A concern

[eucharist04]

I have taken note that catholicism in other countries(i.e.Haiti) mix paganism with catholicism. This gives anti-catholics ammunion to use against the church. Why does it seem that The Vatican does not deal with this?

 

[Trishie]

Wouldn’t you say it’s endemic? In the US, and about any nations you could name, we mix Christ with Coca-Cola’s invention, a secular Santa Claus, [idea stolen from a Bishop, St Nicholas] with Christ’s birth, the secular Easter Bunny and Easter eggs to distract us from Jesus death and resurrection, Hallowe’en to distract us from All Soul’s Day…these are so much part of our societies now…and yet it is in fact a paganism and a secularism that most people comfortably accept. In fact the humanist manifesto has been very successful.

It’s a good thing to celebrate these occasions, but with a Christian consciousness, but to a great extent, our societies have been effectively weaned from the Christian significance of these events. True, St Nicholas could not bear the poor to be denied essentials at the celebration of Christ’s birth so gave gifts of food and necessities…but this idea has disappeared from our societies, though not from our churches at Christmas.

 

[Fidelis]

I have taken note that catholicism in other countries(i.e.Haiti) mix paganism with catholicism. This gives anti-catholics ammunion to use against the church. Why does it seem that The Vatican does not deal with this?

Since I (and I’m presuming you) don’t live in Haiti or any of these “other countries” it is not possible to say what “the Vatican” is or is not doing about it. Giving their pastors the benefit of the doubt, I am assuming that they are doing their best to educate their people. Keep in mind, however, that countries like Haiti are extremely poor, the infrastructure and educational system are, by our standards, very inadequate and as everywhere there is a shortage of priests and qualified catechists (heck, most Catholics in our own country barely know the Faith). Combine this with a very strong tradition of superstition and culture and you have a long row to hoe. Ever consider being a missionary to these places and becoming part of the solution?

Apart from addressing the above factors, what would you have “the Vatican” do — start an Inquisition? I think anti-Catholics have enough “ammunition” leftover from all the lies and propaganda invented about the first one.

 

[1ke]

I have taken note that catholicism in other countries(i.e.Haiti) mix paganism with catholicism. This gives anti-catholics ammunion to use against the church. Why does it seem that The Vatican does not deal with this?

Catholicism does not mix paganism with Catholicism.

Individual people in various places around the world might do so, but the Church does not teach or condone this.

What would you propose the Vatican do?

 

[DavidFilmer]

The Vatican does not deal with this?

For starters, it’s not the Vatican’s job. Problems such as you describe fall entirely within the jurisdiction of the local Bishop.

Why do so many Catholics expect the Vatican or the Pope to get involved in every local issue? Why don’t Catholics realize that the Bishops (not the Pope) are actually the ones who are solely responsible for problems in their dioceses?

And the Bishops are not omniscient or omnipresent - they rely on the Faithful to report problems and abuses, as well as taking a stand against them.

It’s not up to the Pope - it’s really up to us. We are, after all, the Body of Christ. If we don’t take a stand against abuses going on around us, there’s little the Bishop can do.

Liturgical abuses are not confined to Haiti. It happens right here in Portland, Oregon. Several years ago, I reported an abuse to our Bishop (actually, Archbishop), and the matter was handled.

 

[Scottgun]

Always ask for a concrete example. There are 6.023x10^23 accusations out that the someone, somewhere (one of those countries with lots of dark-hued people probably) is doing something that could look like pagan practice. This is utterly useless. Put on a journalist-s hat and get the who, what, when, where and why before going into analysis.

 

[Highwayhound]

The only foreign country in which I have attended mass and seen how the catholics conduct themselves is FRANCE.

Nothing was amiss - so good for the French

God bless

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I have taken note that catholicism in other countries(i.e.Haiti) mix paganism with catholicism. This gives anti-catholics ammunion to use against the church. Why does it seem that The Vatican does not deal with this?

Well, the Vatican can’t micromanage every sect of Catholicism.

Besides, Catholicism does continue to have pagan undertones, to an extent, but it’s understandable: At the time that the Catholic Church was established, they had pagans to compete with. It’s only natural that small pagan customs rubbed off.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[puzzleannie]

you are right, the Vatican should train a CIA division of the Swiss Guards to investigate such heresies or revive the Inquisition to round up the usual suspects and burn them at the stake.

You do realize the Vatican does not have police powers to enforce teaching on clerics and laity who disregard Church teaching.

 

[Scottgun]

you are right, the Vatican should train a CIA division of the Swiss Guards to investigate such heresies or revive the Inquisition to round up the usual suspects and burn them at the stake.

You do realize the Vatican does not have police powers to enforce teaching on clerics and laity who disregard Church teaching.

Haha. It’s like finding out the Mafia burns holy cards in their induction ceremonies and saying, “Why doesn’t the Holy Father do something about it?” (But then they might say the Church is in bed with gangters with in a deal over Immobiliare )

 

[survive]

Always ask for a concrete example. There are 6.023x10^23 accusations out that the someone, somewhere (one of those countries with lots of dark-hued people probably) is doing something that could look like pagan practice. This is utterly useless. Put on a journalist-s hat and get the who, what, when, where and why before going into analysis.

This raises questions: What is the weight of one mole of accusations? And what does a journalist’s hat look like?:hey_bud: :takeoff: :irish2: But you make a valid point. We don’t have to refute every rumor. Only the common or plausible ones. And the burden is on the accuser.

 

[Church_Militant]

I have taken note that Catholicism in other countries(i.e.Haiti) mix paganism with Catholicism.

Do they? The only place I ever hear this from is a-Cs, and have never heard anything about it from a reliable source.

This gives anti-Catholics ammunition to use against the church.

But let’s be realistic. The fact that we still exist as what we are is sufficient ammo for most all of them. It wouldn’t matter if we were all impeccable, they would still find some fault and attack the faith anyway.

This is very much like Our Lord said.
Luke 7 :32 They are like to children sitting in the marketplace, and speaking one to another, and saying: We have piped to you, and you have not danced: we have mourned, and you have not wept.

Matthew 11:17 Who crying to their companions say: We have piped to you, and you have not danced: we have lamented, and you have not mourned.

Be sure to check out the context of these verses.

Why does it seem that The Vatican does not deal with this?

Don’t you suppose that the pastors in those areas are diligently working on that all with the full support of the Holy See? I do.

 

[rwoehmke]

What makes you all think that other Christian Denominations do not suffer from the same problems where animism and witchcraft have been the old religions. It’s not a whole lot different than some of the customs followed by different ethnic groups during Catholic holiday festivities like Christmas, Easter, Epiphany, etc. Some practices cross the line and some don’t.