A Confused Catholic

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bkeesee

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Greetings everyone,
So the past few months have been a huge trial for me. Just for a little background, I’m a 19 year old Catholic who has had a vocation to the monastic life for many years now. However, over the past year I have been more hesitant. My faith hasn’t changed, nor has my calling. However, my faith in the Church has began to waver.

The Vatican has become far too liberal and I have begun to become skeptical with some of the Church/Bible’s teachings. In ancient times, the Church fought furiously for the faith, now the Church is more interested in not insulting other’s and their faiths/beliefs, regardless of what they say about our’s. I understand Christ’s teaching to turn the other cheek, but at what point do we get to stand up for ourselves? The Templars and the faithful of old fought and died for the faith.

I love the Church, but the modern Church is weak and will lose Europe if things don’t change.
 
Don’t leave Peter because of Judas.

Some of the greatest saints of the Church have emerged from the most divided times.
 
Pick up your own cross and follow Jesus. Offer up this ‘suffering’ to God.
 
The Church has lost Europe. Moreover, the loss cannot be attributed to any changes coming from Vatican II. The demographic loss began in the 50s and was not limited to the Catholic Church, but also decimated mainline Protestant denominations.

What the Church is now trying to do, especially under Pope Francis, is meet people where they are and introduce them gradually to timeless Truth. But it’s a hard slog. Insulting people is not the way to go.

I encourage you for a monastic vocation and will pray for you. I am an oblate if a relatively conservative Benedictine community. That is they are doctrinally and liturgically conservative (Mass of Paul VI and post-Conciliar monastic breviary but in Gregorian chant), but are pastorally…I won’t say Liberal, but realistic.

When anyone approaches them for counselling, they meet the person, whether believer or not, where they are. They do not judge the person. If the person perseveres in counselling, they will delicately expose him or her to the truth as if they were peeling slowly away the layers of an onion.

The Rule of Saint Benedict says monks are to greet all who come to the monastery as if it were Christ Himself showing up at the door. And that is regardless of the person’s status in the Church. We all bear Christ’s mark on our souls whether we recognize it or not. The Rule guides the life of Benedictines, Cistercians and Trappists.

If your vocation is truly to seek God in love and charity, you will make it and will grow in your own Christian perfection. On the other hand, if it is to isolate yourself from the world because you think your view is the correct one and the world is going to hell in a handbasket, you will fail and will be flushed out by any halfway competent novice master. Remember the whole community gets to vote on accepting you. As one monk told me, he bacame a monk because he was a bad Christian and needed the structure of the monastery for him to grow in Christian charity.

God bless you on your journey!
 
Friend, the church has not changed. The people in the church may b emphasizing different things, but The Church has not changed. Running away isn’t the answer. Charge ahead with your plans and BE the change you want to see. Show us by example.
 
Focus on your faithfulness “in the little details of your day” and ignore the drama-politics, real, hopped-up, or only apparent.

Focus on “consistency” in your prayer life, constency in small sacrifices, consistency in natural frienships, consistency in your approach to the Sacraments.
 
bkeesee said:
I love the Church, but the modern Church is weak and will lose Europe if things don’t change
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Your whole post makes me wonder what you’ve been reading and who you’ve been listening too. The things you’ve said are all wrong, over generalized, and just sound like rad trad talking points.

You appear to not know much about Catholicism. There is no good to publicly speak about things that you are unfamiliar with. Ask questions and listen. Be careful who you listen to. @OraLabora gave an excellent post for you.
 
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Every new pope brings with him his past, passions, talents and gifts. He comes from a different culture, tradition, social and economical structure than the previous pope/s. If he becomes a copy of the previous pope, he will be a very bad pope. St John Paul II was more of a philosopher if you read his written works , pope Benedict XVI more theologian and pope Francis is pastoral. All of them needed in their time and a continuation on the previous. This is for every bishop, priest, deacon, brother and sister as well.

The Church´s biggest challenge today is to meet people who believe they don’t need God. This is different compared to centuries ago when people believed in a god. Todays people have made themselves god in the way they speak, act and live. I, me and mine are more important and used words than we, us and our. The language needs to be different as people don’t understand typical “church words”. Not watered down but explained in a different way often using situations that were not common say 50 years ago. It is a challenge to talk about God as a Father with people who haven’t grown up with a father around or had an unknown sperm donor.

Every council and church meeting had to deal with issues and problems of their time. If it wasn’t the Trinity and if Jesus was both divine and human at the same time then they were on other important topics like family and worship.
 
On behalf of all those whose actions have threatened your faith in Holy Mother Church, I apologize. The sinful actions of Catholics are always scandalous. The Church NEEDS you and your prayers for her and her members. From my naïve perspective, I think besides Poland, most of Europe has been lost. But, hey Luke 10:2, right? The European situation should motivate you towards prayer, not cause you to lose heart!
 
Keep in mind that God’s ways are not at all like our ways. For one thing, God has always chosen and worked through apparent weakness rather than strength. We don’t know what God is up to, but He has a plan, even if things seem bad or worse in our eyes. Trust is the key.
 
I pray that you will be successful in fulfilling your desire for a monastic life.

At age 19 you have Wisdom to see that all is not as united as it should be. Opinions and methods do differ. So they did among the Apostles - debates occurred then and debates have constantly occurred throughout history. But Christ promised the Holy Spirit to guide us and Truth will prevail.

Questions for you -
  1. If the Church is becoming too liberal and conservatives refuse to be consecrated, will the Church you love then become more liberal?
  2. Will you be in a better place to advance Church teachings in a consecrated life or in a civilian life?
  3. It is hard for a 20 year old to correct a 60 year old abbot, bishop, cardinal. But, with more education and experience comes credibility. Do you have the strength to be patient as you grow into more Wisdom and Understanding?
  4. What are the differences in the various orders? Which one or two seem to appeal to you the most?
 
As a fellow traditionalist I can somewhat empathize with your sentiment. Still, there is only one Church, and while her body may change, for better or worse, her Truth and authority are absolute, even today.

You must remember that Satan tries especially hard to drive people like yourself away from the Church, and the easiest way for him to do that when it comes to us traditionalists is appealing to our pride. Many good people have been led astray in this manner, today and historically. There was a conflict in the Church just when Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire, where many of the people who had been strong enough to endure the persecutions under Rome finally left, because they were outraged that those who had apostasised could still come back to the Church now that it was without consequence.

Add the fact that the Arian heresy became widespread in the Church just a few years after, and you can imagine how they must have felt about the state of the Church back then. They were wrong, however, and it only goes to show the shrewdness with which Satan lures souls away, using even a great event like the Christianization of the Roman Empire to his advantage.

Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that you shouldn’t let your pride drive you to apostasy because some of the temporal parts of the Church of this age aren’t to your liking.
 
GratefulFred said:
It is hard for a 20 year old to correct a 60 year old abbot, bishop, cardinal.
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In a monastic context, it is in fact impossible for a 20 year old to correct a 60 year old abbot, or any abbot of any age. The Rule of Saint Benedict makes that crystal clear, and the three vows of a monk are obedience, stability and conversion.

The Rule also says an abbot can and must seek the advice of all called to council, including the youngest because “sometimes God selects the youngest to deliver His message”, but that most certainly does not involve “correcting”. It means giving one’s opinion with humility.
 
bkeesee said:
I’m a 19 year old Catholic who has had a vocation to the monastic life for many years now.
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How did you determine this?
bkeesee said:
My faith hasn’t changed…However, my faith in the Church has began to waver.
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I am confused. How can both of these be true?
bkeesee said:
The Vatican has become far too liberal
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Can you give an example?
bkeesee said:
I have begun to become skeptical with some of the Church/Bible’s teachings.
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Such as?
bkeesee said:
I understand Christ’s teaching to turn the other cheek, but at what point do we get to stand up for ourselves? The Templars and the faithful of old fought and died for the faith.
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Are you saying you would prefer to kill others that don’t believe, rather than being a monastic?
 
Thanks for providing the needed clarity.

Giving one’s opinion with humility when asked and obedience to decisions taken are high skills.

Opinion should be based on well read sources.

My use of the term ‘correcting’ was overstated. An excellent leader takes in advice and adjusts as needed to achieve better. Lesser leaders see it as an attempt to correct.
 
If you really think you have a vocation, then have you considered that these thoughts about the Vatican being “too liberal” and such might be the Devil trying to steer you away from your vocation by sowing doubt in your mind about the Church?
 
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bkeesee said:
The Vatican has become far too liberal and I have begun to become skeptical with some of the Church/Bible’s teachings. In ancient times, the Church fought furiously for the faith, now the Church is more interested in not insulting other’s and their faiths/beliefs, regardless of what they say about our’s. I understand Christ’s teaching to turn the other cheek, but at what point do we get to stand up for ourselves? The Templars and the faithful of old fought and died for the faith.
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I certainly understand why you’d think this. But the Church is a huge thing. It would be wrong to focus too much on a particular point in history or a particular group of priests and bishops.

We are called to do our part, whatever it is, to make the Church better. We don’t get to abandon our duty if others aren’t doing their part.

Also we shouldn’t think there was some perfect time in the Church or that we can make that time now. The Church is full of sinful men including ourselves.

Out succinctly, do your own duty whatever it may be, and don’t worry so much about others.
 
It isn’t a difficult time to be a faithful Catholic, but it is difficult time to be a fearful Catholic. It is difficult for one who has put their faith in their own abilities or in the laws and traditions instead of in Christ, His Love, His Mercy and His words “That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”

Anybody who does not have their faith firmly planted in Jesus Christ will surely be shaken. If your faith is in the type of Mass you attend, or the amount of times you say certain prayers, then your faith will be shaken.

The sky is not falling. But the things we have clung to that have always brought us security, may be falling… in order that we would trust in Christ more.
 
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