A couple of announcements at the end of Mass

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imroc

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  1. Included the welcoming of a new deacon to the parish 🙂 . The Father _____ remarks that, “we all look forward to the day when women will also be ordained as such”. :confused:
  2. Then I look at our bulletin after Mass. It reads, “Are you an organ tissue donor? Each year, thousands of people die while waiting for the organ or tissue transplant needed to save their lives. Every 18 minutes, another name is added to the list of Americans waiting for life-saving transplants. Many of these lives could be saved if more people became organ and tissue donors. As a donor, you could save or improve the quality of life for more than 50 others who suffer from organ failure, bone defects, burns or blindness…”
Question to #2) What is the Church’s position on organ donation? I though I remember something about us not donating our organs or something. But I don’t want to be a hypocrite and accept an organ if I’m dying. I’m really in need of guidance here.
  1. Also, can an “ex-nun” and “ex-priest” be married in a catholic church after leaving their ordination???
 
A priest can not get married until he is laisized. If he does he is automatically excommunicated.

I think the Church allows transplaints. There is nothing wrong with a transplant.
 
imroc said:
1) Included the welcoming of a new deacon to the parish 🙂 . The Father _____ remarks that, “we all look forward to the day when women will also be ordained as such”. :confused:
  1. Then I look at our bulletin after Mass. It reads, “Are you an organ tissue donor? Each year, thousands of people die while waiting for the organ or tissue transplant needed to save their lives. Every 18 minutes, another name is added to the list of Americans waiting for life-saving transplants. Many of these lives could be saved if more people became organ and tissue donors. As a donor, you could save or improve the quality of life for more than 50 others who suffer from organ failure, bone defects, burns or blindness…”
Question to #2) What is the Church’s position on organ donation? I though I remember something about us not donating our organs or something. But I don’t want to be a hypocrite and accept an organ if I’m dying. I’m really in need of guidance here.
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On #1: Talk to the priest and remind him that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis has ruled out all possibility of females being ordained and has been ruled infallibly defined. If he continues in this, report him to the Bishop. This has been discussed in length at:
MEN ONLY: Should women be ordained?
On #2: I do not believe it is again Church teachings to donate organs. In my opinion, it is a final act of charity.

PF
 
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WanderAimlessly:
On #1: Talk to the priest and remind him that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis has ruled out all possibility of females being ordained and has been ruled infallibly defined. If he continues in this, report him to the Bishop. This has been discussed in length at:
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WanderAimlessly has correctly stated that the church has ruled infallibly that females can not be ordained. However, I would contact the local bishop anyway and ask for clarification of the priest’s statement explaining that you were under the impression that the church has infallibly ruled that females can not be ordained.

This type of thing should not be treated lightly. Either he is ignorant of Church teaching – which is not good because who knows what else he might be ignorant of and the Bishop should be made aware of that … OR … he is aware of church teaching and intentionally following the beat of a different drummer. In which case, the Bishop should also be made aware of it.​
 
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jimmy:
A priest can not get married until he is laisized. If he does he is automatically excommunicated.

I think the Church allows transplaints. There is nothing wrong with a transplant.
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Ok. So, it’s alright if his status has been changed to “lay”. What concerns for the particular parish are there if both this ex-nun and ex-priest, who are married to each other, when both are teaching and working for the parish? At first I didn’t see any problems, but after comitting myself to God and Our Church and reading quite a bit, I’ve noticed that alot of things in the Church seem to be in contradiction of what the Church believes. I hear various topics like:
  1. downplaying the Church’s teaching on contraception
  2. ordination for women
  3. increase of layperson’s activities in the Church, nearly disregarding the role of a priest
  4. that the Church is just one small part of THE CHURCH of God (meaning that Catholicism is just a fraction of Christ’s real church)
  5. that the disappearance of Christ from our Crucifixe’s should increase
  6. the increase of persons becoming more involved in politics
  7. marriage status of priests
These are just a few things that come to mind right now. But I’m sure I could come up with many many more.
 
I found some answers to my “donor” question, but thanks! Here’s a couple:

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0404ltrs.asp
‘Brain Death’ Is a Tricky Concept

I noticed in your “Quick Questions” column way back in your May-June 2003 issue a question concerning organ transplants and whether it is moral. I agree with your answer that it is, but wonder if you realized that in order to do a heart or liver transplant, the donor’s heart must still be beating because those organs deteriorate so quickly.

Organ donation is a charitable act, but can we trust all doctors to be ethical?

About ten years ago we were at a Human Life International conference and one of the speakers was a doctor who spoke on the subject of transplants. He warned us that there are thirty-two different definitions of “brain death” in this country, and the attending physician can accept any one of these to declare someone brain dead. He said he saw people fully recover after being declared brain dead.

Brain death does not mean the person is dead; it simply means that brain activity has slowed or stopped. Their heart can still be beating. The danger is that when someone is declared brain dead, the doctor in charge can call for the organ removal team, and they can then harvest the organs.

This doctor said he talked to nurses who would no longer help with organ harvesting because sometimes when they were removing the heart of a patient and started cutting into the chest, the donor would grab the nurse’s arm tightly as if in pain. The doctor would say that that was only a reflex or something like that.

I was glad I knew about this six years ago. Our oldest son was in a bad accident that resulted in severe brain trauma, and one doctor gave him zero chance of survival. They wanted us to sign an organ donation sheet, but we declined, and instead told them in writing to do everything in their power to save him. We were afraid that if we signed the sheet, that would allow them to harvest his organs, and that they wouldn’t try as hard to revive him.

Our son did survive. He’s walking, talking, working, and driving, although with some disabilities. But he’s not a “vegetable,” as some doctors said he would be.

***Years ago everyone knew when someone was dead: There was no pulse, no breathing, etc. But with the new brain death definitions, we now have something quite dangerous and deliberate on our hands. ***

***Marge Will ***
via the Internet
 
catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305qq.asp

Q: What is the Church’s view on organ transplants? I feel that they are wrong. If God calls someone, who are we to stop the death process?

A: By that logic, any life-preserving medication or intervention would be wrong. Removing an inflamed appendix or administering CPR are just as much intervening in a process that would lead to death as transplanting a heart. Even yanking someone out of the path of an oncoming bus could be interpreted as saving someone who was being called by God.

Not only does the Church accept the transplanting of human organs, it recognizes the donation of organs and blood to those in need as acts of charity and therefore commendable. Needless to say, such donations must not in the slightest way cause the death of the donor.
 
From what I remember, the only organs that can not be transplanted are the brain (of course), and sexual organs.
 
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imroc:
  1. Included the welcoming of a new deacon to the parish 🙂 . The Father _____ remarks that, “we all look forward to the day when women will also be ordained as such”. :confused:
Since this was after and not during the Mass I wonder why no one stood up and corrected him?
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imroc:
  1. Then I look at our bulletin after Mass. It reads, “Are you an organ tissue donor? Each year, thousands of people die while waiting for the organ or tissue transplant needed to save their lives. Every 18 minutes, another name is added to the list of Americans waiting for life-saving transplants. Many of these lives could be saved if more people became organ and tissue donors. As a donor, you could save or improve the quality of life for more than 50 others who suffer from organ failure, bone defects, burns or blindness…”
Question to #2) What is the Church’s position on organ donation? I though I remember something about us not donating our organs or something. But I don’t want to be a hypocrite and accept an organ if I’m dying. I’m really in need of guidance here.
Click to expand...
Organ donation is a good thing that helps preserve life. What the Church has a problem with is keeping someone on life support only for the purpose of harvesting organs.
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imroc:
  1. Also, can an “ex-nun” and “ex-priest” be married in a catholic church after leaving their ordination???
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Yes if they receive permission from the Pope. They can never function as a priest or nun again. Even as a Catechist on in any official position. Except that a priest can celebrate the Sacraments of Anointing of the Sick, and Reconciliation in an emergency for a dying person.
 
imroc said:
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3) Also, can an “ex-nun” and “ex-priest” be married in a catholic church after leaving their ordination???
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nuns are not ordained, only priests, bishops and deacons are ordained. Nuns make either vows or professions, either conditional or permanent. If either a nun or priest abandons their vocation through the approved canonical process they are free to marry. If they ignore the canonical process, they are considered still bound by their vows and are not free to marry. They would be in the same situation as a divorced Catholic who has not received an annulment, definitely not free to marry.

If your deacon professed a hope that women will be ordained, he is espousing and publicly teaching heresy and should be reported to the bishop because either the diaconate formation program or seminary program is at fault.
 
imroc said:
1) Included the welcoming of a new deacon to the parish 🙂 . The Father _____ remarks that, “we all look forward to the day when women will also be ordained as such”. :confused:
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The Church has yet to make a pronouncement on the issue of the future possibility of ordination of women to the permanent diaconate.

So faithful Catholics are free to hold either side of this issue.
 
The first question to be answered by the Church is whether deaconesses, whose existence is unquestioned, were truly ordained according to the sense of cc. 1008 and 1009. If the answer is in the affirmative then, and only then, is the above assertion of CIOWPD tenable. And, in my opinion, an affirmative answer would have to rest upon far more evidence than was cited by CIOWPD.
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If the answer to the historical question is negative, one must still deal with the question as to whether a baptized woman could validly receive diaconal ordination. That answer, like the answer to the question as to whether women can be ordained to the priesthood, would have to come from the highest level of ecclesiastical authority. Since c. 1024 repeats the language of c. 968 of the 1917 Code, I have checked all the commentaries on the earlier code (Abbo-Hannan, Augustine, Bouscaren-Ellis, Gasparri and Woywood) which we have in the Foundation’s library and all say essentially the same thing. The following example is typical:
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<The two invalidating disqualifications arising from the subject himself are thus stated to be lack of baptism of water and lack of male sex. Ecclesiastical tradition, interpreting divine law, is witness that the latter excludes women from the diaconate and higher orders; as to the lower orders, the incapacity of women arises from ecclesiastical law.> (John J. Abbo and Jerome D. Hannan, The Sacred Canons, B. Herder Book Co., St. Louis, 1952,Vol.II,p.93)
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While I would not claim that the opinions of learned commentators are declarations of the teaching Church, I cannot see how they can be simply brushed aside, as CIOWPD appears to do. If the Church does admit women to diaconal ordination, it seems to me that this action—given the definition of the sacrament of orders we see in c. 100—would give rise to the formidable challenge of performing the difficult mental gymnastics involved in asserting that women can validly be admitted to one grade of orders while at the same time reaffirming the infallible teaching of the Church that they cannot be admitted to the others.
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ewtn.com/library/CANONLAW/WOMENDEA.HTM
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WanderAimlessly:
On #1: Talk to the priest and remind him that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis has ruled out all possibility of females being ordained and has been ruled infallibly defined. .

PF
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The priest will probably respond that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis actually only dealt with Presbyterial Ordinations.
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer **priestly ordination ** on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.
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Catholic2003:
The Church has yet to make a pronouncement on the issue of the future possibility of ordination of women to the permanent diaconate.

So faithful Catholics are free to hold either side of this issue.
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Sort of.

Even though O.S. only specifically mentioned presbyterial Ordination, that document was not an infallible document of itself, but rather restated already infallible teachings of the Ordinary Magisterium.

The pronouncement on female diaconal ordinations is also such a infallible teaching, but was just not dealt with in O.S.
 
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Brendan:
The pronouncement on female diaconal ordinations is also such a infallible teaching, but was just not dealt with in O.S.
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What pronouncement?

There is an infallible teaching that women can never be ordained to the priesthood.

There is no teaching at all, either fallible or infallible, on whether women could be ordained to the permanent diaconate in the future.

Faithful Catholics can not dissent from either fallible or infallible teachings.
 
IMHO there are many, many more opinions that Ordinato Sacerdotalis was NOT an infallible teaching - just Google “Ordinato Sacerdotalis” and infallible and see what you get.

I asked one of our Archdiocese people, who said it was not. I could also not find a single Vatican reference saying it is infallible.
 
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awalt:
IMHO there are many, many more opinions that Ordinato Sacerdotalis was NOT an infallible teaching - just Google “Ordinato Sacerdotalis” and infallible and see what you get.

I asked one of our Archdiocese people, who said it was not. I could also not find a single Vatican reference saying it is infallible.
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ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS: AN EXERCISE OF INFALLIBILITY
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…The
fact is that no document can close a question for someone who is in
rebellion against legitimate authority. The claim about many questions that
they are really open because there had been no ex cathedra statement on
them has been intellectually dishonest all along. I don’t mean that there
aren’t many open questions in Catholic life. But a great many questions
have been settled without ex cathedra pronouncements, and only willful
obscurantism prevents the admission of this fact.
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Those who love Truth and love the Church will have little trouble grasping
these elementary points. Those who don’t, will raise a thousand objections
at every turn. But consider: If the Pope were to state that his teaching
was infallible, would this settle the question? What if he wasn’t speaking
infallibly when he said his teaching was infallible? There is no end to
such questions, except the end provided by Faith and common sense.…http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/ORDIN.TXT
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The Magisterium has explicitly stated that the teaching against women priests is infallible. See this thread for a lengthy discussion. In particular, see this post.

Edited to add: Whether a teaching is infallible or not really doesn’t matter as far as dissent is concerned.
 
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