A different view of "sin"

[Pugsly]

Here is an unusual take…Sin is…less than sustainable goodness.

“Virtus” or Virtue comes from the Latin word for power. All virtues are in fact a kind of power. Now, God has perfectly ordered virtue that sustains Him eternally. When God chose to act out His virtues…He Mercifully allowed the limited good to come into existence.

Is sin, therefore limited good? No, God is good…but God knew we would wander into sin…and become unsustainable…which God refers to as “death”.

Now, what makes a good sustainable…? Unity with ALL good…proper order…a home is found for a limited good within all goodness…In our case…God has a home for us within His infinite Mercy.
On the other hand, a limited good becomes unsustainable by being cut-off from the source of life–Christ Jesus, God, Mercy, etc.

 

[JRKH]

Good thoughts…

In simplest terms - God is Love…Sin is that which departs from Love.

Peace
James

 

[fhansen]

Here is an unusual take…Sin is…less than sustainable goodness.

“Virtus” or Virtue comes from the Latin word for power. All virtues are in fact a kind of power. Now, God has perfectly ordered virtue that sustains Him eternally. When God chose to act out His virtues…He Mercifully allowed the limited good to come into existence.

Is sin, therefore limited good? No, God is good…but God knew we would wander into sin…and become unsustainable…which God refers to as “death”.

Now, what makes a good sustainable…? Unity with ALL good…proper order…a home is found for a limited good within all goodness…In our case…God has a home for us within His infinite Mercy.
On the other hand, a limited good becomes unsustainable by being cut-off from the source of life–Christ Jesus, God, Mercy, etc.

Yes. Man was never meant to stray from God-and His will. ‘Apart from Him we can do nothing’. The purpose of the New Covenant is reconciliation-the restoration of God’s creation to alignment with His will, and apparently for an even greater good than that in the end according to our faith.

 

[Michael19682]

Good thoughts…

In simplest terms - God is Love…Sin is that which departs from Love.

Peace
James

For the purpose of the thread discussion alone: Where in today’s world is true love found? How to know if what you are following is true love? And if your reference is to the inward experience of love, how to know that what you are sacrificing for is not bait on satan’s hook? A kind of evil doppleganger in a gedanken experiment?

 

[Aloysium]

How to know if what you are following is true love?

That’s why we need the Church: are we hearing our conscience or our lies?

There are hazards along the path towards the Truth.

We are blessed however, Christ died for our sins. We can be redeemed.

 

[Michael19682]

That’s why we need the Church: are we hearing our conscience or our lies?

There are hazards along the path towards the Truth.

We are blessed however, Christ died for our sins. We can be redeemed.

Several problems with your response. Why hazards? Why hazing? What path towards the truth? We follow Jesus. If his way is Love, then love is the path, is the truth. Surely we don’t, like we do a path, trample on love.

 

[Aloysium]

Several problems with your response. Why hazards? Why hazing? What path towards the truth? We follow Jesus. If his way is Love, then love is the path, is the truth. Surely we don’t, like we do a path, trample on love.

“Why hazards? Why hazing?”

sorry dude, you lost me
I was referring to my path, which unfortunately has diverged too often from His.

Matt 7:13 'Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it; 14 but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

That gate is hard to find and that road can get very narrow; before I know it, I’m lost.

Jere 6:16 Yahweh says this, 'Stand at the crossroads and look, ask for the ancient paths: which was the good way? Take it and you will find rest for yourselves. But they have said, “We will not take it.”

I think myself wise enough to know which road to take, but it doesn’t always work out.

Surely we don’t, like we do a path, trample on love.

I think you are being a little too concrete here - is this a joke?

Referring to Church teachings is imperative if there is any uncertainty in matters that are of grave importance.
One’s lies to oneself can be very convincing.

Ultimately, I will sin, but:
John 3:16 For this is how God loved the world: he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.

 

[Michael19682]

sorry dude, you lost me
I was referring to my path, which unfortunately has diverged too often from His.

Matt 7:13 'Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it; 14 but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

That gate is hard to find and that road can get very narrow; before I know it, I’m lost.

Jere 6:16 Yahweh says this, 'Stand at the crossroads and look, ask for the ancient paths: which was the good way? Take it and you will find rest for yourselves. But they have said, “We will not take it.”

I think myself wise enough to know which road to take, but it doesn’t always work out.

I think you are being a little too concrete here - is this a joke?

Referring to Church teachings is imperative if there is any uncertainty in matters that are of grave importance.
One’s lies to oneself can be very convincing.

Ultimately, I will sin, but:
John 3:16 For this is how God loved the world: he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.

Actually, i think your analysis is too concrete. The narrow gate passage is obviously figurative. And a lie is a lie. People generally don’t believe their own lies. Lies are a political, self serving (in)expedient – I’m sure we can agree.

Mt 7:11
If you then, who are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give good things to those who ask him.

If the wicked can give good gifts how much more will they be truthful with themselves and their children.

I was only suggesting that the road parables of Jesus are figurative, not literal. For example, on narrow road, shouldn’t it be more difficult to, get lost, than on a wider road? If the path is the way and is interior, the message becomes “stay focused and be single minded”, and there should really be no difficulty taking up one’s cross:

Mt 11:30

"For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.”

 

[JRKH]

For the purpose of the thread discussion alone: Where in today’s world is true love found?

In today’s world, True love is found in the same place it has always been found. It is found in God who is Love.

How to know if what you are following is true love?

The best way is through an examination of conscience. By prayer and a careful consideration of our acts as they relate to that which described in the NT. For example…
Mt 22:36-40 tells us that all of the law and all of the prophets are based on the great commandments of Love.
John 15:13 says that, "Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
St Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 13 that, “4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5 it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”
St James, in the second chapter of his letter, describes how one knows if he has a living faith. One can simply substitute “Love” for “faith” and the passage will still make sense.

Other examples in Scripture can surely be found.

And if your reference is to the inward experience of love, how to know that what you are sacrificing for is not bait on satan’s hook? A kind of evil doppleganger in a gedanken experiment?

Having no idea of what a “doppleganger” or a gedanken" is…I can only speak to the first part of your question.
Satan does indeed try to tempt us with cheap imitations and being imperfect creatures we will likely fall for one of these imitations from time to time. This is especially true when we are younger and less experienced.
Yet - The Love that we speak of here…Agape…is not an emotion so much as a decision. It is not a reaction to stimuli, like passion is. It is very often a choice made for the higher good and in many cases it is something taken in opposition to what we would prefer (if given our druthers).
Yet - the love we follow - the Love that IS God, is a purely creative thing…force if you like…It builds up, it creates, it supports, it even equalizes in many ways.
Satan - by contrast, cannot offer this. He might try to delude us - placing questions and suggesting options to us that are lesser goods…and as I say - we can very easily get off track - but the inferiority of this lesser good quickly comes to light when one is firmly focused on God in Love.
Then we turn away from that lesser good and reach for the greater good.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Several problems with your response. Why hazards? Why hazing?

Hazards are part and parcel with the consequences of original sin. In gaining the “knowledge of good and evil” we also gained the responsibilities and culpabilities that go along with that knowledge.

What path towards the truth? We follow Jesus. If his way is Love, then love is the path, is the truth. Surely we don’t, like we do a path, trample on love.

One does not “trample” a path. A path is meant to be trod. That is what a path is for. “trample” implies abuse. One does not abuse a path by walking upon it.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

I was only suggesting that the road parables of Jesus are figurative, not literal. For example, on narrow road, shouldn’t it be more difficult to, get lost, than on a wider road? If the path is the way and is interior, the message becomes “stay focused and be single minded”, and there should really be no difficulty taking up one’s cross:

Mt 11:30

"For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.”

I think you make a good point here. The narrow road should be easier to stay on. Especially if we are properly focused.
The more clearly we see things, the more we pay attention, the easier it is to stay focused.
The difficulty comes in when we are not so focused or when (through inexperience etc) be become distracted and then we wind up getting “off track”.

Yes the “path” and the “gate” are figurative…but highly useful images.
For instance, in talking with a person who seems highly focused on “avoiding sin” (as opposed to building up Love)…I liken it to walking the path backwards. They are looking too much at that which they are running away from. This makes if very difficult to find that “narrow gate” in the wall.
I encourage such people to turn around and focus instead on the goal…which is Agape Love…which is God.

Peace
James