A Contradiction?

  • Thread starter Thread starter cspb56
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

cspb56

Guest
In Matthew 16:19 we read “I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Back a few years ago the late Pope John Paul II stated the church did not have the authority to ordain women. Now I personally am ambivalent as to the whole womens ordination issue. What the church decides I abide with. But his Holiness’ statement seems to contradict Jesus’ words to Peter. I would be interested in hearing from someone who has knowledge of scripture what they think. I’m not a scripture expert in any way.
 
he didnt say it couldnt be done he just said we are not authorized to do so. however i hav a friend who is a validly ordained femalepriest however it was not authorized.
 
crowcounty said:
he didnt say it couldnt be done he just said we are not authorized to do so. however i hav a friend who is a validly ordained femalepriest however it was not authorized.
Click to expand...
A woman cannot be ordained, validly or otherwise. The priest is in persona Christi, and as Christ Himself was male, so too must His representatives be male.
 
GeorgeSword said:
A woman cannot be ordained, validly or otherwise. The priest is in persona Christi, and as Christ Himself was male, so too must His representatives be male.
Click to expand...
so according to you the holy spirit is not omnipotent?
 
No woman can be ordained, because the Apostles received no commandment from the Lord concerning it.
 
cspb56 said:
In Matthew 16:19 we read “I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Back a few years ago the late Pope John Paul II stated the church did not have the authority to ordain women. Now I personally am ambivalent as to the whole womens ordination issue. What the church decides I abide with. But his Holiness’ statement seems to contradict Jesus’ words to Peter. I would be interested in hearing from someone who has knowledge of scripture what they think. I’m not a scripture expert in any way.
Click to expand...
The authority to bind and to loose is not indefinite. It cannot go against the teaching of Jesus for example. It operates insofar it’s not against the teaching of the Church and the Gospel.
Women ordination is another issue and you can dedicate a whole thread to it. In any case Catholic Church objection to it is for reasons well established. This is nothing new. Only now the issue comes out and we would wonder why.

So the Pope did not contradict Jesus words to Peter as there was no command to ordain women to the priesthood. Basically the authority to bind and to loose refers to the Sacrament of Confession and perhaps other function of the priests to allow them in smooth running of the Church.
 
no man gets to tell the holy spirit what he cant do.

joel 2:29
timothy 3: 8-13
and did you know that of the original 72 two were female?

were you aware that brigid of kildare recieved an episcopal ordination?

how about pope joan?

with god all things are possible is what i read and heard and have experienced
 
Reuben_J said:
So the Pope did not contradict Jesus words to Peter as there was no command to ordain women to the priesthood.
Click to expand...
Personally, I agree with OP in that whatever Rome decrees regarding ordaining women, I’ll not argue with. But I just had to pick a nit with this statement. Jesus may not have given specific orders to ordain women, but did he specifically say that women are not to be ordained? And please don’t fall back on the argument that he only chose men. As crowcountry pointed out, there were women in the group sent out to evangelize.
 
GeorgeSword said:
A woman cannot be ordained, validly or otherwise. The priest is in persona Christi, and as Christ Himself was male, so too must His representatives be male.
Click to expand...
RESPONSE:

This is one of the more recent reasons given for not ordaining women as priests.

But it is not the traditional one. The real reason is women’s inferior nature.

This can be found in Aquinas’ Summa Theologica, Supplement, Question 39:

"Accordingly, since it is not possible in the female sex to signify eminence of degree, for a woman is in the state of subjection, it follows that she cannot receive the sacrament of Order.
 
GeorgeSword said:
A woman cannot be ordained, validly or otherwise. The priest is in persona Christi, and as Christ Himself was male, so too must His representatives be male.

RESPONSE
Click to expand...
Really? How about this:

Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

JPM
 
crowcounty said:
so according to you the holy spirit is not omnipotent?
Click to expand...
I don’t see what this has to do with the Omnipresence of Our Lord. Besides, it isn’t my statement. It isn’t according to me. It isn’t my view. It is the Church’s teaching. I simply repeat it. If you have issues with it, don’t take it up with me. Take it up with God.
 
Eucharisted said:
No woman can be ordained, because the Apostles received no commandment from the Lord concerning it.
Click to expand...
RESPONSE:

Really? Then please cite the “commandment from the Lord” prohibiting artificial birth control.
 
seagal said:
Personally, I agree with OP in that whatever Rome decrees regarding ordaining women, I’ll not argue with. But I just had to pick a nit with this statement. Jesus may not have given specific orders to ordain women, but did he specifically say that women are not to be ordained? And please don’t fall back on the argument that he only chose men. As crowcountry pointed out, there were women in the group sent out to evangelize.
Click to expand...
The 72 disciples were evangelizers, most were not Bishops. Women are encouraged to evangelize in the Catholic Church.

The argument from NOT is a non-starter - Jesus did not say NOT to use milk and cookies for communion, to NOT baptize with coca-cola, to NOT do a lot of things. As Catholics, we give Sacred Tradition equal weight - the actions and oral teachings of the Apostles are the same as Christ’s teachings. Christ did not ordain women to the priesthood or episcopate, neither did the Apostles, nor their successors, nor can the Catholic Church.

Pope Joan never happened - complete legend proven false hundreds of years ago… and St. Brigid was not a bishop, she was Abbess of her Convent.
 
JP_Marat said:
RESPONSE
Click to expand...
Really? How about this:

Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

JPM

“You are all one if Christ Jesus” – doesn’t say anything about “You are all to be part of the ordained priesthood” – baptism makes us all one, doesn’t mean there are no unique gifts among us.
 
JP_Marat said:
RESPONSE
Click to expand...
Really? How about this:

Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

JPM

That has nothing to do with the priesthood. It is saying that it matters not what our nationality is, our gender, our place in society. We are one in Christ.
You may not pick and choose the teachings of the Church. Women are not to be ordained, and that is the teaching of the Church. His Holiness John Paul II the Great left little doubt for this when he wrote: “Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance…I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.”
 
Really? Then please cite the “commandment from the Lord” prohibiting artificial birth control.
Click to expand...
Just wondering…what are you trying to get at with this question inside this thread?
 
SyroMalankara said:
The 72 disciples were evangelizers, most were not Bishops. Women are encouraged to evangelize in the Catholic Church.

The argument from NOT is a non-starter - Jesus did not say NOT to use milk and cookies for communion, to NOT baptize with coca-cola, to NOT do a lot of things. As Catholics, we give Sacred Tradition equal weight - the actions and oral teachings of the Apostles are the same as Christ’s teachings. Christ did not ordain women to the priesthood or episcopate, neither did the Apostles, nor their successors, nor can the Catholic Church.

Pope Joan never happened - complete legend proven false hundreds of years ago… and St. Brigid was not a bishop, she was Abbess of her Convent.
Click to expand...
well stated but you gotta admit that old irish story about how they accidently read the bishop consecration over brighid is pretty cool.
 
GeorgeSword said:
I don’t see what this has to do with the Omnipresence of Our Lord. Besides, it isn’t my statement. It isn’t according to me. It isn’t my view. It is the Church’s teaching. I simply repeat it. If you have issues with it, don’t take it up with me. Take it up with God.
Click to expand...
God is omnipotenet

God is also Omnipresent.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top