A compelling non-Catholic argument

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How do you interpret this verse:

Romans 1:3 (NASB)

**3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, **

**3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh **(KJV)

God bless,
Michael
 
protestantman said:
Hmmm apparently you did not see the word CURSED.
Curious that you think that something that is cursed is still good.

What do you say cursed means?
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Let’s not be so hasty to find a curse in things that are not cursed nor in judging what God created good to be evil. Go back and tell us just just what was cursed?

James
 
mikeledes said:
How do you interpret this verse:

Romans 1:3 (NASB)

3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh (KJV)

God bless,
Michael
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According to the flesh = (could mean)according to the perception of mankind.
Jesus was flesh, but it does not say it was Marys flesh. Remember his line to David was through Joseph.
 
protestantman said:
Both have seed, but sin comes from the seed of the father. Since the two seeds join to make one baby, sin is in the child.
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Still arguable Adam and Eve both sinned
The only scripture I can think of off the top of my head for original sin coming only from the father is
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(if there are others please share - I can’t think of any off the top of my head)

I would still say not a conclusive argument because man together with woman is considered “one” like you said.

Mary gave Jesus his human nature. So I didn’t much like it when you said she had nothing do do with it at all. Why will all the nations call her blest? She was specifically chosen by God she must have been the purest woman above all women.

PS: Another thought- At least modern day Jews get their Jewishness from the mother. They are considered born Jews only in the mother is Jewish not the father. That is at least my understanding from my Jewish friend.
 
mikeledes said:
Why do you believe it is impossible? Other Protestants do not share your view either.

God Bless,
Michael
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I believe that he was a decendant, in that he was the son of Joseph, son of… etc. But I do not believe that he was made from the biological genes of Mary or Joseph. I think that when it says consecrated (set apart for a holy purpouse) it points to something as unique as the creation of Adam
 
protestantman said:
According to the flesh = (could mean)according to the perception of mankind.
Jesus was flesh, but it does not say it was Marys flesh. Remember his line to David was through Joseph.
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So why is it impossible that Jesus was a blood descendant of David, considering that flesh could mean biological descent?

God Bless,
Michael
 
mikeledes said:
Is it possible that one of those geneologies is of Mary?

God Bless,
Michael
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They both are from Joseph.

Matthew 1:15-16
15Eliud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luke 3:23
23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
 
protestantman said:
I believe that he was a decendant, in that he was the son of Joseph, son of… etc. But I do not believe that he was made from the biological genes of Mary or Joseph. I think that when it says consecrated (set apart for a holy purpouse) it points to something as unique as the creation of Adam
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And you don’t believe having one biological parent and being born of a virgin is not unique? Or can any other human also be born the same way?

Was Jesus created of clay, like Adam? Did Jesus have a human wife, like Adam? Did Jesus have biological children, like Adam?

God Bless,
Michael
 
protestantman said:
No. He was only a descendat in that he was born of Mary. NOT CONSECRATED BY MARY. Note that OT lineage is through FATHER TO SON. Joseph was not Jesus’ true father. He was CONSECRATED by the Holy Spirit.

Remember that Mary was still a Virgin. Therefore Jesus was not born in a manner that can be considered Usual by any means. That is why Christ was refered to as the second Adam. What makes Christ Like Adam? Adam also did not have biological parents. Adam was also created without typical conseption. You can not avoid that Christ was unique. You can however argue that Mary was unique, unrighteous, seed of fallen man, etc.
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Are you inventing new semantics for descendant and consecrated? Does this work for adoption?

How does descendancy work in Jewish tradition when the blessings of the first born are stolen by the 2nd as was done with Esau and Jacob? Careful what precedence you take when using Jewish traditions. Recall that a Jewish mother (Rebekah) often has some say and maternal influence on lineage and birthrights too. 😉

James
 
protestantman said:
I believe that he was a decendant, in that he was the son of Joseph, son of… etc. But I do not believe that he was made from the biological genes of Mary or Joseph. I think that when it says consecrated (set apart for a holy purpouse) it points to something as unique as the creation of Adam
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So why did he have to be born of woman? Why wasn’t he just created from the dust of the earth as an adult, like Adam was?
 
protestantman said:
I believe that he was a decendant, in that he was the son of Joseph, son of… etc. But I do not believe that he was made from the biological genes of Mary or Joseph. I think that when it says consecrated (set apart for a holy purpouse) it points to something as unique as the creation of Adam
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Jeremiah was consecrated in his mother’s womb? He wasn’t a biological descendant of his mother?

God Bless,
Michael
 
protestantman said:
I believe that he was a decendant, in that he was the son of Joseph, son of… etc. But I do not believe that he was made from the biological genes of Mary or Joseph. I think that when it says consecrated (set apart for a holy purpouse) it points to something as unique as the creation of Adam
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That is interesting. Are you saying that the way you interpret scripture is that Jesus did not get his 100% complete Human nature form Mary?

No other Protestant Denomination I know of has taught that. That would be one of those unigue things to your particular church or to you alone. Now I can’t speak for every Protestant denomination or non-denom. But I do know the doctrinal position of at least 20 + on that particular issue. No unity.
 
deanarrca said:
Still arguable Adam and Eve both sinned
The only scripture I can think of off the top of my head for original sin coming only from the father is
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(if there are others please share - I can’t think of any off the top of my head)

I would still say not a conclusive argument because man together with woman is considered “one” like you said.

Mary gave Jesus his human nature. So I didn’t much like it when you said she had nothing do do with it at all. Why will all the nations call her blest? She was specifically chosen by God she must have been the purest woman above all women.

PS: Another thought- At least modern day Jews get their Jewishness from the mother. They are considered born Jews only in the mother is Jewish not the father. That is at least my understanding from my Jewish friend.
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Eve did sin, but it was all counted as the sin of Adam. They were one flesh, with Adam as the head. This means that eve’s sin was also accredited to Adam. Why did Christ allow Eve to sin without immediately addressing it? God waited until Adam had sinned before he addressed it. Adam bore the responsibility. He was the one created by God, in Gods image. Eve was created of man.
 
CentralFLJames said:
Are you inventing new semantics for descendant and consecrated? Does this work for adoption?

How does descendancy work in Jewish tradition when the blessings of the first born are stolen by the 2nd as was done with Esau and Jacob? Careful what precedence you take when using Jewish traditions. Recall that a Jewish mother (Rebekah) often has some say and maternal influence on lineage and birthrights too. 😉

James
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The new testament that God chose Jacob over Essau before they were ever born. Thus it was not a decision of the mother or father.
 
protestantman said:
The point is that sin is the result of MAN and not WOMAN. This point is evident throughout scripture.
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I don’t see any of Dan Brown’s works (e.g. Angles and Demons) in Scripture anywhere. Are you per chance reading apocryphal works? Does your bible have a Gnostic gospel in it?

I don’t think God’s Justice permits punishing an innocent with a guilty. Eve was explicitly punished for her participation.

James
 
jmcrae said:
So why did he have to be born of woman? Why wasn’t he just created from the dust of the earth as an adult, like Adam was?
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It became a part of the reason he was crucified. The Pharisees used this very fact to discredit Jesus claims as bieng the Son of God. The pharisees knew who Jesus’ parents were. Therefore it was necessary in that it would be one of the many reasons that he would later be crucified for.
 
deanarrca said:
That is interesting. Are you saying that the way you interpret scripture is that Jesus did not get his 100% complete Human nature form Mary?

No other protestant denomination I know of has taught that. That would be one of those unigue things to your particular church. Now I can’t speak for every Protestant denomination or non-denom. But I do know the doctrinal position of at least 20 + on that particular issue. No unity.
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Did we just witness the birth of yet another Protestant sect today?

Someone toggle the Protestant odometer hit-counter please…

James
 
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