking about is that outside coercion can reduce culpability, both moral and legal, for bad acts like that of the shoplifting daughter.
On a human level, people will generally understand when someone “didn’t have a choice” because of severe pressure, but that’s not the same thing as literally, philosophically not being able to exercise free well. Even the person being held at gunpoint could refuse or try to rush the gunman. He probably won’t because death is a likely result, and most people understand that, but he does still possess the ability.
In specifically Christian/Catholic terms, the earliest saints to be honored were of course the martyrs, who continued to confess Christ even when changing their behavior might have spared them suffering and death. That includes at least one famous virgin martyr who stood up to her own parents’ lethal pressure.
Usagi
Usagi
What you may be talking about is that outside coercion can reduce culpability, both moral and legal, for bad acts like that of the shoplifting daughter.
On a human level, people will generally understand when someone “didn’t have a choice” because of severe pressure, but that’s not the same thing as literally, philosophically not being able to exercise free well. Even the person being held at gunpoint could refuse or try to rush the gunman. He probably won’t because death is a likely result, and most people understand that, but he does still possess the ability.
In specifically Christian/Catholic terms, the earliest saints to be honored were of course the martyrs, who continued to confess Christ even when changing their behavior might have spared them suffering and death. That includes at least one famous virgin martyr who stood up to her own parents’ lethal pressure.
Usagi
Usagi
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Lucky10279
Guest
Does doing the right thing then stop the person from having sinned in the first place? NO it doesn’t.
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