A den of evil? Or a place to let your light shine? Bad company corrupts good character? Be in the world but not of it?

[ethereality]

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:40:08 -0500
From: lambdagrads
Subject: Quizzo Tonight
To: LAMBDA-GRADS

Reminder,

Tonight, QSP2 and Lambda Grads are co-hosting a quizzo night at the LGBT center at 7pm. Questions are queer-themed. Beer and food will be provided. It’ll be a fun happy hour. Be there!

Ryan

It seems conversion occurs through relationship, and not in vacuo. On what conditions should a Christian go to or refrain from such an event? Is it a den of evil? or a place to let your light shine? Does bad company always corrupt good character? Or can we bring them out of quicksand if we remain on solid ground? What does it mean to be in the world but not of it?

My intention is to meet people, establish relationships, perhaps have a little fun, and try to make a positive contribution. Don’t you think these people need more positive relationships in their lives, one which may help them to focus on Christ more than their sexual temptations and troubles?

What do you think?

 

[jmcrae]

It seems conversion occurs through relationship, and not in vacuo. On what conditions should a Christian go to or refrain from such an event?

You don’t have to attend this event, to meet people who need Jesus. Try meeting people at the bus stop, or in the places that you normally would go. If it were me, I would not attend this event. There would be no point in it, for me.

First, nobody is going there to meet you. Your voice will be entirely drowned out - nothing you say in that context will be heard or understood.

Second, there is nothing going on there that will be edifying in any way to you.

Is it a den of evil?

It is a den of pointlessness.

or a place to let your light shine?

I just don’t see how one little p(name removed by moderator)rick of light is going to penetrate such a murky garbage dump. Plus, I think they would squash you.

My intention is to meet people, establish relationships, perhaps have a little fun, and try to make a positive contribution.

You can meet these people elsewhere. You cannot establish any kind of a relationship in one evening. I fail to see what kind of “fun” you are likely to have at such an event. I do not think the official organizers of the event would allow you to make any kind of a contribution - the minute you get on the podium, you will likely be hauled away by the bouncers as a disturber of the peace.

Don’t you think these people need more positive relationships in their lives, one which may help them to focus on Christ more than their sexual temptations and troubles?

I certainly do - but this is not the venue for it. I think it would speak greater volumes for you to stay away from it. Perhaps you could provide an alternative event on the same evening that would be more appealing, and less political.

(My enemies host birthday parties on the same evenings as the events I organize - it’s frustratingly effective at emptying out my events.)

 

[ethereality]

On a related note, I wondered what you’d think of this video featuring the university’s chaplain. The only negativity in the video is against vague ideas of historical oppression relating to sexuality. Is his message a dangerous one, one that could easily be taken to encourage homosexual expression, redefining marriage, etc? I found it on the LGBT blog on the LGBT website, and on youtube you see it’s been uploaded by them.

Is he only being welcoming and affirming of human dignity? Or is he promoting anti-Christian sentiment? What d’you think? This may be a separate topic (i.e. better in a different thread), but it is related and relevant here to the question of how Christians should engage people with beliefs incompatible with the catholic faith.

 

[Zundrah]

It seems conversion occurs through relationship, and not in vacuo. On what conditions should a Christian go to or refrain from such an event? Is it a den of evil? or a place to let your light shine? Does bad company always corrupt good character? Or can we bring them out of quicksand if we remain on solid ground? What does it mean to be in the world but not of it?

My intention is to meet people, establish relationships, perhaps have a little fun, and try to make a positive contribution. Don’t you think these people need more positive relationships in their lives, one which may help them to focus on Christ more than their sexual temptations and troubles?

What do you think?

Only go if you are 100% confident that you are going to get through to them and not be sucked into being convinced by them to just blend it. etc

So over all, no, because we are all susceptible.

 

[Leegal]

Just no.

 

[jmcrae]

On a related note, I wondered what you’d think of this video featuring the university’s chaplain. The only negativity in the video is against vague ideas of historical oppression relating to sexuality. Is his message a dangerous one, one that could easily be taken to encourage homosexual expression, redefining marriage, etc? I found it on the LGBT blog on the LGBT website, and on youtube you see it’s been uploaded by them.

Is he only being welcoming and affirming of human dignity? Or is he promoting anti-Christian sentiment? What d’you think? This may be a separate topic (i.e. better in a different thread), but it is related and relevant here to the question of how Christians should engage people with beliefs incompatible with the catholic faith.

He seems to be promoting his services as a counsellor, and encouraging those who are having problems, including those who feel themselves to be homosexual or transgendered, to come to him for the help and guidance they need.

Don’t let on to the LBGT community, but it’s clear that he sees homosexuality as a life problem that requires spiritual counseling; not something normal, like having divorced parents.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

No.

I’m afraid you are naive if you think your message would be welcome. That crowd is not exactly tolerant towards us, in case you haven’t noticed. In my experience, when people feel they need God and are willing to investigate things they make an effort to do so. Many are scared and will not just walk into a church, but they will find a way to get information through various sources. CAF is one of them. There are ways of reaching out to people that don’t include hanging out in gay bars and similar venues.

 

[LegoGE1947]

It seems conversion occurs through relationship, and not in vacuo. On what conditions should a Christian go to or refrain from such an event? Is it a den of evil? or a place to let your light shine? Does bad company always corrupt good character? Or can we bring them out of quicksand if we remain on solid ground? What does it mean to be in the world but not of it?

My intention is to meet people, establish relationships, perhaps have a little fun, and try to make a positive contribution. Don’t you think these people need more positive relationships in their lives, one which may help them to focus on Christ more than their sexual temptations and troubles?

What do you think?

I think I wouldn’t last five minutes in a place like this.

 

[nickybr38]

I think giving the appearance of consent is never wise.

 

[Zundrah]

I think I wouldn’t last five minutes in a place like this.

What is this place anyway?

 

[Zundrah]

Only go if you are 100% confident that you are going to get through to them and not be sucked into being convinced by them to just blend it. etc

So over all, no, because we are all susceptible.

Whoah wait a sec, I thought this was just a dodgey club. Then I Google the name of it and find out it’s a gay bar…

 

[LegoGE1947]

What is this place anyway?

From the original post it sounds like some sort of gay bar. 1) I don’t even go into regular bars 2) I don’t hang around, at least knowingly, with gays. 3) Why are they called “gays” anyhow? Gay used to mean happy. On television gays don’t look so happy. They look fierce and angry

 

[ethereality]

Whoah wait a sec, I thought this was just a dodgey club. Then I Google the name of it and find out it’s a gay bar…

lol, what?

I thought it was clear through context that it was the LGBT center of the university… or perhaps the GLBTQIA center, if you want to play their game … (That was one of the Quizzo questions, “How many letters have been taken over by the “gay” community, and what do they stand for?” Quizzo is a game where people make teams of 3-5 and answer trivia questions, usually with beer, in case you didn’t know.)

I arrived around 7:15 and left around 8:05. It certainly was a reminder to me that these people have serious problems, and don’t seem to be getting the help they need; it’s sad. Perhaps I might see the three men I met around campus again, and maybe a door’s been opened to further conversation and relationship. Overall, though, my presence didn’t seem very helpful to them.

What has been said here is generally accurate. Most people, if they thought anything of me, probably thought I was ‘one of them’. I said very little to the men I sat with, and I even forgot to give them my contact info if they wanted to hang out more later. In hindsight, I think one of them may have wanted to – he mentioned ‘getting dinner afterward’; perhaps he wanted me to accompany him (but really, a dinner after 9pm is too late for my schedule).

Oh well. Maybe God’s will was done.

 

[ethereality]

He seems to be promoting his services as a counsellor, and encouraging those who are having problems, including those who feel themselves to be homosexual or transgendered, to come to him for the help and guidance they need.

Don’t let on to the LBGT community, but it’s clear that he sees homosexuality as a life problem that requires spiritual counseling; not something normal, like having divorced parents.

I don’t think this is correct; or, what do you mean? Did you catch where he refers to the LGBT Center as “a fantastic place”? He might even call it a “home away from home” and “a satellite” (of CAPS+Chaplain Office) in the sense of a place where people can receive good counsel!

In fact, the LGBT Center appears to be a place to reinforce sexual problems (e.g. last night’s game night which was beer + socializing + sexuality propaganda). Evidence includes a large painting of a naked male torso in the lobby along with free condoms and “gay pride” pins for the taking. Yet in the video he encourages frequenting this place, doesn’t he?

 

[Allegra]

I wouldn’t expect anything good to come of going to an event such as this.

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t think this is correct; or, what do you mean? Did you catch where he refers to the LGBT Center as “a fantastic place”? He might even call it a “home away from home” and “a satellite” (of CAPS+Chaplain Office) in the sense of a place where people can receive good counsel!

In fact, the LGBT Center appears to be a place to reinforce sexual problems (e.g. last night’s game night which was beer + socializing + sexuality propaganda). Evidence includes a large painting of a naked male torso in the lobby along with free condoms and “gay pride” pins for the taking. Yet in the video he encourages frequenting this place, doesn’t he?

Whatever. I don’t think he’s Catholic, and clearly, the University itself is not Catholic, so we shouldn’t expect him or them to adhere to our standards. Expect this sort of thing, and let it pass you by. There was a lot of weird stuff going on at my school too, back in the early 1980s - the late teens and early twenties seem to be a time for exploring sexuality, including some really bizarre forms of sexuality, and for people who have no moral grounding, it seems as if anything goes - it always has; this is nothing new.

I thought he was referring to the Counseling office as “a fantastic place” for kids to come and talk about their problems - I didn’t realize he was referring to the gay club - but in any case, it doesn’t really matter - as a Catholic, you aren’t going to be going to that guy for your spiritual counseling; you’ll go to your own parish priest. Anyone who is active and regular in their own Church community will do the same - go to their own pastor, rather than some random person who is on campus.

 

[jmcrae]

Overall, though, my presence didn’t seem very helpful to them.

I’m still trying to figure out why you thought it would be.

What has been said here is generally accurate. Most people, if they thought anything of me, probably thought I was ‘one of them’. I said very little to the men I sat with, and I even forgot to give them my contact info if they wanted to hang out more later. In hindsight, I think one of them may have wanted to – he mentioned ‘getting dinner afterward’; perhaps he wanted me to accompany him (but really, a dinner after 9pm is too late for my schedule).

He probably thought you were hitting on him. Be careful.

 

[LegoGE1947]

lol, what?

I thought it was clear through context that it was the LGBT center of the university… or perhaps the GLBTQIA center, if you want to play their game … (That was one of the Quizzo questions, “How many letters have been taken over by the “gay” community, and what do they stand for?” Quizzo is a game where people make teams of 3-5 and answer trivia questions, usually with beer, in case you didn’t know.)

I arrived around 7:15 and left around 8:05. It certainly was a reminder to me that these people have serious problems, and don’t seem to be getting the help they need; it’s sad. Perhaps I might see the three men I met around campus again, and maybe a door’s been opened to further conversation and relationship. Overall, though, my presence didn’t seem very helpful to them.

What has been said here is generally accurate. Most people, if they thought anything of me, probably thought I was ‘one of them’. I said very little to the men I sat with, and I even forgot to give them my contact info if they wanted to hang out more later. In hindsight, I think one of them may have wanted to – he mentioned ‘getting dinner afterward’; perhaps he wanted me to accompany him (but really, a dinner after 9pm is too late for my schedule).

Oh well. Maybe God’s will was done.

Even the “rainbow” has been taken over by the gay community!

 

[Zundrah]

Even the “rainbow” has been taken over by the gay community!

Don’t worry. I figured out how we can get it back;

youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4

 

[Allegra]

Don’t worry. I figured out how we can get it back;

youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4

That was the most annoying thing I’ve ever seen in my life. It made me want to shoot my laptop.