A crisis of Faith - or of the imagination?

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BarbaraTherese

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A crisis of Faith or imagination?

I had a very big smile two thirds into this article.

Portion of overall text only…
Imagine yourself lying in bed some night: You have just had a very good time of prayer and are flooded with feelings and images about God. You have strong, clear feelings that God exists. On that particular evening you have no faith doubts; you can feel the existence of God.

Now, imagine another night, a darker one. You wake up from a fitful sleep and are overwhelmed by the sense that you don’t believe in God. You try to convince yourself that you still believe, but you cannot. Every attempt to imagine that God exists and to feel his presence comes up empty. You feel an overwhelming emptiness inside because of that feeling. Try as you like, you cannot shake the feeling that you no longer believe. Try as you like, you can no longer regain the solid ground on which you once stood. Try as you like, you can no longer make yourself feel the existence of God.
 
Greetings Barbara,
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  I suppose if one gets attached to the subjective manifestations of prayer then the feelings of aridity described in this article can be disconcerting..........     With a little understanding they need not be. For some of us these feelings are common occurence.
Bossuet, a great teacher, tried to describe a ‘‘feeling beyond feeling’’… I think our spiritual lives, prayer, communion with God …and love… have a lot in common from that view point. Love generally feels good… its what we have been created for…yet love is what led Jesus to the Garden of Gethsemany and beyond. His Love manifested itself in His Holy Passion. Likewise, when God hides His Face, He loves us no less…He wants us to become as gold that has been purified and therefore we become more precious to Him.

What does God expect us to do when He hides His Face from us ? The same as we do when we rejoice in His Presence: …we continue to love Him… to trust Him … to keep His Word in our hearts.

If we learn to let go of the past and to keep our eyes on Jesus and on the future He promises us, we will get this ‘’ feeling beyond feeling ‘’ that Bossuet describes.
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JMJ,

  Ricardo
 
Well said…Thank you Ricardo…Faith transcends feeling…
 
What does God expect us to do when He hides His Face from us ? The same as we do when we rejoice in His Presence: …we continue to love Him… to trust Him … to keep His Word in our hearts.

If we learn to let go of the past and to keep our eyes on Jesus and on the future He promises us, we will get this ‘’ feeling beyond feeling ‘’ that Bossuet describes.
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JMJ,

  Ricardo
Beautiful!🙂

We are so poor at living in the moment, we are either hankering after the past or hankering for things in the future and if we do this we are always losing the present and wasting it.

I firmly believe that whatever is happening at any given moment we are in God’s Providence and everything is to our good even though we do not have the wisdom to recognise it, so an oasis in prayer/faith is for our benefit and a dry patch in prayer/faith is for our benefit.

We must learn to stop struggling like an animal caught for its own benefit to be ‘treated’ by the vet. I have worked with animals and watched them closely, the animal doesn’t know it is for its own benefit and is fearing the vet and its situation, it struggles and fights the experience and makes its endurance of it worse; it doubts everything that is happening to it. The animal can even bite the hand of the vet in sheer fright and turn and run from the vet.

Like the animal we must take our medicine and be ‘treated’ by God as He knows is best for us and the less we struggle the less painful the transition from sick to healing of soul.

Submission to God in all things; thanking Him for everything.

In the Living prayer of my life
 
Dear Barb

The imagination is in crisis when dry periods in faith happen. In the beginning of the journey in faith with Jesus the imagination has dictated how we ‘should’ experience God and limits the soul. In dry periods God breaks the trappings of the imagination which previously He has utilised to draw us closer to Him until the imagination is tamed and the will and soul dictates to the imagination; this is the ordered practise of faith.

In the Lving Prayer of my life
 
Well said!

And this is what the article is saying. When the mind and heart (are suffering) are elsewhere, it is our will and spirit that keeps us e.g. in the family, in the Church or perhaps in some cause etc. This is exampled with Mother Teresa the article goes on…her diaries tell of her interior anguish and ‘loss of God’ (which was actually a longing for God) - her life (manner of living) tells of her great Faith.
Be that as it may very often the crisis of imagination (I’ll call it) does bring about a very real crisis of Faith and the temptation to abandon Faith and a tremendous interior struggle… very easy to write about another thing entirely to have to live out.

Blessings and God’s Peace…Barb:)
 
Apologies Blessed Star and all…somehow or other I have duplicated my post in attempting to edit.

o0o____
Exceptionally well said!

And this is what the article is saying. When the mind and heart (are suffering) are elsewhere, it is our will and spirit that keeps us e.g. in the family, in the Church or perhaps in some cause etc. This is exampled with Mother Teresa the article goes on…her diaries tell of her interior anguish and ‘loss of God’ (which was actually a longing for God) - her life (manner of living) tells of her great Faith.
Be that as it may very often the crisis of imagination (I’ll call it) does bring about a very real crisis of Faith and the temptation to abandon Faith and a tremendous interior struggle… very easy to write about another thing entirely to have to live out.
We have an example of this from the life of **St. Therese of Lisieux (feastday October 1st next). **For 18 months towards the end of her life she was totally unable to imagine Heaven which had always been a mainstay of her spiritually, and this brought about temptations that Heaven did not exist (temptations against Faith) she persevered in her Faith and endured and Grace prevailed in her. But it was a time of great suffering for her that The Church calls “her Dark Night of The Soul”. The suffering was probably so great for her because imagining Heaven had been such a great support of hers and of her whole spirituality - God withdrew this support.
Some people are constructed so their imagination is not a highly active quality … in others it is highly active. Obviously to withdraw consolations that flow from the imagination in the former will not be as great a suffering as in the latter.

Blessings and God’s Peace…Barb:)
 
http://www.ronrolheiser.com/index.php
A crisis of Faith or imagination?

I had a very big smile two thirds into this article.

Portion of overall text only…
Pardon me, I am lost here. When I click the above link, ronrolheiser.com/index.php, I got the article of “Restlessness on a Friday Night”, talking about finding the right person to have a home with. But all of you are discussing the crisis of faith.

Am I losing it? It could be me, since I am still in the aftermath of sadness in losing my mother. But I just have to ask.
 
Pardon me, I am lost here. When I click the above link, ronrolheiser.com/index.php, I got the article of “Restlessness on a Friday Night”, talking about finding the right person to have a home with. But all of you are discussing the crisis of faith.

Am I losing it? It could be me, since I am still in the aftermath of sadness in losing my mother. But I just have to ask.
I am very sad to hear that you have lost your mother, InLight - very sad! My she with all souls ever rest in God’s Eternal Peace.
Please accept my condolances and may The Lord bring to you every comfort and consolation and also to all who grieve her at this very sad time for you all.

It is I who lost it!!!:o …not unusual and no surprise and my apologies.

The article “Crisis of Faith or The Imagination” can be found on:
ronrolheiser.com/columnarchive/archive_display.php?rec_id=374
…I do try to check my links prior to posting, but things do tend to get away from me and I lapse into error of some kind.
 
Thanks Barb for the link. And thank you for your kind words.
Faith, he assures us, is rarely where our heads are at, nor where our hearts are at. In his words: “Your faith is where your *** is at! Where are you living? What are you doing?” Our commitments, our actions, our charity, and our morality ultimately determine whether we believe or not.
The above paragraph stands out while reading the article.

I agree action speaks louder than words, the way we live demonstrates our true belief. However, as a weak human being, the knowledge in head and the emotion in heart are important to me.

The knowledge of God that He is a loving father, He sent His only begotten son to die for me, and He cares every detail of my life is important to me. This head knowledge, and the belief of this head knowledge, is a necessity of my faith foundation.

The love feeling of Father God, of Lord Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is also important to me. I guess such feelings in heart play an important role for the source of my consolation,the “in love” feeling like the Song of Songs described.

Striving for living a generous Gospel life, of course, is a must for anyone who truly follows Jesus.

So for me, the head, the heart, and the life style are like three sides of my faith triangle.
I hope in case the side of love feeling disappears, I may still sustain.
 
Quoting InLight:
The above paragraph stands out while reading the article.
It struck me too and I smiled!
a weak human being, the knowledge in head and the emotion in heart are important to me.
They are to me too and probably to most if not all since God has gifted us with head and heart and not to be disdained as gifts of God. Also I think** St. Teresa of Avila (15thOct.)**mentions re consolations that we are not to disdain them as they are wondrous gifts of God and to be thankful for them - not to be so reflects gross ingratitude - and I would aslo state a gross overestimation of our own selves. And when our head and hearts are in accord and in consolation this is Gift. Nevertheless, Faith which is a spiritual disposition transcends them and when they fail us, Faith will not provided we correspond with the Grace of Faith. We see this in St. Therese as in my previous post and her crisis of Faith over Heaven which had been alive in her all her life until the crisis. We also see it on Calvary - Jesus who had intimately conversed with His Father often all night in prayer, exclaims on the Cross “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me”. And yet He expires with, in a state of abandonment, “into Your Hands I commend My Spirit” and this was His Act of Faith in Darkness. That very same Spirit Who is Holy is poured fourth at Pentecost into The Church. The Holy Spirit, His Promised Gift to us. “I will send The Holy Spirit to teach you all truths and remain with you forever” This is an awesome statement and fact, though I ‘sight’ it in Faith alone perhaps.
The knowledge of God that He is a loving father, He sent His only begotten son to die for me, and He cares every detail of my life is important to me. This head knowledge, and the belief of this head knowledge, is a necessity of my faith foundation.
As we know there are different stages in the spiritual life and the gift of ‘head knowledge of the articles of Faith and assenting to them’ are a gift and again, consolations…and probably one of the most wondorus gifts God can grant is the feeling that indeed we do love Him and He loves us. If He withdraws these consolations, then the Grace and Fortitude to persevere nevertheless is present for He never tries us beyond our means. The crisis of Faith can occur when we start to doubt our ‘head knowledge’…and this is a painful and difficult, exceptinally difficult, time. It could, could, even go so far as being in state of doubt over all that our Faith teaches, but nevertheless we painfully persevere in our Faith. God is Good. This was the way along which God drew Mother Teresa of Calcutta we now know.
The ‘spiritual way’ as outlined by our great classical spiritual writers and mystic saints is largely an objective matter…what you and I experience on a personal level is subjective and not necessarily following A-B-C or 1-2-3 as our great spiritual thinkers have detailed. And St. Teresa and St. John point this out in their writings.
Be all that as it may. God in His Providence may call a person by the way of consolation all their lives. God is Good. Or He may call aperson by the way of suffering and doubts. God is Good. He never tries us beyond our means to endure for He pours forth Grace into our souls to endure though suffering as Mother Teresa did. Her nuns thought her gifted with great Faith and Joy as she was always smiling and encouraging, they never knew how she suffered interiorly. This was simply God’s path for Mother Teresa not revealed until after her death. As was that of St. Therese, though their paths were entirely different. God is Good.

There of course could be a belief in all that our Faith tells us (head knowledge) and the feeling that we love God and our neighour but our inward and outward behaviour indicates a contradiction and this where our so called *** is at in the terms of the article. Out interior and exterior behaviour is in contradiction to where our heart and head is thought by one to be at. We assent to the articles of Faith and we feel that we love God and He loves us…but there is a distinct contradition present, something that is not falling into place…it means I have a way to go in the spiritual life. The head is probably, perhaps, quite legalistic and the heart loves self more than God but cannot sight these things. We must avoid judgement however because we are all coming from somewhere and the experiences that have fashioned me, may not be present in another. God is Good.

As it says in the Cloud of Unknowing - to seek the God of Consolations and not the consolations of God.
We should never despise consolation no matter their nature, nor denigrate them, they are wondrous Gifts of God - but Gifts nevertheless which we have no claim at all upon nor right to.

God’s Blessings and His Peace - Barb:)
 
Beautiful!🙂

We are so poor at living in the moment, … so an oasis in prayer/faith is for our benefit and a dry patch in prayer/faith is for our benefit.

In the Living prayer of my life
That is the plan…the Divine Plan for each of us…to be present… meaning to be in the reality of being in His Presence ''in the moment ‘’…

Each in our own way…and I think that is important because if we are not the ‘‘salt of the earth’’ then who will be ?..and accepting the ‘‘dry patches’’ along with the ‘‘oasis’’ … knowing that He loves us beyond comprehension and …regardless of what may be going on in the present moment… loving Him.
When Jesus taught us to pray… the first word He said says it all… ‘‘Abba’’…a word for father that implies our child-like love for Him.

Our relationship with God is a story of love… we are the ones who provide the stumbling blocks…However, when we say ‘‘Abba… Your will be done’’ the obstacles begin to disappear.

JMJ,
Ricardo
 
Hi RicardoThere…“Your Will be done” says it all and very concisely and truly…

Good (name removed by moderator)ut in this thread! Thanks all…
 
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