A choice at time of death?

[Layp3rs0n]

I was reading another thread on Purgatory. It got me thinking: Does God make one last appeal to the soul as it passes from life to death? St. Faustina says He does, but at what point? Does He ask the soul, as it leaves the body, yes or no? We can’t know for certain, but there is the hearsay example of Joseph Stalin, who at the moment of death shook his fist at the ceiling immediately before passing away. Does the soul, sick with sin, and deprived of the Sacraments given one last, final hope to accept or reject God’s Salvation? Does He appear to the person as they pass way and and say, “My child, I am He. Come to Me.”, and give one last breath of hope? Please discuss your thoughts.

 

[truetofaith]

I was reading another thread on Purgatory. It got me thinking: Does God make one last appeal to the soul as it passes from life to death? St. Faustina says He does, but at what point? Does He ask the soul, as it leaves the body, yes or no? We can’t know for certain, but there is the hearsay example of Joseph Stalin, who at the moment of death shook his fist at the ceiling immediately before passing away. Does the soul, sick with sin, and deprived of the Sacraments given one last, final hope to accept or reject God’s Salvation? Does He appear to the person as they pass way and and say, “My child, I am He. Come to Me.”, and give one last breath of hope? Please discuss your thoughts.

Don’t think so! :dts: :nope: If that’s the case everyone would commit every sin they want and just be forgiven when they pass over.

Sounds like trying to scam Jesus. Not too cool.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Don’t think so! :dts: :nope: If that’s the case everyone would commit every sin they want and just be forgiven when they pass over.

Sounds like trying to scam Jesus. Not too cool.

Not necessarily. A person’s actions shape their outlook. If a person spends their life actively rejecting God it is unlikely that they would, at the last second of their life, suddenly have a major change of heart and accept Him.

If, on the other hand, they were someone who had struggled with belief, or never really been able to accept God’s existence, not out of malice or out of personal interest, but simply because they’ve never been convinced; I could see it being possible that they would change if presented with the reality of God’s existence. If that were the case, it wouldn’t be so much as a get out of jail free thing, but more of an “eyes are finally opened” thing.

Personally, I hope it’s true, but I don’t rely on it being true.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Don’t think so! :dts: :nope: If that’s the case everyone would commit every sin they want and just be forgiven when they pass over.

But would they? Might some, in their pride, and in their sense of offense at seeing the truth of their sins, spit in God’s eye, so to speak, when offered reconciliation and choose to spend all eternity worshipping themselves? After all, Lucifer knew exactly what he was doing in rejecting God and choosing himself. And yet, in his pride, that’s what he did.

And might we form ways of thinking during our lives that bolster such an attitude or, alternatively, one of repentence and acceptance of God’s loving forgiveness?

I have not read Sr. Faustina, but Ste Therese of Lisieux said similar things.

 

[truetofaith]

But would they? Might some, in their pride, and in their sense of offense at seeing the truth of their sins, spit in God’s eye, so to speak, when offered reconciliation and choose to spend all eternity worshipping themselves? After all, Lucifer knew exactly what he was doing in rejecting God and choosing himself. And yet, in his pride, that’s what he did.

And might we form ways of thinking during our lives that bolster such an attitude or, alternatively, one of repentence and acceptance of God’s loving forgiveness?

I have not read Sr. Faustina, but Ste Therese of Lisieux said similar things.

As far as I know the Catholic Church teaches a person has up until their dying breath to repent…not in the next life.

 

[christofirst]

I was reading another thread on Purgatory. It got me thinking: Does God make one last appeal to the soul as it passes from life to death? St. Faustina says He does, but at what point? Does He ask the soul, as it leaves the body, yes or no? We can’t know for certain, but there is the hearsay example of Joseph Stalin, who at the moment of death shook his fist at the ceiling immediately before passing away. Does the soul, sick with sin, and deprived of the Sacraments given one last, final hope to accept or reject God’s Salvation? Does He appear to the person as they pass way and and say, “My child, I am He. Come to Me.”, and give one last breath of hope? Please discuss your thoughts.

I hope so!

You are certainly not the first to wonder if this might be so. Mercy and justice, does one trump the other? Can the demands of justice be satisfied in light of God’s infinite love and mercy? I think so, at least I hope so. This is probably why I take comfort in the Showings of Julian of Norwich, which do not reveal exactly how it will be, but still assure us that “All shall be well.”

 

[Scottgun]

I think it is acceptable to hope so, but it would be wildly foolish to hold off repentance banking on it. Isn’t that the sin of presumption?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

As far as I know the Catholic Church teaches a person has up until their dying breath to repent…not in the next life.

I believe the Church teaches that we know a person has until their last breath to repent, but that God, in His mercy and justice, would be fully capable of providing one last opportunity before their judgment. I’m not positive though.

…Actually, thinking on this, I think I’m wrong, and that Ridgerunner is correct (next post )

 

[Ridgerunner]

As far as I know the Catholic Church teaches a person has up until their dying breath to repent…not in the next life.

I did not understand the initial post as saying one could repent after death, but that one might be enabled to do so at the moment of death. Possibly I misunderstood, but I don’t think I did.

 

[christofirst]

Don’t think so! :dts: :nope: If that’s the case everyone would commit every sin they want and just be forgiven when they pass over.

Sounds like trying to scam Jesus. Not too cool.

When I consider this, I am reminded of the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The one who came last got the same reward as those who labored all day. I am also reminded of the brother of the prodigal son, how bitter he was over the Father’s forgiveness, in light of his own steadfastness. What is the message here? Did the Prodigal son and the late worker scam the Father and Master of the vineyard?

 

[truetofaith]

I believe the Church teaches that we know a person has until their last breath to repent, but that God, in His mercy and justice, would be fully capable of providing one last opportunity before their judgment. I’m not positive though.

I didn’t say God wasn’t merciful enough to grant that opportunity …but I don’t know where to find it in the Bible.

 

[truetofaith]

When I consider this, I am reminded of the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The one who came last got the same reward as those who labored all day. I am also reminded of the brother of the prodigal son, how bitter he was over the Father’s forgiveness, in light of his own steadfastness. What is the message here? Did the Prodigal son and the late worker scam the Father and Master of the vineyard?

No, they were still alive to change their hearts.

 

[christofirst]

No, they were still alive to change their hearts.

The OP said “as it passes from life to death.” Enough wiggle room, I suppose, to satisfy both of us.

 

[truetofaith]

I did not understand the initial post as saying one could repent after death, but that one might be enabled to do so at the moment of death. Possibly I misunderstood, but I don’t think I did.

In the initial post he says " as the soul leaves the body," & “as they pass away”. While still alive we have Last Rights or just a few moments to repent in our mind & heart. The poster was extending that to after death. Otherwise no need for the question!

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I didn’t say God wasn’t merciful enough to grant that opportunity …but I don’t know where to find it in the Bible.

Fortunately for you, as a Catholic, you’re not limited to just what’s in the Bible, and have access to the full history of Apostolic Tradition, just as Christ intended!

 

[truetofaith]

Fortunately for you, as a Catholic, you’re not limited to just what’s in the Bible, and have access to the full history of Apostolic Tradition, just as Christ intended!

Then where in Apostolic Tradition can I find this ?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Then where in Apostolic Tradition can I find this ?

Not sure if you can. It hasn’t necessarily been discussed. It is something that, so far as I’m aware, is up to prudential judgment, which means that we’re able to debate and discuss it freely.

 

[Ed_Silvia]

In St. Faustina’s diary she explains how many times Our Lord would awaken and alert her that a soul in need of grace was approaching their last hours on this earth and she was asked to pray and make sacrifices for the salvation of that soul. The Chaplet of Divine Mercy Prayer was most powerful in this regard.

Anyone who has made the 9 frist fridays should know the 12th promise by Our Lord to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque “I promise thee in the excessive mercy of My Heart that My all-powerful love will grant to all those who communicate on the First Friday in nine consecutive months, the grace of final penitence; they shall not die in My disgrace nor without receiving the Sacraments; My Divine heart shall be their safe refuge in this last moment.”

To those who practice the devotion of the First Saturdays in reparation to the sins and offence to Our Lady, She promises her assistance at the hour of death “with the graces necessary for salvation” – she does not promise them eternal salvation itself, but the heavenly graces necessary for salvation.

Certainly all Catholics pray to Our Lady at least one Hail Mary a day… pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

Second only to the hour of our birth is the hour of our death.

 

[Ridgerunner]

In the initial post he says " as the soul leaves the body," & “as they pass away”. While still alive we have Last Rights or just a few moments to repent in our mind & heart. The poster was extending that to after death. Otherwise no need for the question!

When are we truly dead from the standpoint of the afterlife? When our heart stops? When our brain waves are not detectable? When?

 

[styrgwillidar]

I didn’t say God wasn’t merciful enough to grant that opportunity …but I don’t know where to find it in the Bible.

As someone else pointed out, the parable of the workers in the vineyard. Also, the forgiveness of the criminal executed alongside Jesus. A reaching out in the last moments of life. And that criminal is assured He would be with Jesus that day in paradise.

Although because someone would be given the opportunity to accept Jesus and be forgiven in their last moment of life wouldn’t negate them perhaps needing to endure purgatory, perhaps to a greater extent than others in order to enter into heaven. I can see a loving and just God providing clarification to someone at the moment of death of who He truly is vice who they conceived Him to be.

Don’t know if you’ve read much about Near Death Experience’s. I’ve always wondered about the folks who’ve experienced the terrifying sensation of plummeting into darkness and intense heat. If they’ve truly been given a glimpse of hell as their choice through their actions, why? Why are they allowed to return to this life? Also interesting to me is the ‘life review’ which is said to occur, the awareness of one’s whole life not just from their perspective but also from that of those they’ve hurt. Why? In this context- a last chance to show your disposition via an opportunity to experience true regret and remorse?