A Clear Contradiction in Holy Scripture? Jeremiah 3:16 vs. 2 Maccabees 2:4-8

[Antonius_Lupus]

Dear brethren,

With the unwitting “help” of a separated brother, I feel I may have stumbled upon a glaring contradiction in the Holy Writ. I dare not of course presume that it IS a contradiction, merely that it appears so. I humbly ask for assistance from my Catholic family members here in better understanding how to harmonize these two texts. First Jeremiah 3:16 –

When you increase in number and are fruitful in the land—oracle of the LORD—They will in those days no longer say, “The ark of the covenant of the LORD!” They will no longer think of it, or remember it, or miss it, or make another one.

-Jeremiah 3:16

Now, 2 Maccabees 2:4-8 –

The same document also tells how the prophet, in virtue of an oracle, ordered that the tent and the ark should accompany him, and how he went to the very mountain that Moses climbed to behold God’s inheritance. When Jeremiah arrived there, he found a chamber in a cave in which he put the tent, the ark, and the altar of incense; then he sealed the entrance. Some of those who followed him came up intending to mark the path, but they could not find it. When Jeremiah heard of this, he reproved them: “The place is to remain unknown until God gathers his people together again and shows them mercy. Then the Lord will disclose these things, and the glory of the Lord and the cloud will be seen, just as they appeared in the time of Moses and of Solomon when he prayed that the place might be greatly sanctified.”

-2 Maccabees 2:4-8

I trust that I need not explain the seeming contradiction…here the holy prophet, Jeremiah, prophesies that the ark of the old covenant will not appear again until the ingathering and the mercy of Israel, yet before in Jeremiah 3:16 he states that it will never be remembered again.

To summarize my own approach, I can only quote the words of St. Augustine:

“If in these books I meet anything which seems contrary to truth, I shall not hesitate to conclude either that the text is faulty, or that the translator has not expressed the meaning of the passage, or that I myself do not understand it.”

So, any thoughts?

 

[cemiller]

I do believe that at the end of times all things will be revealed. Maybe he was saying it will never be remembered by man until the Father lines us all up and shows us everything?

 

[Garyjohn2]

I dont see how those contradict at all actually…

The passage does not say it will never be remembered, just that people will no longer think of it. It says there will be a period of people no longer thinking about it. The possibility of that period coming to an end is not discounted anywhere in that first passage.

For example, I used to ride my bike all the time. However, I no longer ride my bike. That is a fact. I don’t even think of it. That doesn’t mean I will never ride my bike in the future, right?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I’ve seen much more difficult passages to reconcile than these. In the first passage Jeremiah is just saying the ark will no longer be a part of the Jewish life of worship after the return from the Babylonian Exile, which it was not, and probably also looking forward to the true New Covenant, in which the ark is also not used. The second passage records a legend recorded in a document that is presumably not inspired, so there is some question about whether the legend itself is accurate, rather than just Scripture’s report that the document said what it said (though in that case we would have to discern a reason for Scripture’s recording of the legend if it did not mean to imply that it is accurate). Even if the legend is accurate though, all it seems to say is that the location of the ark will someday be revealed. Since this didn’t happen at the First Coming, perhaps it will happen at the Second Coming. That doesn’t mean it will again be the at the center of the worship of God.

 

[TimothyH]

What seem like contradictions are usually resolved by looking at the authors and who their intended audience was.

Some of the prophets operated in the nation of Israel which consisted of the ten northern tribes who succeeded from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin when Solomon’s son became king. Israel, for the most part, had forsaken God and acted like the other nations around them. Some of the prophets however, operated in the south, in the land of Judah, where temple worship still took place and where, for the most part, God’s law was generally accepted. Other prophets such as Jonah, operated in foreign nations altogether.

I’m not saying that this particular context is the cause of the contradiction, but understanding the context often clears things up, at least for me.

Jerimiah operated in the south, in the land of Judah, prior to the Babylonian exile. His primary audience was the (mostly) obedient and faithful people who occupied Jerusalem. But we notice these words just prior to the passage from Jerimiah which you cite:

Then the LORD said to me: Rebel Israel is more just than traitor Judah.g 12Go, proclaim these words toward the north, and say: Return, rebel Israel—oracle of the LORD— I will not remain angry with you; For I am merciful, oracle of the LORD, I will not keep my anger forever. (Jerimiah 3:11:12)

The whole discourse seems to be a plea from God for the rebellious northern tribes to
return to God. The discourse about the Ark seems to be what will happen if the nation of Israel returns to God. Remember, the north did not have the Ark. The nation of Judah had the ark in the temple. Some in the north must have missed it dearly, or desired it greatly. So if Israel returns to God, they will not long for the Ark???

Maccabees however, is a completely different story written to a completely different audience. It was written post-exile, after the Jews had returned from Babylon. About 150 years before Christ, Alexander the Great, a Greek, had conquered the entire known world. He was so impressed with what he saw in Jerusalem that he let the Jews in the southern nation of Judah have thier own king and make their own laws. Nevertheless, after he died, the Greek kings who divided up the lands conquored by Alexander tried to “Hellenize” the world. They imposed Greek culture, language and most imporantly, Greek worship on the people of Israel and Judah, and they did so by force. Some people even went so far as to have their circumcision reversed to hide thier Jewishness - so that they looked Greek! Judas Maccabeus was the leader of a revolt against the Hellenizers. This is the context.

And anyway, in the passage cite, the Book of Maccabees is simply recounting what Jerimiah did in the past. And what Jerimiah prophesied came true. God did gather his people together and showed them mercy - Christ and his followers preached God to the Gentiles. The place where the Ark of God’s NEW covenant was revealed - the Ark of the new covenant is Mary. The cloud of God’s glory was seen as Christ ascended into heaven.

-Tim-

 

[Garyjohn2]

I’ve seen much more difficult passages to reconcile than these. In the first passage Jeremiah is just saying the ark will no longer be a part of the Jewish life of worship after the return from the Babylonian Exile, which it was not, and probably also looking forward to the true New Covenant, in which the ark is also not used. The second passage records a legend recorded in a document that is presumably not inspired, so there is some question about whether the legend itself is accurate, rather than just Scripture’s report that the document said what it said (though in that case we would have to discern a reason for Scripture’s recording of the legend if it did not mean to imply that it is accurate). Even if the legend is accurate though, all it seems to say is that the location of the ark will someday be revealed. Since this didn’t happen at the First Coming, perhaps it will happen at the Second Coming. That doesn’t mean it will again be the at the center of the worship of God.

I would echo what Tim said, the new ark was revealed to be Mary. The new law, that of Jesus Christ.

 

[Mintaka]

A prophet is a messenger of God. An angel is a messenger of God.

So if you see a passage talking about an angel of the Lord disappearing the Ark, and another talking about the prophet Jeremiah disappearing the Ark, it’s the same guy.

This is also why we call Mary "Queen of Angels"and “Queen of Prophets”, and why one of Jesus’ more obscure titles is “Angel of Good Counsel”, and why the Evangelists appear in the Book of Revelation in an angelic guise from the Book of Ezekiel. It’s how the prophet Malachi is going around with the name Malak-i (His angel).

Anyone who carries God’s messages can be called an angelos, a malak, a messenger, an angel. Including God Himself. No disrespect is intended to the beings of pure spirit whom we normally mean when we say “angel”.

As for the whole issue of being remembered versus returning, that really gets into all that anamnesis territory. But yes, most prophecies of dire happenings in the Bible are conditional. If the warned group remains fully rebellious, the full force and fury of the prophecy will ensue. If the warned group repents a lot or follows instructions faithfully (as in the Jonah story), the bad stuff will not happen because the conditions were not fulfilled. If they repent even a little, or even a few people repent, a prophecy can be greatly softened for their sake, or may only affect the unrepentant. If the warned group only pretends to repent, the prophecy will probably hit twice as hard.

Israel hasn’t forgotten the Ark entirely, because it didn’t give itself over completely to Hellenism or the Romans or any of that stuff. Also, Mary accepted becoming the New Ark, at which time she responded with perfect obedience to the Lord. So obviously the prophecy was softened. But truly dire things did happen.

 

[TimothyH]

A prophet is a messenger of God. An angel is a messenger of God.

So if you see a passage talking about an angel of the Lord disappearing the Ark, and another talking about the prophet Jeremiah disappearing the Ark, it’s the same guy.

This is also why we call Mary "Queen of Angels"and “Queen of Prophets”, and why one of Jesus’ more obscure titles is “Angel of Good Counsel”, and why the Evangelists appear in the Book of Revelation in an angelic guise from the Book of Ezekiel. It’s how the prophet Malachi is going around with the name Malak-i (His angel).

Anyone who carries God’s messages can be called an angelos, a malak, a messenger, an angel. Including God Himself. No disrespect is intended to the beings of pure spirit whom we normally mean when we say “angel”.

As for the whole issue of being remembered versus returning, that really gets into all that anamnesis territory. But yes, most prophecies of dire happenings in the Bible are conditional. If the warned group remains fully rebellious, the full force and fury of the prophecy will ensue. If the warned group repents a lot or follows instructions faithfully (as in the Jonah story), the bad stuff will not happen because the conditions were not fulfilled. If they repent even a little, or even a few people repent, a prophecy can be greatly softened for their sake, or may only affect the unrepentant. If the warned group only pretends to repent, the prophecy will probably hit twice as hard.

Israel hasn’t forgotten the Ark entirely, because it didn’t give itself over completely to Hellenism or the Romans or any of that stuff. Also, Mary accepted becoming the New Ark, at which time she responded with perfect obedience to the Lord. So obviously the prophecy was softened. But truly dire things did happen.

Insightful and educational. Thank you.

-Tim-

 

[readabible]

According to the Englishman’s Concordance, the word “yiz·kə·rū”, translated as “remember”, occurs twice in OT
Psalm 22:27
BIB: יִזְכְּר֤וּ ׀ וְיָשֻׁ֣בוּ אֶל־
Jer3:16
BIB: לֵ֑ב וְלֹ֤א יִזְכְּרוּ־ בוֹ֙ וְלֹ֣א

A significant detail for Christians with context of Jeremiah’s message being the Lord’s condemnation of Judah’s transgressions of law & the provocation of God’s anger w their adoration of the Queen of Heaven (jer7&44) to whom they’ve ascribed qualities & feats uniquely attributable to God. However:

[INDENTHebrews 10 ]For the law having a shadow of good things to come, & not the very image of the things, can never w those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then wouldn’t they have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there’s a remembrance again made of sins every year. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.[/INDENT]
&
2Tim3 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

&
Eph2For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast
&

Romans 11
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in & so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jeremiah 3 is prophesy of Messiah & the new covenant God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (john 3
&
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.Jeremiah 31

Men won’t need to call to mind the old covenant law again:
by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all & upon all them that believe: for there is no difference; For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Judah’s much needed “cure” for Jacob’s “incurable wound” is our salvation. This is the Grace of God by which gentiles got “grafted in to” the branch of Jesse ‘s tree and have become recipients of the benefit of the fully paid the penalty for the sin of them, who by faith, obtain righteousness unto redemption, aka… Him whom we call Christ Jesus.

1. nothing contradicts scripture and survives the wrath of God…Jews didn’t put Maccabees in the torah
2. His Word was, is, became flesh
3. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, to day, and for ever.

4.Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines(Heb13).
5. Cursed be the man that trusts in man and whose heart departeth from the Lord. (jer17)
6. the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (1Tim4)
&
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposes & exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2thess2)

The Queen of Heaven provoked God’s anger in Jer7&44, Luke 11:27 quotes Jesus rebuking some lady praising the paps that nursed him, sharply correcting her “blessed is he who hears the word of God & keeps it.” Scouring scripture for evidence that God changed His mind about cmd 2 bowing to no one but Him is futile. Mariolatry was imported from sun worship & resisted until 1854 RCC said its official. We’re warned of “the man of sin” who “changes the days and the times” (Daniel) teaching “doctrines of demons”. Jesus says "call no man on earth father for you have one Father that is in heaven” & title “holy father” is reserved for God, appearing as how Jesus called upon the ONLY Holy Father John17.

Vanity kills. Purgatory defined in 593 ad, earns RCC money but its precisely where catholics will end up, just as described by RCC, sadly it’s the description of hell as reworded by the devil himself. There is One God, One Word, One way everlasting life: Jesus Christ the Word of God read it, it is true and will set you free.