A Convicted Evangelical (Church of Christ)

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Send me the post number of your response, as I asked earlier today for those who wanted a response. Only a few have provided me the needed info.
My friend go back and read your very first post,so please provide the historical evidence supporting a nineteenth century church dates back to the first century. Do actually intend to do such a thing?
 
  1. The earliest non canonical writings suggest that baptism is for the forgiveness of sins, administered primarily by immersion to believing and consenting individuals. The Church of Christ is in harmony.
Does your church administer baptism “primarily” by immersion or “only” by immersion? I was under the impression it was “only”–in which case, I think, I would argue that the church of Christ is not in harmony.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
bwmnstar;9396436 said:
1)
Good for the Church of Christ for returning to this biblical truth, that baptism is for the forgiveness of sins, and not just a symbol like many Baptists and JW’s and such would have it.
Of course other churches have elders too. But I feel that the earliest non-canonical sources do indicate a bishop and prebytery.
Many groups have what I call a “gimmick.” For example, the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ gimmick is to make a big deal about using “Jehovah” and since they do, it makes them the true religion. The Seventh Day Adventists worship on Saturday and since they do it, that makes them the true religion. A gimmick of the CofC is singing a capella so that is a sign they are the true church.

I guess the Catholic and Orthodox churches have a gimmick too. Their gimmick is that they have been in continuous existence stemming from the apostles, with bishops officially sanctioned by the Holy Spirit.

A sign for me of the true church is one that is like Yahweh, I AM. The Catholic and Orthodox churches haven’t been artificially formed by men, they simply ARE.
I totally agree. I have a very hard time understanding why more people don’t see historical fact. The succession isn’t made up. I can’t think of any credible schollar who, after looking at the evidence, would deny this.

I’ve seen many here on this site debate what Jesus meant about The Rock, The Church, etc… But I’ve never seen anyone flat-out say that Apostolic Succession is baloney. Even die-hard Protestants I know personally skirt around that with things like; “this isn’t what Jesus wanted his Church to be like;” but never anything close to denying successon.

The Catholic Church is 2000 years old, and traces it’s origins all the way back to Jesus Christ.

That’s quite a gimmick, indeed.
 
You quoted me as saying: “The earliest non canonical writings suggest that baptism is for the forgiveness of sins, administered primarily by immersion to believing and consenting individuals. The Church of Christ is in harmony.”
Really? It is in harmony? Tell me how one living in the middle of the blazing hot desert or ice cold waters is to be fully immersed? Evidently your church is exclusive as to who can and cannot meet the requirements?
Quote:Nicea
This is a merely a half-truth statement. I already mentioned to you that the first converts were consenting and believing adults because there wasn’t any cradle Christians. Second, please show me in the NT where it explicitly states the only acceptable method of baptism is immersion and all others are unacceptable? Third, please show me in the NT where the only norm or standard to baptize is based on “believing” and consenting people?
The meaning of the word baptism is to immerse, to plunge or dip. Pouring and sprinkling are distinct from baptism in the Greek (chio and rantizo I believe). I’m arguing that the primary mode of the rite was by immersion, and was simply stating that the Churches of Christ have retained the normal method of administering the sacrament. Where in the New Testament does the word imply that individuals were sprinkled or poured on when they were baptized?
If you are suggesting the NT is silent on pouring and sprinkling,then it is clear you are stating full immersion is the ONLY acceptable method? Again…where does the NT clearly declare it as the ONLY valid method? BTW: The Didache says otherwise.
Quote:Nicea325
Can you present a case of any “believing” and “consenting” 13-21 year old is baptized?
I’m not sure what you mean by this statement.
Yes. You stated one must be a “believing” person in order to be baptized-right? Do you have a case in the NT apart from believing adults where a young child or young adult is ONLY baptized after he believes?
“The earliest non-canonical sources indicate a plurality of elders in each church and not a bishop presiding over the rest of the presbytery. The church of Christ still maintains this type of church polity.”
Yes…even the Diocese I work has a pluarity of elders (bishops),but only ONE is the head over the entire region. The NT mentions bishops (1 Tim 3:1-7) and even my NKJV Study Bible reads: This Greek word refers to a person (singular) who oversees a congregation. The word bishop and elder are interchangable for the same office. No reference to church government being operated under the only acceptale method of pluarity of elders.
Quote:Nicea325:
Not entirely true. Again,show me were the NT forbids a single bishop presiding over a community? How about any ECF claiming the only method of governing is through a pluarity of elders?
The earliest non-canonical sources do indicate a plurality of elders in each church and not a bishop presiding over the rest of the presbytery. What part of this statement is not entirely true? The earliest documents that reference church polity are the Didache and 1 Clement. They harmonize with the NT teaching that a plurality of elders governs the church. Where does the NT teach that a bishop is different than an elder, or for that matter, that a bishop presides over the presbytery? And remember, “Those closest in time were in a better position to testify to apostolic examples than later witnesses. That should be obvious, even if this consideration is often ignored” (Everett Ferguson).
This has been answered before in the past long before your church existed.
“Elect therefore for yourselves bishops and deacons who are worthy of the Lord, men who are meek, not lovers of money, true, and tested. For they minister to you the service of the prophets and teachers. Do not look down on them, for they are your honored men along with the prophets and teachers.” (15)
More proof-texting or quote mining and taken out-of-context.Bad…bad interpretation on your part. No where does the above make reference to church structure or how it is to be operated.
Clement of Rome:
“They preached [the apostles] district by district and city by city and appointed their first converts, after testing them by the Spirit, as bishops and deacons of those who were going to believe….For thus the Scripture says somewhere, “I will appoint their bishops in righteousness and their deacons in faith”
Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife concerning the episcopate. For this cause and having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those we mentioned above and afterward gave the rule that if they died other tested men should succeed to their ministry. The men therefore who have been appointed by the apostles and afterward by other eminent men with the consent of the whole church and who have ministered umblameably to the flock of Chris humbly, quietly, and unselfishly, men who have been well testified to for many years by all, these men we do not consider it just to expel from their ministry. For it will be no small sin to us if we cast out from the episcopate those who have offered the gifts unblameably and holily. Blessed are those elders who have died previously and and had a fruitful and perfect departure. They have no fear that someone remove them from their established place. For we see that you have removed some who have conducted themselves well from the ministry which has been unblameably honored by them.” (42,44).
Another case of taking the words of ECF out-of-context. Where in the above does Clement state church government is to be run and operated by a pluarity of elders and not one bishop? Where…?
“The old woman came and asked me if I had already given the book to the elders. I replied that I had not given it. That is all right, she said, for I have words to add. When I have finisehed all the words, they shall be made known by you to all the elect. You shall write therefore two books and you shall send one to Clement and one to Grapte. Clement then shall send it to the cities abroad, for that is his duty. Grapte shall admonish the widows and orphans. But you shall read it for this city with the elders who preside over the church.” (Visions 2.4.2-3).
Again…taken out-of-context. Where is church government structure and function described? Because it mentions elders it proves it? Bad interpretation.
You quoted me as saying:
“The ECF’s mandate singing with acapella worship. The Churches of Christ sing Acapella style.”
Quote:Nicea325
Really? Please show this mandate by Ignatius or Ambrose or Jerome?
Please show me one early church father that supports instrumental usage in worship.
You are dodging the question posed at you. Please show me these mandates by the ECF stating acapella is the only acceptable method?
I referenced the Catholic Encylcopedia, as well as various patristic sources, all of which conclude that the primary method of singing was Acapella for roughly the first thousand years of Christianity
.

Sources pleases…and the entire sources,not just isolated statements.
Can you submit evidence of the contrary?
Speaking of irony at its best? And can you submit evidence of your nineteenth century church historically being founded in the first century?
Failure of Ambrose, Ignatius, and Jerome to mention singing does not prove or disprove anything. It certaintly isn’t proof that they supported instrumental music.
Oh I see! It proves nothing of the sort,but it sure proves your position without any doubt-seriously? No offense,but I have come to the conclusion you are not here to hear others due to your failure to answer everything posed at you. Moreover,you are here to isolate statements from ECF to prove your agenda that the Churches of Christ stem back to the first century. You have a lot to learn about the ECF and historical matters.

Your absolute failure to support your original opening statement speaks volumes!
 
bwmnstar,

Since you seem obsessed with the Baptism controversy, take a look at scripturecatholic.com/baptism.html specifically the “Pouring and Sprinkling versus Immersion” and “Infant Baptism” sections.
I am waiting…still for bwmnstar to present the historical evidence that the Churches of Christ was founded in the 1st century? As to today…ZILCH! I want to read them because apparently my graduate school never allowed us to examine such sources? I should ask for a refund?
 
I am waiting…still for bwmnstar to present the historical evidence that the Churches of Christ was founded in the 1st century? As to today…ZILCH! I want to read them because apparently my graduate school never allowed us to examine such sources? I should ask for a refund?
Your graduate school? Are you a priest or bishop or something?
 
mackbrislawn;9399189:
I totally agree. I have a very hard time understanding why more people don’t see historical fact. The succession isn’t made up. I can’t think of any credible schollar who, after looking at the evidence, would deny this.

I’ve seen many here on this site debate what Jesus meant about The Rock, The Church, etc… But I’ve never seen anyone flat-out say that Apostolic Succession is baloney. Even die-hard Protestants I know personally skirt around that with things like; “this isn’t what Jesus wanted his Church to be like;” but never anything close to denying successon.

The Catholic Church is 2000 years old, and traces it’s origins all the way back to Jesus Christ.

That’s quite a gimmick, indeed.
🙂

You know, it’s funny. The Jehovah’s Witnesses in one of their books deny that Apostolic Succession is a biblical teaching. But, then they turn around and have the exact same thing in their organization! They have a president (pope) with a governing body (cardinals), and overseers and elders (bishops and priests), that have perpetuated themselves since the Watchtower corporation was founded.

In fact, that is how any organization retains its identity from generation to generation. A succession of office holders. The true church will have its succession from the apostles. A man-made church will have succession too, but its succession will start from the man or woman that invented the church.
 
Your graduate school? Are you a priest or bishop or something?
There are Catholics here who have degrees in Theology (Master’s, ThD, and others), and also linguistics (studying biblical greek, ecclesiastical latin, and others).
 
Wait, which one are you, a priest or a bishop? Or are you an archbishop? Or a cardinal?
 
mackbrislawn;9399189:
I totally agree. I have a very hard time understanding why more people don’t see historical fact. The succession isn’t made up. I can’t think of any credible schollar who, after looking at the evidence, would deny this.

I’ve seen many here on this site debate what Jesus meant about The Rock, The Church, etc… But I’ve never seen anyone flat-out say that Apostolic Succession is baloney. Even die-hard Protestants I know personally skirt around that with things like; “this isn’t what Jesus wanted his Church to be like;” but never anything close to denying successon.

The Catholic Church is 2000 years old, and traces it’s origins all the way back to Jesus Christ.

That’s quite a gimmick, indeed.
Rf,

Now if these guys were smart they would start a church where the central focus was bread and wine based on what the OHCAC has done. It seems to hold things together.
 
I believe I know the CoC well. My husband belongs to the CoC and I attend Church with him every Sunday and he goes to Mass with me. We’ve been doing it for 15 years. Most everyone there are wonderful genuine people. I have a lot of respect for them and their commitment to God. So my responses are not an attack on the CoC; just standing up for my Faith. I will pray for us all to be united as Christ desires.

Answers to your questions:

1 and 2). I know the Catholic Church is the true Church and not the Church you refer to as the Church of Christ because of the Eucharist. The bible teaches us of the true presence of Christ, yet the CoC believes this is only symbolic. Also when I read any history on the early Church I find many Catholics dying for their faith and their belief in consuming the body of our Lord in the Eucharist. They were accused of cannibalism. I do not find anyone who you would considered CoC dying for their faith. This is on of the main reasons there are many others.

3.) Eternal consequences? I leave that to God and pray for eveyones salvation.

4.) It matters because God wants us united in His Church. He gave us His Church to help us and guide us in His ways so we can serve Him and others in Truth. When we take full advantage of all that Christ has left us (the Sacraments) in His Church through the Holy Spirit, it will help us attain everlasting life.
 
I believe I know the CoC well. My husband belongs to the CoC and I attend Church with him every Sunday and he goes to Mass with me. We’ve been doing it for 15 years. Most everyone there are wonderful genuine people. I have a lot of respect for them and their commitment to God. So my responses are not an attack on the CoC; just standing up for my Faith. I will pray for us all to be united as Christ desires.

Answers to your questions:

1 and 2). I know the Catholic Church is the true Church and not the Church you refer to as the Church of Christ because of the Eucharist. The bible teaches us of the true presence of Christ, yet the CoC believes this is only symbolic. Also when I read any history on the early Church I find many Catholics dying for their faith and their belief in consuming the body of our Lord in the Eucharist. They were accused of cannibalism. I do not find anyone who you would considered CoC dying for their faith. This is on of the main reasons there are many others.

3.) Eternal consequences? I leave that to God and pray for eveyones salvation.

4.) It matters because God wants us united in His Church. He gave us His Church to help us and guide us in His ways so we can serve Him and others in Truth. When we take full advantage of all that Christ has left us (the Sacraments) in His Church through the Holy Spirit, it will help us attain everlasting life.
10,

You prove my point in the prior post…Your number one reason…
Now if these guys were smart they would start a church where the central focus was bread and wine based on what the OHCAC has done. It seems to hold things together.
🙂
 
Post 1 of 3

Several responders have asked me to provide reasons in support of my theological convictions. And thus the next several posts will address why I am a member of the Church of Christ. However, before I do so, I feel it best to preface my rejoinder with a series of rules—rules that I feel most of my Catholic and Eastern Orthodox brethren ignore.
  1. When reading patristic literature, we must remember that earlier writers take precedence over later ones. In other words, “Those closest in time were in a better position to testify to apostolic examples than later witnesses. That should be obvious, even if this consideration is often ignored” (Everett Ferguson).
Many who have responded to my posts cite late quotes from the ECF’s that support what Catholics call doctrinal development. They then read these later writers and their beliefs back into the early period and assume that things have been this way from the beginning. One simply cannot do this.
  1. “If something existed in the first century church, there should be some trace of it later. Conversely, if something is not found in the early centuries, it may be questioned whether it was in the NT, or one must provide a very good explanation for it being totally lost so soon. In the same way, what existed later, even if false, must be derivable from the NT” (Everett Ferguson).
  2. Similar to people in the New Testament, Christians in later centuries often made mistakes. Those who deviated from apostolic teaching were corrected by the apostolic word. We may likewise have to correct the early church by that same apostolic word (paraphrase of E. Ferguson).
  3. There is danger in making tradition a practical authority on par with Scripture.
I have noticed that whenever individuals take Scripture and something else as functionally normative (the and can be reason, experience, etc), the and often supersedes the authority of Scripture. “Some churches accept on principle scripture as well as tradition as normative. They are often as arbitrary in what they accept from tradition as others are about what they select out of scripture to follow. To listen attentively to the early Christ development as a testimony to the meaning of the Bible is not the same as making that development normative for present Christian practice” (Ferguson).
  1. There is a danger in reading later developments back into the NT period
“The church’s early history is to aid, not determine the interpretation of the NT. If something is not in the NT, than early Christian literature cannot put it there, nor can it interpret something not there” (Ferguson).
  1. There is a danger in overgeneralization
Ferguson defines overgeneralization as “Taking an isolated or individual view out of early Christian writings, or out of the historical evidence in general, and considering that the general position.”

He goes on to say:

“Of course a single writer or source may preserve the correct understanding against the majority position. To avoid the mistake of overgeneralization, there must be a breadth of knowledge in the sources. It is more likely for an individual writer or the church in a certain region to go astray, than for such a thing to happen in a broader territory. Of course given enough time, this consideration loses its force, because ideas spread. It is important to determine if there is a uniform testimony of many witnesses so as to establish a definite tradition of teaching. The earlier and more extensive such a consensus can be established, the stronger and more persuasive it becomes as traceable to earliest Christian times or as resting on something other than an individual’s innovation” (Ferguson).

With these rules in mind, I will now proceed to discuss how my reading of the bible and ECF’s led me to believe what I do about the Churches of Christ. My posts will address baptism (the proper mode and recipient as well as why I reject infant baptism as having no continuity with the New Testament and earliest non-canonical literature), and Acapella worship (why I believe the NT and ECF’s support unaccompanied singing in worship). I can also provide why I believe what I do about church polity (why I feel that a plurality of elders in each church, and not a bishop governed presbytery, is the proper method of church leadership), as well as why I do not hold to a transubstantial view of the Eucharist. Let me know if I need to do this.
 
Post 2 of 3

As far as the usage of baptism, I don’t think any here would disagree that the traditionally meaning is to dip, immerse, or plunge. In the Greek, the word is distinct from both pouring and sprinkling. As I’ve indicated earlier, Romans 6 likens baptism to a burial, and John immersed “at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water” (John 3:23).

Secular Greek literature attests to a dipping:

Homer:

“And as when a smith dips [Bapte] a great axe or adze in cold water to temper it” (Odyssey 9.392)

Euripides:

“Old servant, Take a vessel, dip [Bapsas] in sea water, and bring here” (Hecuba 610)

“For a ship too, if its sheet is too vigorously tightened, goes under [Ebapsen] (Orestes 707).

Lucian of Samosata:

“The rest were ducking their heads like dolphins in the cold plunge [puchrobaphes] (Lexiphanes 5).

Both Mark 1:10 and Mt. 3:16 present Jesus as coming up out of a river, “something unnecessary for any action other than an immersion” (Ferguson).

One responder suggested that the promise “unto your children” qualified as proof of infant baptism. In this context, all who were immersed heard the word of the Lord (2:41) and could repent (2:38); the sons and daughters (2:17) were old enough to prophesy (Ferguson)

Baptism in the second century

Didache


The Didache indicates that recipients of baptism were old enough to fast, receive instruction, and partake of the Eucharist (9-10).

Barnabas:

“That we go down into the water full of sins and uncleanness, and we come up bearing as fruit in our heart reverence and having hope in Jesus and our spirit…”

Justin Martyr:

“We shall explain in what way we dedicated ourselves to God and were made new through Christ, lest by omitting this we may seem to act deceptively in our explanation. As many as are persuaded and believe that the things said and taught by us are true and promise to be able to live accordingly are taught while fasting to pray and ask God for the forgiveness of past sins, while we pray and fast together with them. Then they are led by us to where there is water, and in the manner of the regeneration by which we ourselves were regenerated they are regenerated. For at that time they are washed in the water in the name of God the Master and Father of all, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit…”

And we have learned from the apostles the reason for this practice. Since at our first birth we have been born without knowledge or choice from the moist seed at the union of our parents with each other and have existed in bad habits and evil conduct, in order that we might not remain children of ignorance and necessity but become children of choice and knowledge and might obtain the forgiveness of sins committed in the past, there is called in the water upon the one who chooses to be regenerated and who repents of sins the name of God the Master and Father of all…

The bath is called illumination, since those who learn these things are illuminated in their understanding. And the person who is illuminated is washed…

After we thus wash the person who has been persuaded and who has given consent, we lead this one to where those called brothers and sisters have gathered together to make fervent prayers in common on behalf of themselves and of the one who has been illuminated and of all others everywhere. We pray that having learned the truth we may be accounted worthy and through our deeds be found good citizens… (Apology 61.1-13; 65.1)

For Justin, baptism was for those who believe and are persuaded; for those who chose to be regenerated of their past sins. “The account, therefore, places a strong emphasis on the voluntary acceptance of baptism and the exercise of free will by the candidate. The account clearly describes baptism of persons of responsible age” (Ferguson)

Irenaeus:

Irenaues seems to present a mixed picture. On the one hand, faith is a prerequisite to being saved:

“Human beings can be saved in no other way…except by believing” in him who was crucified and gives life to the dead” (Against Heresies 4.2.7, slight paraphrase from Everett Ferguson). A confession of faith seems to be involved in the ceremony: “the one who in himself holds unwaveringly to the rule of truth that he received through baptism” (Against Heresies 1.9.4)

But perhaps the most pertinent quote comes from Against Heresies 2.22.4:

“He sanctified every age of life by having the like age in himself. For he came to save all be means of himself, all (I say) who by him are born again [renascuntur] to God—infants, children, boys, youths, and the old. He therefore lived through every age, made an infant for infants and sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying these by having this age and accomplishing for them at the same time an example of piety, righteousness, and submission; a youth for youths, becoming an example for youths and sanctifying them to the Lord. So, also, an older person for those who are older so that he might be a perfect teacher for all….”

I think it’s important to quote Ferguson in entirety here:

“This may be the earliest reference to infant baptism. Before rushing to accept a reference to infant baptism here, we should be cautious. For one thing, the verb used, remascor (“reborn”), is different from regenero (“to regenerate”), the verbe related to regeneration in the passage on baptism. But if we accept the two words as conceptually the same, there is another consideration. Besides its reference to baptism, regeneration is used by Irenaeus for Jesus’ work of renewal and rejuvenation effected by his birth and resurrection without any reference to baptism. That could be the case here. And such a reference better fits the context of recapitulation in which this passage occurs. The coming of Jesus brought a second beginning to the whole human race. He sanctified every age of life. Accepting his renovation by being baptized is another matter and falls outside the purview of this passage” Ferguson, 308).

Furthermore, in other passages Ireaneaus notes the innocence of children:

The saved are “those who believed in God and continued in his love….and innocent children, who have had no sense of evil.” “Who are they that are saved now and receive eternal life? Are they not those who loved God, believed his promises, and have become ‘in malice as little children’ ” (Against Heresies 4.28.3).

Clement of Alexandria likens baptism to the sinking of a ship, indicating that the mode of baptism was by immersion (see Who Is the Rich Man that is Saved? 34).

For Clement also, faith and repentance are precedents to baptism :

“Instruction leads to faith, and faith together with baptism is trained by the Holy Spirit, since faith is the one universal salvation of humanity” (Instructor 1.6.30.2).

After quoting both Galatians 3:23-28 and 1 Corinthians 12:13, Clement writes:

“There follows of necessity to the one who has been reminded of better things repentance for the worse things….In the same manner we ourselves, having repented of our sins, having renounced our faults, and being purified in baptism run back to the eternal light, children to their Father” (Instructor 1.6.32.1).

Clement also notes that “the sins committed before coming to faith are forgiven before the Lord in order that they may be as if they had not been done” (Miscellanies 4.24.153.3).
“An adequate cleansing for a person is genuine and sure repentance” (Miscellanies 4.22.143.1).
 
Post 2 of 3 cont.

The Third Century

Tertullian


For Tertullain, faith and repentance preceded baptism:

“Repentance comes first, and remission follows” (Baptism 10.6).

Baptismal washing is a sealing of faith, which faith is begun and commended by the faith of repentance. We are not washed in order that we may cease sinning, but because we have ceased, since in heart we have been bathed already…. (On Repentance 4-6).

“And so it is becoming that learners desire baptism, but do not hastily receive it” (On Repentance 6.16-17).

“The sacrament of our water by which the sins of our former blindness are washed away and we are set at liberty unto life eternal (On Baptism 1.1).

Immersion is implied

“After we come up from the washing” (Baptism 7.1).

See also On Prayer 13, in which he references a washing of the whole body.

Cyprian

Recipient seems be those of responsible age:

“By the help of the water of new birth, the stain of former years was washed away, and a light from above, serene and pure, was infused into my reconciled heart…” (To Donatus).

“All who arrive at the divine bath by the sanctification of baptism, put off the old self by the grace of the saving laver, and, renewed by the Holy Spirit from the filth of the old contagion, are purged by a second birth” (Dress of Virgins 23).

My assessment of household baptisms in Acts:

All of the evidences of household baptisms in the New Testament indicate that the entire family had the capacity to believe in the Lord Jesus, and to accept him by faith:
  1. John 4:53- "Then the father realized that this was the exact time at which Jesus had said to him, “Your son will live.” So he and ALL his household BELIEVED.
  2. Acts 10:44-46- “While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on ALL who HEARD THE MESSAGE…For they heard them SPEAKING IN TONGUES and PRAISING GOD. Then Peter said, Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water. They have RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT, just as we have.”
  3. Acts 16:29-They replied, Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household. Then they SPOKE the word of the Lord to HIM AND TO ALL THE OTHERS IN THE HOUSE. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized…he was filled with joy because he had come to BELIEVE in God—he and his WHOLE FAMILY.
  4. Acts 18:8- “Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his ENTIRE HOUSEHOLD BELIEVED in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who HEARD him believed and were baptized.”
All of these evidences of households in the New Testament used by Catholics to show that infant baptism is apostolic fail, simply upon examining the text. They ALL HEARD, THEY ALL BELIEVED, THEY ALL RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT, SPOKE IN TONGUES, PRAISED GOD, ETC. Sheer reason indicates that the recipients were not infants who had no capacity to accept the Lord Jesus.

Origin and Development of Infant baptism

In one of my former quotes, I made reference to Tertullian, who opposed the practice. Right now I would like to address a few quotes typically used of those who support infant baptism, namely Justin Martyr’s Apology 15.6 and the Martyrdom of Polycarp 9.3.

In the former reference, Justin speaks of those who have been “disciples from childhood.” But this reference says nothing about the age of baptism. This passage does not prove or disprove infant baptism.

The latter reference records Polycarp saying that he served Christ for 86 years. But this passage certainly could have been spoken without dating his baptism. The Life of Polycarp, perhaps a legendary source, purports that the later bishop of Smyrna was purchased as a slave boy by a Christian woman. If the quote is indeed true, we know that Polycarp was not baptized as an infant. Furthermore, infant baptism seems to run contrary to Polycarp’s line of thinking: “He said they could not otherwise receive the impression of the seal which is given by baptism” until their hearts were softened by hearing Scripture and its interpretation (Life of Polycarp 19, slight paraphrase by Ferguson).

The Apostolic Tradition records that small children were baptized (21.4-5), and Origen states that infants are baptized because “No man is clean of stain, not even if his life upon the earth had lasted but a single day” Through the mystery of baptism, the stains of birth are put aside. For this reason, even small children are baptized” (Homilies on Luke 14.5 on Luke 2:22; See also Homily on Leviticus 8.3.5, and Commentary on Romans 5.9.11 on Rom. 6:5-6).

Many consider Origen to be a proponent of original sin. However, in the wider context of his Homilies, Origen “contrasts sin (of which Jesus had none) and stain and explains that Jesus need the purification recoded in Luke 2:22 because of the stain involved in his taking a human body for human salvation” Ferguson, (see Homilies on Luke 14.3)

“Every soul that has been clothed with a human body has its own stain.”

In light of this, we recognize that Origen reference to stain is taken from the Old Testament law and is not a precursor to original sin.

**Cyprian **was a proponent of infant baptism (Letters 64 [58].5). However, the following inscriptions indicate that infant baptism was still at this point far from universal.

Evidence from inscriptions

“Many of the inscriptions mentions the age of the deceased and/or the date of death…Where both items of information occur, there is a close correlation between the time of baptism and the time of death” (Ferguson).

Inscription from A.D. 268:

“Pastor, Titiana, Marciana, and Chreste made this for Marcianus, a well-deserving son in Christ the Lord. He lived twelve years, two months, and….days. He receive grace on September 20 when the consuls were Marinianus and Paternus the second time. He gave up his soul on September 21. May you live among the saints in eternity” (ILCV 3315).

The boy was not baptized until the age of 12.

Third century inscriptions (from catacomb of Priscilla)

“Sweet Tyche lived on year, ten months, fifteen days. Received grace on the eighty day before the Kalends….Gave up (her soul) on the same day” (ILCV 1531).

“Irene, who lived with her parents eleven months and six days, received (grace) on April 7 and gave up here soul on April 13” (ILCV 1532).

Latin inscriptions

“Postumius Eutention, a believer, who obtained holy grace the day before his birthday at a very late hour and died. He lived six years and was buried on the eleventh of July on the day of Jupiter on which he was born. His soul is with the saints in peace…” (ILCV 1524, Rome, early fourth century).

"Here is laid Fortunia, who lived more or less four years. The parents set this up for their dearest daughter. She obtained grace on July 27…and died on July 25. Gratian for the second time and Probus were the consuls” (ILCV 1525, Capua, A.D. 371).

What we learn from inscriptions
  1. No common age for administering baptism
  2. It was more common not to baptize infants immediately after birth. In fact, the inscriptions show the opposite.
  3. Infants were only baptized when it was thought they were going to die
4.“We cannot give the name of anyone before the fourth century not in an emergency situation who was baptized as an infant” (Searle, “Infant Baptism Reconsidered,” p. 367).

Believer’s Baptism in Christian families

Ephraem of Syria, Basil of Caesarea, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory of Nazianzus, John Chrysostom, Ambrose, Jerome, Rufinus, Paulinus of Nola, and Augustine were all baptized by choice at responsible age. Interesting is that Gregory of Nazianzus speaks of his upbringing by pious parents (his father was a bishop), but he doesn’t speak for or against the practice of infant baptism. Basil the Great and Gregory of Nyssa traced their ancestry to an early convert of Gregory the Wonderworker, but their parents did not see the necessity of baptizing them in childhood.

Summary
  1. “There is general agreement that there is no firm evidence for infant baptism before the latter part of the second century. The fact does not mean that it did not occur, but it does mean that supporters of the practice have a considerable chronological gap to account for” (Ferguson).
  2. It is plausible that emergency baptism became the basis for the eventual normalization of infant baptism.
  3. Questions continued to be raised about infant baptism well into the fifth century.
  4. Infant baptism did not become the normative practice until the fifth and sixth centuries, after Augustine’s victory over the Pelagians.
  5. Full immersion was the normative action. Exceptions occurred for lack of water and sickbed baptisms.
 
Post 3 of 3

There is no explicit reference to instrumental worship in the New Testament. Indeed, the opposite seems to be the case, especially from the litany of quotes I present a bit later. The NT’s usage of psallo “indicates a purely vocal reference in the New Testament (E. Ferguson).

Eph 5:19b:

“Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Col. 3:16:

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.”

Second century

In the second century, Clement of Alexandria continues to use psallo as singing with instrumental accompaniment: “The one instrument of peace, the Word alone by which we honour God, is what we employ. We no longer employ the ancient psaltery, and trumpet, and timbrel, and flute, which those expert in war contemners of the fear of God were wont to make use of also in the choruses at their festive assemblies; that by such strains they might raise their dejected minds” (42,3).

Third century

Methodius (bishop of Olympus in Lycia) continues the traditional usage. “Christ sings [psallei] these praises” (Banquet VII.1). The responsive hymn was then sang by Thecla (XI.2)

Fourth century

**Eusebius **describes Egyptian martyrs under persecution (by Diocletian) when he writes:

“They received the final sentence of death with joy and laughter and gladness so that they sang [psallein] and sent up hymns and thanksgiving to the God of the universe until they drew their last breath” (Church History VIII.ix.5).

**Athanasius **(bishop of Alexandria) uses psallo when discoursing on which psalm is to be sung on certain occasions:

“Those who do not read (aloud) the sacred songs in this manner do not sing [psallousi] with understanding ….But those singing [psallontes] in the above described manner, so as to present the melody of the words from the rhythm of the soul and the harmony with the Spirit, these sing [psallousi] with the tongue but make melody [psallontes] with the mind, and they profit greatly not only themselves but those who wish to hear them” (Epistle to Marcellinus 29).

**Cyril of Jerusalem **(mid fourth century)

“And again, let the young women sit together in like manner, either singing [psallon] or reading quietly, so that their lips speak, but others’ ears do not hear the sound: ‘for I permit not a woman to speak in the church’ ” (Procatechesis 14, PG 33:356b).

Apostolic Constitutions

“If you stay at home, read the books of the Law, of the Kings, with the Prophets; sing [psallo] the hymns of David; and study diligently the Gospel” (I.v.2).

Fifth century

Isidore of Pelusium


“You have a psalm, you have prophecy, evangelical commandments, the preaching of the apostles. Let the tongue sing (psalleto), let the mind interpret the meaning of the words, in order that you may sing with the spirit and sing with the mind also.” (Homily on Psalm 28).

Pertinent quotes

Catholic Encyclopedia:


“Although Josephus tells of the wonderful effects produced in the Temple by the use of instruments, the first Christians were of too spiritual a fibre to substitute lifeless instruments for or to use them to accompany the human voice. Clement of Alexandria severely condemns the use of instruments even at Christian banquets. St. Chrysostum sharply contrasts the customs of the Christians when they had full freedom with those of the Jews of the Old Testament.” (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 10, pg. 648-652.)

“For almost a thousand years Gregorian chant, without any instrumental or harmonic addition was the only music used in connection with the liturgy. The organ, in its primitive and rude form, was the first, and for a long time the sole, instrument used to accompany the chant…. The church has never encouraged and at most only tolerated the use of instruments. She enjoins in the ‘Caeremonials Episcoporum’, - that permission for their use should first be obtained from the ordinary. She holds up as her ideal the unaccompanied chant, and polyphonic, a-capella style. The Sistene Chapel has not even an organ.”" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 10, pg. 657-688.)

Aquinas:

“Our church does not use musical instruments, as harps and psalteries, to praise God withal, that she may not seem to Judaize.” (Thomas Aquinas, Bingham’s Antiquities, Vol. 3, page 137)

Chrysostom:

“David formerly sang songs, also today we sing hymns. He had a lyre with lifeless strings, the church has a lyre with living strings. Our tongues are the strings of the lyre with a different tone indeed but much more in accordance with piety. Here there is no need for the cithara, or for stretched strings, or for the plectrum, or for art, or for any instrument; but, if you like, you may yourself become a cithara, mortifying the members of the flesh and making a full harmony of mind and body. For when the flesh no longer lusts against the Spirit, but has submitted to its orders and has been led at length into the best and most admirable path, then will you create a spiritual melody.” (Chrysostom, 347-407, Exposition of Psalms 41, (381-398 A.D.) Source Readings in Music History, ed. O. Strunk, W. W. Norton and Co.: New York, 1950, pg. 70.)

Eusebius:

“Of old at the time those of the circumcision were worshipping with symbols and types it was not inappropriate to send up hymns to God with the psalterion and cithara and to do this on Sabbath days… We render our hymn with a living psalterion and a living cithara with spiritual songs. The unison voices of Christians would be more acceptable to God than any musical instrument. Accordingly in all the churches of God, united in soul and attitude, with one mind and in agreement of faith and piety we send up a unison melody in the words of the Psalms.” (commentary on Psalms 91:2-3)

More modern Catholic sources

J. Gelineau
(Voices and Instruments in Christian Worship)

“Pius X, before discussing instrumental music, recalls that ‘the music proper to the Church is purely vocal music” (148).

“Nevertheless, the abundance and clearness of the te3xts in which the Fathers of the Church have discussed the question can leave us in no doubt about the content and firmness of their teaching: musical instruments are to be excluded from the worship of the New Alliance” (150f).

“Never can vocal or spiritual praise of the Word of God be supplied or supplanted, in worship in spirit and in truth, by the sound of musical instruments alone” (151f).
“The fundamental principle: vocal praise alone is essential to Christian worship. Instruments are only accessory” (155f).

**K.G. Fellerer **(History of Catholic Church Music pg. 13)

“The worship in spirit (Jn. 4:23), with its implied rejection of a purely esthetic enjoyment of music, was the basis for the general repudiation of instrumental music, customary in pagan worship….”

"The basis of Christian ecclesiastical music was its vocal character. It was the prayer of the community sung by the people”

 
Post 3 of 3 cont.

One individual asked for quotes from both Ignatius and Jerome about worship. I was able to locate one from Ignatius:

“For your deservedly famous presbytery, worthy of God, is attuned to the bishop as strings to a kithara. Therefore by your concord and harmonious love Jesus Christ is being sung. Now all of you together become a choir so that being harmoniously in concord and receiving the key note from God in unison you may sing with one voice through Jesus Christ to the Father” (Ephesians 4).

Seems as if Ignatius is an advocate of non-instrumental worship as well.

Summary of findings
  1. The NT indicates Acapella worship in the early church.
  2. There are no references to instrumental worship in the early church history, and a strong case against using instruments in the worship assembly (I provide a few quotations below)
**Theodoret **(bishop of Cyrhhus in Syria)

“It is not simple singing that belongs to the childish state, but singing with lifeless instruments, with dancing, and with clappers. Hence the use of such instruments and the others that belong to the childish state is excluded from the singing in the churches, and simple singing is left. For it awakens the soul to a fervent desire for that which is described in the songs, it quiets the passions that arise from the flesh, it removes the evil thoughts that are implanted in us by invisible foes, it waters the soul to make it fruitful in the good things of God, it makes the soldiers of piety strong to endure hardships…”

**Niceta **(bishop of Remesiana)

“It is time to turn to the NT to confirm what is said in the Old, and, particularly, to point out that the office of psalmody is not to be considered abolished merely because many other observances of the Old Law have fallen into desuetude. Only the corporal institutions have been rejected, like circumcision, the Sabbath, sacrifices, discrimination in foods. So, too, the trumpets, harps, cymbals and timbrels. For the sound of these we now have a better substitute in the music from the mouths of men. The daily ablutions, the new-moon observances, the careful inspection of leprosy are completely past and gone, along with whatever else was necessary only for a time—as it were, for children. Of course, what was spiritual in the OT, for example, faith, piety, prayer, fasting, patience, chastity, psalm-singing—all this has been increased in the NT rather than diminished.”
  1. The first instrument introduced to the worship context was the organ (some sources suggest as late as the 10the century). This introduction did not find its way into the Eastern churches.
  2. “It may not appear to be true today, but against the whole sweep of Christian history a cappella music is the truly ecumenical ground to occupy” (Ferguson).
  3. “…only a capella music in the public worship of the church rests on good Biblical, historical, and theological grounds” (Ferguson).
 
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