A debate Thead A only scripture agreeing

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edwinG

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Hi,
Can you post scripture agreeing with these ideas. Note, there is another thread Thread B for scripture disagreeing with these ideas.
  1. I am two people, flesh and the inner man
  2. Sin is in the flesh
  3. The inner man can not sin and is resurrected
    4)obey the Holy Spirit
    Christ be with you
    walk in love
    edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
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beng:
Old heresies die hard.
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Hi beng,
Can you show me in scripture please so I can understand.
christ be with you,
walk in love,
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
Are you a Protestant or you’re debating a Protestant and he wants verses from scripture?
 
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beng:
Are you a Protestant or you’re debating a Protestant and he wants verses from scripture?
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I am a Christian and I was wanting scripture passages on these issues. I was not wanting to wade through a lot of opinions.Do you have any scripture passages to help?
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
Beng:

He’s obviously Protestant. Who cares what denomination?

For starters, Edwin, you need to define your terms, as they can mean different things in different contexts.
  1. I am two people, flesh and the inner man
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No; I am only one person. The only being who consists of more than one Person is God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I suppose in a metaphorical sense we can say I am two persons (as Saint Paul does, I think), or that I have “two wills.” But strictly speaking I am a single person, albeit one inclined to sin.
  1. Sin is in the flesh
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Again, what do you mean by flesh? There is nothing intrinsically evil about nature. Scripture often refers to the sinful part of man as “flesh,” but the expression cannot be taken literally, obviously.
  1. The inner man can not sin and is resurrected
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I am only a single man, and I can sin.
4)obey the Holy Spirit
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Duh!
 
Recently I encountered people who don’t want to reveal clearly what they are. I had it.

Let him explain himself first. After all by explaining himself we could better answer his problem…
 
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beng:
Recently I encountered people who don’t want to reveal clearly what they are. I had it.

Let him explain himself first. After all by explaining himself we could better answer his problem…
Click to expand...
I have had the same experiences. Some of our Protestant friends are very hesitant in calling themselves “Protestant”, but vaguely refer to themselves with the generic term “christian”. I personally would like to see people reveal their actual or formal religious affiliation so as to definitively know where each of us stands in a particular issue.

Gerry 🙂
 
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beng:
A Christian?

Then what are you? Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant?
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Hi Beng,
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptised into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew or Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male or female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

I think Scripture may be talking about pride, what do you think beng? For myself, my denomination is not important to me, but being a Christian is. Being this or that can sidetrack the focus of a discussion and it can create divisions, which I am sure no one wants.
Your first post spoke about heresies. Can you explain what you mean?
Christ be with you,
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
 
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beng:
Recently I encountered people who don’t want to reveal clearly what they are. I had it.

Let him explain himself first. After all by explaining himself we could better answer his problem…
Click to expand...
Hi beng,
When you said on your first post, “old heresies die hard” I thought you did understand.
I am confused,
christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
PS, I answered your second post before the others because it only required a short quick response. The others will take some time.
 
Being this or that can sidetrack the focus of a discussion and it can create divisions, which I am sure no one wants.
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It can also simplify them. If you are Catholic, you are obliged to believe several things that contradict those passages in the sense that I perceive you to be using them, and we could demonstrate those teachings to you relatively clearly. If you are Protestant, then we need to know more about what you mean when you use certain terms so we don’t spend wasted effort arguing over something on which there is no substantial disagreement (or conversely, inadvertently gloss over a serious disagreement). Either way, it is essential for good communication to know what your persuasion is.
 
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edwinG:
Hi,
Can you post scripture agreeing with these ideas…
  1. I am two people, flesh and the inner man
  2. Sin is in the flesh
  3. The inner man can not sin and is resurrected
    4)obey the Holy Spirit
Click to expand...
There are no scriptures that support 1, 2, & 3, especially the bizarre idea that you are two people.

4)obey the Holy Spirit

… he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.
John 1:36

… no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit
1Cor. 12:3

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth …
John 16:14

… for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury
Romans 2:8
 
edwin << Your first post spoke about heresies. Can you explain what you mean? >>

Yeah, Beng thought you were holding to a form of Gnosticism since you stated “sin is in the flesh”, but I understood you to simply mean the biblical term of “flesh” as a metaphor for the “sinful nature” (Galatians 5, Romans 7-8, etc).

I believe more “Pentecostal” type denominations use that inner man / outer man terminology. Some biblical translations read that way. Are you a follower of the Kenneth brothers, Copeland / Hagin or “faith” preachers? They speak like that. I used to watch a lot of “Christian TV” and listen to Christian radio :cool:

Phil P
 
Hi Dominvs Vobiscvm,
I am sorry I can not reply on your post, I do not know how to retain my original quotes with your response, but in trying I ended up here.
I hope you can follow my response.
Your questions asking me what I mean
  1. I am flesh and the inner man
    and your response was, No you are one person.Only God is more than one, the Father , Son and Holy Spirit
    You also mention Paul as talking about two wills.
    Romans is a very good book to read to gain some insight into this statement but there are other passages in scripture.
    Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
    2Peter1:13 Yes , I think it is right as long as I am in this tent, to stir you up by reminding you,
    1:14 Knowing that shortly I must pull of my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me.
    Ephesians 3:16 That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man.
    Romans 6:6 Know this that our old man was crucified with Him that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.
I said Sin is in the flesh.
You asked me what is the flesh.
1John2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world.
Romans 8:4 That the righteous requirement of the law might be fullfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:8 So then, those who are in the flesh can not please God.
Galatians 5:16 I say then,"Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, " Most assuredly , I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Galatians And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out Abba, Father.

I said the " inner man can not sin"
and you replied you are a single man and you can sin.

I find that amazing. Were you born again? If so what do you think it means?

I said “obey the Holy Spirit.”
and you replied
Duh!
I ask you, Do you think the Holy Spirit is reading this forum. Do you think your answer pleases Him.

You mentioned that God is the only one who has the trinity.
1John5:7 For there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the word and the Holy Spirit and these three are one.
Genesis1:26 Then God said let us make man in our image according to our likeness.
Now I would like to point out to you that this is in the plural and we are in His (plural ) image. Will word and spirit.
I hope this clarifies my intentions
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
Now I would like to point out to you that this is in the plural and we are in His (plural ) image.
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You got that from “Let Us make man in Our image?” I thought we Catholics were the ones supposedly reading things into Scripture that aren’t there. 😃

If your reasoning were correct, then sin would be the image of God, and I think you can see why that might present some logical difficulties. Excessive literalism almost always leads to heresy in one way or another, so you have to be critical about whether you are taking something so literally as to contradict its intended meaning. Paul most certainly did not intend to use the terms “flesh” and “old man” in the way that you are suggesting, because it would imply that God created sin and/or made sin in His own image.
 
Some translations have inner being, some inner man in Rom 7:22, Eph 3:16. It’s not trying to say you are two people. 😃 We are one person who is “spirit, soul, and body” (1 Thess 5:23) or simply “body and soul” (Matt 10:28). You got the right passages for the flesh/spirit. Read them in various translations to clear things up. It’s saying we have a sinful nature.

edwin << Genesis1:26 Then God said let us make man in our image according to our likeness.
Now I would like to point out to you that this is in the plural and we are in His (plural ) image. Will word and spirit.
I hope this clarifies my intentions >>

Ah ha, sounds like Benny Hinn’s bizarre exegesis "there’s nine of them." And since we are made in the image of the Trinity, there’s nine of us. 😃 Not to confuse you even more. :cool:

Phil P
 
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PhilVaz:
edwin << Your first post spoke about heresies. Can you explain what you mean? >>

Yeah, Beng thought you were holding to a form of Gnosticism since you stated “sin is in the flesh”, but I understood you to simply mean the biblical term of “flesh” as a metaphor for the “sinful nature” (Galatians 5, Romans 7-8, etc).

I believe more “Pentecostal” type denominations use that inner man / outer man terminology. Some biblical translations read that way. Are you a follower of the Kenneth brothers, Copeland / Hagin or “faith” preachers? They speak like that. I used to watch a lot of “Christian TV” and listen to Christian radio :cool:

Phil P
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Hi PhilVaz,
Thanks for helping out. No, I have not heard of the Kenneth Brothers, Copeland or “faith teachers” I have heard of Hagen. The only Christian TV I have watched is EWTN and I dont listen to christian radio. I studied the bible for more than a year in Australia before coming to Thailand and then I again studied the bible for more than a year here and then I became lonely for a bit of christian fellowship. I went to a church and thought it was baptist but after a year or so I discovered that the Baptist signs were advertising for the Baptist English teaching programme, which this church participated in. LOL they werent baptist at all. Anyway it didnt bother me, I just go to church. I did see a couple of shows on TV regarding “faith healers” but these were “natives” pretending to pull “flesh” out of sick bodies, but in reality I think they were using chicken meat. It did cure the locals though and some cancer patients went into remission, I believe.
Isnt the term flesh used in your bible. It is so often referred to in my bible. Do you want more quotes?
Chirst be with you,
walk in love
edwinG
 
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JPrejean:
It can also simplify them. If you are Catholic, you are obliged to believe several things that contradict those passages in the sense that I perceive you to be using them, and we could demonstrate those teachings to you relatively clearly. If you are Protestant, then we need to know more about what you mean when you use certain terms so we don’t spend wasted effort arguing over something on which there is no substantial disagreement (or conversely, inadvertently gloss over a serious disagreement). Either way, it is essential for good communication to know what your persuasion is.
Click to expand...
Hi JPrejean,
Thanks for your wisdom.
What you say does make sense, and isn’t that a shame. When one christian has to know which branch another christian is from before he can communicate. Do you think that please Christ, that He is so divided?
I will leave the discussion to those who have the freedom to discuss issues about which they have a perception of contradiction to quotes from scripture.
I am not aware I am arguing, I am wanting to learn. Maybe I wont agree, but on those issues surely christians can be mindful of anothers opinion. There is no club in my hand.
It certainly is a sad worldhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinG
 
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