A couple of Questions on Greek Catholics

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Stephentlig

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Is it true that Greek Catholic priests can Marry?

Becoming eastern Catholic isnt all about registering with the parish and becoming Greek Catholic is it? :confused: I mean once a person is a Catholic they dont have to label themselves anything other than ‘‘Catholic’’ when attending Eastern rite mass on a regular basis right?

Sorry if my questions seem boring and childish, but then again I consider myself both boring and childish lol :o

Finally is there a link one can send me to to help me learn more about Greek Catholicism?

Pax Christi
Stephen <3
 
Christ is Risen!
Is it true that Greek Catholic priests can Marry?
No Catholic priest can marry once ordained to the priesthood. A married man, however, may be ordained to the priesthood in my own particular Eastern Catholic Church, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic, as well as several other Eastern Catholic Churches. At the subdiaconate, a man must choose to remain celibate or marry since once he is ordained deacon he may not marry (or remarry if his wife were to repose before him).
Becoming eastern Catholic isnt all about registering with the parish and becoming Greek Catholic is it? I mean once a person is a Catholic they dont have to label themselves anything other than ‘‘Catholic’’ when attending Eastern rite mass on a regular basis right?
Sorry if my questions seem boring and childish, but then again I consider myself both boring and childish lol
Finally is there a link one can send me to to help me learn more about Greek Catholicism?
Pax Christi
Stephen <3
If you wish to become fully Eastern Catholic there is a spiritual and liturgical heritage that needs to be understood and lived out in daily life.

Of course any Catholic may attend any Catholic liturgy and is encouraged to do so (c.f. Orientale Lumen). One may even do this on a regular basis without changing enrollment in a particular ritual Church. One can attend an Eastern Catholic liturgy regularly and remain “Latin” if they desire.

I would, however, suggest also that if a “Latin” is solely attending an Eastern Catholic parish, discernment should be made as to why you are attending there instead of your Latin parish.

A few links:
saintelias.com/ca/index.php
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_02051995_orientale-lumen_en.html
The Knights of Columbus have a primer on the Eastern Churches in their Veritas series. While I believe the previous work by Bishop +Basil (Losten) was superior, this work is also decent: kofc.org/un/eb/en/resources/cis/CIS342.pdf I still have the previous edition by +Basil as a PDF if you are interested.
 
Christ is Risen!

No Catholic priest can marry once ordained to the priesthood. A married man, however, may be ordained to the priesthood in my own particular Eastern Catholic Church, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic, as well as several other Eastern Catholic Churches. At the subdiaconate, a man must choose to remain celibate or marry since once he is ordained deacon he may not marry (or remarry if his wife were to repose before him).

If you wish to become fully Eastern Catholic there is a spiritual and liturgical heritage that needs to be understood and lived out in daily life.

Of course any Catholic may attend any Catholic liturgy and is encouraged to do so (c.f. Orientale Lumen). One may even do this on a regular basis without changing enrollment in a particular ritual Church. One can attend an Eastern Catholic liturgy regularly and remain “Latin” if they desire.

I would, however, suggest also that if a “Latin” is solely attending an Eastern Catholic parish, discernment should be made as to why you are attending there instead of your Latin parish.

A few links:
saintelias.com/ca/index.php
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_02051995_orientale-lumen_en.html
The Knights of Columbus have a primer on the Eastern Churches in their Veritas series. While I believe the previous work by Bishop +Basil (Losten) was superior, this work is also decent: kofc.org/un/eb/en/resources/cis/CIS342.pdf I still have the previous edition by +Basil as a PDF if you are interested.
Hi, thank you Diak for your helpful information I would indeed love to have the PDF you have proposed. I like to attend the Eastern Liturgy more so than the Latin, but at the same time love the Latin as much as the Eastern for all liturgies are equally Holy as the other.

Pax Christi
Stephen
 
Is it true that Greek Catholic priests can Marry?

Becoming eastern Catholic isnt all about registering with the parish and becoming Greek Catholic is it? :confused: I mean once a person is a Catholic they dont have to label themselves anything other than ‘‘Catholic’’ when attending Eastern rite mass on a regular basis right?

Sorry if my questions seem boring and childish, but then again I consider myself both boring and childish lol :o

Finally is there a link one can send me to to help me learn more about Greek Catholicism?

Pax Christi
Stephen <3
Married men may become priests in almost all of the 22 Catholic Churches; one doesn’t permit it at all, one restricts it to converting clerics, but the rest have some tradition of at least married deacons, and most have married men in the priesthood. All, however, ALSO have a tradition of celibate men in the priesthood.

No man, after ordination to the deaconate (or in some churches, the subdeaconate) may contract a new marriage.

One may attend any liturgy of any catholic parish without regard to one’s enrollment in a particular Church Sui Iuris.

Which itself needs explanation: each of the 22 hierarchies united with the pope is a church sui iuris. Some are a single diocese; others world-wide. The Roman is but one of these (and way larger, about 49x larger, than the others combined). 14 are Byzantine (aka Greek Catholic)… One is enrolled in a Church Sui Iuris by birth, by marriage, canonical tansfer or by conversion. One also enrolls in a parish, but that doesn’t affect which church sui iuris one is a member of. Many Byzantines are enrolled in Roman parishes, and not a few Romans are in Byzantine parishes.
 
Married men may become priests in almost all of the 22 Catholic Churches; one doesn’t permit it at all, one restricts it to converting clerics, but the rest have some tradition of at least married deacons, and most have married men in the priesthood. All, however, ALSO have a tradition of celibate men in the priesthood.

No man, after ordination to the deaconate (or in some churches, the subdeaconate) may contract a new marriage.

One may attend any liturgy of any catholic parish without regard to one’s enrollment in a particular Church Sui Iuris.

Which itself needs explanation: each of the 22 hierarchies united with the pope is a church sui iuris. Some are a single diocese; others world-wide. The Roman is but one of these (and way larger, about 49x larger, than the others combined). 14 are Byzantine (aka Greek Catholic)… One is enrolled in a Church Sui Iuris by birth, by marriage, canonical tansfer or by conversion. One also enrolls in a parish, but that doesn’t affect which church sui iuris one is a member of. Many Byzantines are enrolled in Roman parishes, and not a few Romans are in Byzantine parishes.
How does one make a canonical transfer?:confused: and whats a sui luris?:confused:

Thank you for taking the time to respond

Pax Christi
Stephen <3
 
How does one make a canonical transfer?:confused: and whats a sui luris?:confused:

Thank you for taking the time to respond

Pax Christi
Stephen <3
A Church sui iuris is a Catholic church with its own hierarchy in full communion with the reigning pope as explained by Aramis above. Thus the Latin (or Roman—here in the U.S., we are the majority), Maronite, Ukrainian Greek Catholic, Ruthenian Catholic, Coptic Catholic, Chaldean Catholic, etc., etc. Each is governed by either a patriarch, a major archbishop, a metropolitan archbishop, or some other hierarch.

To make a canonical transfer, you have to have been practicing your Catholic faith in the Church desired for a minimal amount of time—I think 1-2 years is the bare minimum—I recommend more, since your are making a once in a lifetime change. This is important, since,as noted above, with some exceptions, you can only change Churches once in your lifetime and there is some variation in the canon law (an Eastern Catholic cannot marry his/her sibling in law after the death of his/her spouse, for example, or for that matter, a person whom they sponsored as a baptismal godparent, w/o an idult from the Holy See). Once you have been practicing your faith in the desired Church for a while, you petition the local diocesan/eparchial bishop of the Church you want to go to, who then receives the assent of the one you are leaving. He then writes to the Congregation for the Eastern Churches, who acts in the name of the reigning pope and decides whether to grant your request. That’s the basics of it. (Or maybe you petition the Congregation directly, who then receives the assent of the bishops. I can’t remember.) This is assuming you are already a practicing Catholic. For those who are not, canon law dictates that when you become a Catholic, you automatically become a member of the Church which corresponds to the Church or community you are coming from regardless of where you are received into full communion with the Catholic Church (say, a Ukrainian Orthodox Christian would become a Ukrainian Catholic, for example—don’t quote me on this, consult a canon lawyer if you’re in this situation). You could then initiate a petition to transfer.

That being said, don’t just change Churches just b/c you are interested in becoming a married priest (I’m not saying that you are). You have to be sure that you are happy worshipping in the Church of interest and can live with the laws and/or customs of said Church (Eastern Catholic have different fasting rules before Divine Liturgy, I believe, and they also don’t have confessionals, with the exception of the Maronites (?)----also, with the exception of the Maronites, the Eastern Churches don’t use instruments in divine worship). That being said, I highly encourage my fellow Latin Catholics to visit an Eastern Catholic DL at least once in their lifetime. And similarly, I would like to encourage my brethren in the Eastern Churches to visit an AU Mass or a TLM (I haven’t been to a TLM myself) sometime. But I can’t post this last invite here since we’re in the Eastern forums, and it would be off-topic. 😉
 
I meant to elaborate on my last post, but the permitted 20 minutes for editing posts elapsed.

The Latin (or Roman) Catholic Church sui iuris is governed by directly by the Holy Father as its patriarch and by the Code of Canon Law (abbreviated CIC for the Latin title) promulgated in 1983 by the late Pope John Paul II. Some of the requirements of the CIC include a mandatory fast of one hour before receiving Holy Communion (this also binds when we visit Eastern Catholic Churches). I do not know what the Eastern Church fasting requirements are, but I think they are stricter. Also, this Church also confirms (chrismates) cradle Catholics and admits them to Holy Communion usually at the age of discretion. (The Maronite Catholic Church I went to a few weeks back also admitted to Holy Communion some children at said age.) So, if you are under these restrictions, you are most likely a Latin (Roman) Catholic. We also are permitted the use of instruments if the local bishop permits them, and at least here in the U.S., we use circular, individual hosts as our altar bread. In general, our priests must be celibate, once again, with some exceptions. The official title for our Eucharistic worship is the Mass.

The Eastern Catholic Churches sui iuris are governed by the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches (CCEO for the Latin title) promulgated by the late Pope John Paul II in 1990 and by their own hierarchs, be they patriarchs, major archbishops, metropolitans, etc. They, following the Eastern Orthodox customs, usually chrismate (confirm) and admit to Holy Communion cradle Catholics right after baptism. Also, the respective hierarchs of these churches have the right to promulgate particular laws provided that they do not conflict with the CCEO and insomuch as they are needed to provide for the divine honor and the salvation of souls. I do not know what the particular Eastern Catholic fasting requirements are, either the ones regarding the Divine Liturgy or the Great Lenten and holy day ones. With the exception of the Maronites (and maybe some others ?), they do not use instruments in divine worship. Since they are the minority of Catholics in the U.S., if one is an Eastern Catholic, he/she would know it. And as noted above, most Eastern Churches also permit candidates to the presbyterate (priesthood) to be married before ordination to the diaconate. Their worship is called the Divine Liturgy, for some Churches, the Qurbono, for some of them, the Mass, and for still others (such as the Maronites), all of these titles. There are also some other titles which some Churches use to name their worship.

I hope this helps.

Paul R. Viola
 
A Church sui iuris is a Catholic church with its own hierarchy in full communion with the reigning pope as explained by Aramis above. Thus the Latin (or Roman—here in the U.S., we are the majority), Maronite, Ukrainian Greek Catholic, Ruthenian Catholic, Coptic Catholic, Chaldean Catholic, etc., etc. Each is governed by either a patriarch, a major archbishop, a metropolitan archbishop, or some other hierarch.

To make a canonical transfer, you have to have been practicing your Catholic faith in the Church desired for a minimal amount of time—I think 1-2 years is the bare minimum—I recommend more, since your are making a once in a lifetime change. This is important, since,as noted above, with some exceptions, you can only change Churches once in your lifetime and there is some variation in the canon law (an Eastern Catholic cannot marry his/her sibling in law after the death of his/her spouse, for example, or for that matter, a person whom they sponsored as a baptismal godparent, w/o an idult from the Holy See). Once you have been practicing your faith in the desired Church for a while, you petition the local diocesan/eparchial bishop of the Church you want to go to, who then receives the assent of the one you are leaving. He then writes to the Congregation for the Eastern Churches, who acts in the name of the reigning pope and decides whether to grant your request. That’s the basics of it. (Or maybe you petition the Congregation directly, who then receives the assent of the bishops. I can’t remember.) This is assuming you are already a practicing Catholic. For those who are not, canon law dictates that when you become a Catholic, you automatically become a member of the Church which corresponds to the Church or community you are coming from regardless of where you are received into full communion with the Catholic Church (say, a Ukrainian Orthodox Christian would become a Ukrainian Catholic, for example—don’t quote me on this, consult a canon lawyer if you’re in this situation). You could then initiate a petition to transfer.

That being said, don’t just change Churches just b/c you are interested in becoming a married priest (I’m not saying that you are). You have to be sure that you are happy worshipping in the Church of interest and can live with the laws and/or customs of said Church (Eastern Catholic have different fasting rules before Divine Liturgy, I believe, and they also don’t have confessionals, with the exception of the Maronites (?)----also, with the exception of the Maronites, the Eastern Churches don’t use instruments in divine worship). That being said, I highly encourage my fellow Latin Catholics to visit an Eastern Catholic DL at least once in their lifetime. And similarly, I would like to encourage my brethren in the Eastern Churches to visit an AU Mass or a TLM (I haven’t been to a TLM myself) sometime. But I can’t post this last invite here since we’re in the Eastern forums, and it would be off-topic. 😉
Wow, you really did satisfy my thirst for knowledge regarding this matter. I definitely didnt know the church I was attending permitted Priests to Marry, as I was unsure and I definitely do not want to enter the Church for that sole reason. I just love it is all, and I dont feel worthy of the vocation such as Priesthood although I have given plenty of thought the the diaconate, but I dont feel a calling to the priesthood.

The Ukrainian Church is 1 hour on the train away from I live and although I have no job and consider the train fare quite a lot I can say that I will be attending Mass there every Sunday and will be doing my best to do so for as long as God permits it.

Fr.Serge whom I met there gave me a lovely warm welcome, and also informed me that some of the Liturgy is Ukrainian,Greek some english and also the Old traditional Irish language of which he had to learn too.

Thank you for the wealth of information angelic, I really appreciate it.

Pax Christi
Stephen <3
 
You’re welcome, Stephen. 😉

For the Latin Church at least, a married man must be 35 years of age before he may be ordained to diaconate, and he must have the consent of his wife.

CIC Can. 1031.2

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3Q.HTM
haha Yes I know this I tryed but was told 35 years old, and I am delighted to obey and kindly responded to my local parish that ‘‘well at least that gives me another 10 years ( I’m 25 ) to think about my vocation’’ lol ). Holy obedience is very important to Mother Church for if we are interested in giving him Glory and listening to his vocational callings then we will want to do it his way and not our way. 👍

Upon meeting Fr.Serge, he told me that he was in need of a priest or a deacon, I told him how I’ve given a lot of thought to the diaconate in the past but at the moment I am too young for it. He said ‘‘How old are you?’’ I replied ‘‘25 Fr.Serge’’ ‘‘my dear boy thats not too young, your just the age’’ but I told him that in my rite since I am married I must wait till I’m 35. he said ‘‘get down now and I’ll ordain you’’ he was joking of course LOL he is really funny and such a warm and Loving Priest.

I need to give more prayer to my vocation, but Priesthood is out of the question, like St.Francis of Assisi I do not feel worthy ( nor will I ever be worthy even if I did become a Priest ) of such a Holy position.

Pax Christi
Stephen <3
 
Their worship is called the Divine Liturgy, for some Churches, the Qurbono, for some of them, the Mass, and for still others (such as the Maronites), all of these titles. There are also some other titles which some Churches use to name their worship.
Actually each particular Church uses its own terms, for example in the Armenian Church, it is the Badarak; in the Ethiopioan, the Keddase; and so forth. All are generally called “Divine Liturgy” in English translation.
For the Latin Church at least, a married man must be 35 years of age before he may be ordained to diaconate, and he must have the consent of his wife.
In the Eastern Catholic Churches it is up to the Eparchial Bishop in each case; there are quite a few Ukrainian deacons less than 35 years of age in ministry. I believe you are referring to the Latin norms for the “permanent diaconate” which is not an Eastern convention.
Upon meeting Fr.Serge
You are blessed to have Archimandrite Serge in Dublin, and to have His Grace +Hlib as your Exarch.
 
Yes, Diak, I am referring to the Code of Canon Law (for the Latin Church) canon regarding married men aspiring to permanently serve the Church as deacons. For unmarried men, the same canon says that a man 25 years or older may be ordained to the diaconate.

And somehow I remember the Armenian liturgy started with a “b”…I just couldn’t remember right off my tongue. 🙂 I was looking for information on them a month ago.

I think Fr. Archimandrite Serge posts on the Byzantine Forums often.
 
Actually each particular Church uses its own terms, for example in the Armenian Church, it is the Badarak; in the Ethiopioan, the Keddase; and so forth. All are generally called “Divine Liturgy” in English translation.
In English translation that’s not necessarily true, at least among the Orientals. Oh, there are some “spirit of Vatican II” die-hards in our midst who insist on appropriating the decidely Byzantine moniker “Divine Liturgy” rather than “Mass” (the excuse they give is because it “sounds more Eastern” which I find a find to be a hoot and a half). The truth is even the OO generally use the word “Mass” in English translation, so we’re not dealing with a true “latinization” (although the die-hards would have people believe that). And the faithful as a rule continue to use the word “Mass” despite the best (or worst, depending on the point of view) efforts of the die-hard clergy. If I use the English word, I will invariably use “Mass.” So do several bishops and some clergy (inclusing not a few canon lawyers) who are personally known to me.

I have no problem with Byzantines using “Divine Liturgy” since it is a standard. But as I see it, in translation we (the Orientals) are borrowing a word anyway, so why not just use the one that’s traditional and with which even the OO have no problem?
 
That’s why I carefully said “generally”…🙂 I don’t know about a die-hard, but I do believe any use of a Latin liturgical term is in the end a latinization. It seems just calling it Qurbano would work for those of the Syrian tradition, or likewise other received ancient names of other particular traditions.
 
That’s why I carefully said “generally”…🙂 I don’t know about a die-hard, but I do believe any use of a Latin liturgical term is in the end a latinization. It seems just calling it Qurbano would work for those of the Syrian tradition, or likewise other received ancient names of other particular traditions.
I got the “generally” but just couldn’t resist a comment. 😉

For those of us in the Orient, the use of a Byzantine liturgical name in translation is equally alien: a “byzantinization” as it were.

As for the expropriation and transliteration of the word from the traditional liturgical language, it’s really never been done in practice. It’s cumbersome, and inevitably involves an explanation. The fact is, it’s easier and more in keeping with the practice of the OO to use the word “Mass.”

I find it rather amusing that people in these fora often use the transliterated names, but the average Maronite or Chaldean or Copt etc in the street (and often in the rectory) doesn’t.
 
I would say the very great majority of every Eastern Catholic I have met over 50 years of age born in North America uses the term “Mass” regardless of their particular ritual Church.
 
You are blessed to have Archimandrite Serge in Dublin, and to have His Grace +Hlib as your Exarch.
Hi thank you for your encouragment, but what does ‘’+Hlib as Exarch.’’ mean?

Thank you for taking the time to reply to me

Pax Christi
Stephen <3
 
Canon law as translated by the Canon Law Society of the US uses “Divine Worship Service” as the generic. Divine Liturgy is commonly used for Byzantine and Coptic; Badarak and Mass for Armenian; Quorbono and Qurbana, and sometimes Mass, for the Syriac Churches; I don’t remember the Ethiopian.

As for “His Grace ___” that’s the mode of identification of a bishop in the East, or an Archbishop in the west.

Exarch is a bishop who is the ordinary of a given area, but is not enthroned as THE bishop of a place. Exarchs are auxiliary bishops to some other bishop, but tasked with running an exarchate; it’s the step between a deanery and a diocese/eparchy.

So His Grace + Hlib is an auxiliary bishop assigned as ordinary over the exarchate, which eventually may (and very hopefully will) become a diocese.

Traditionally, an Exarchate is used both in mission territory, and as a transition from a deanery to a diocese.
 
Canon law as translated by the Canon Law Society of the US uses “Divine Worship Service” as the generic. Divine Liturgy is commonly used for Byzantine and Coptic; Badarak and Mass for Armenian; Quorbono and Qurbana, and sometimes Mass, for the Syriac Churches; I don’t remember the Ethiopian.

As for “His Grace ___” that’s the mode of identification of a bishop in the East, or an Archbishop in the west.

Exarch is a bishop who is the ordinary of a given area, but is not enthroned as THE bishop of a place. Exarchs are auxiliary bishops to some other bishop, but tasked with running an exarchate; it’s the step between a deanery and a diocese/eparchy.

So His Grace + Hlib is an auxiliary bishop assigned as ordinary over the exarchate, which eventually may (and very hopefully will) become a diocese.

Traditionally, an Exarchate is used both in mission territory, and as a transition from a deanery to a diocese.
This is great, the Holy Spirit is being so helpful to me today through His wonderful Children, of which I am the least.

Thank you Arimas,

Pax Christi
Stephen<3
 
Sorry Aramis, I posted under my Wifes account by accident, she has just signed up to Catholic forums.

Pax Christi
Stephen <3
 
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