A difficult Annulment Situation

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Hello everyone:

I apologize if this has been asked somewhere else that I was unable to find. I did try to search and was unsuccessful. With that, I’d like to pose my fiancee and my situation in hopes for incite and comments from some of the priests on this forum.

I am engaged to a wonderful Catholic woman and we are looking to be married Catholic. I am not Catholic, but I am beginning the RCIA classes in my journey to convert to Catholicism.

My fiancee **was **previously married though not in the Catholic Church. She was married in the Methodist Church (a protestant church) without permission. Her situation was that her previous husband (and at that time fiance) was a soldier and was due to be deployed and they did not have time to complete the pre-marital classes through the Church. She through caution to the wind and married outside of the church despite their denial to marry her without the classes. At the time she felt this was unfair of the Church, but now has the clarity that the Church was wise and if she had participated in those classes she may have seen the warning signs that ultimately doomed her marriage. Her husband suffered from a mental illness that led to emotional abuse and the crumbling of their vows. This previous marriage was **not blessed **by the Catholic Church nor recognized by the Catholic Church, and again, she was not granted permission by the Catholic Church to marry outside the Church.

She now has a civil divorce for some time now and all ties with her ex have been severed due to his mental illness and general unstable state. Our question is: does she need to obtain an annulment?

We have searched the internet and tried to be in touch with our local parish priests however they have not gotten back to us. What we have found on the internet is a mixed bag of confusion. Most sources say that if the marriage was not recognized by the Catholic Church then there is no need for an annulment. Other sources say that if there is a religious wedding witnessed by God in a church of any kind that there needs to be an annulment because the Catholic Church recognizes all religious marriages. The side note to that is that it seemed to refer to this when both parties are of that faith. In my fiancee’s case she was a Catholic marrying in the other denomination without permission. Overall, we are both left with great confusion and much angst at the thought of not being able to be married in the Church.

If she does need to obtain an annulment we are both worried regarding the need to contact her ex-husband. He does suffer from a significant mental illness with psychotic features and communication with him is very difficult as the last address she has for him is over a year old and she has no telephone number for him. Furthermore, for our sanity and safety we do not want him to know where she is so he does not become a threat. If the parish needs to contact him in order to obtain a statement for the annulment process he would then know where she is.

In the end, this has been a great deal of stress for both of us and we are both trying to obtain an answer. I am assuming that the bottom line will rest with the priest who is to marry us, but any guidance, words of wisdom or thoughts and prayers would be quite welcome and gratefully accepted.

Thank you for indulging my long post.

God bless you all!
 
She should contact her priest. It sounds like her situation is one that would be considered lack of form and does not require the full Tribunal process. To get an idea of what is involved, go the web site for your diocese. Chances are they will have a section for the Tribunal with a set of frequently answered questions and a PDF of the forms that would need to be completed.
 
You both must be declared free to marry.

When you do your premarital counseling with the priest, he will conduct a premarital investigation.

At that time, your fiancee will present her marriage and divorce certificates and a recent copy of her baptismal records (or give the priest the info on where to obtain her sacramental records). This will show that she did not marry in the Church.

The priest will then complete paperwork for the diocese. This is called a lack of form. It requires paperwork, but it is not a full tribunal investigation and nullity process.

Now, just to clear up your concerns regarding those who do through a tribunal process, the ex-spouse is contacted by the *diocese * and not by the spouse or parish priest. The ex does not have any direct contact with the petitioning spouse nor are any personal details such as address or phone number given to them. And, if the ex cannot be located or chooses to ignore/not participate in the process the nullity case can proceed without them.

So, make an appointment with the priest and explain everything to him. Wherever you read the info about any religious wedding being recognized was talking about non-Catholics. Catholics are bound by Catholic form unless they receive a dispensation.
 
1ke said:
You both must be declared free to marry.

When you do your premarital counseling with the priest, he will conduct a premarital investigation.

At that time, your fiancee will present her marriage and divorce certificates and a recent copy of her baptismal records (or give the priest the info on where to obtain her sacramental records). This will show that she did not marry in the Church.

The priest will then complete paperwork for the diocese. This is called a lack of form. It requires paperwork, but it is not a full tribunal investigation and nullity process.

**Now, just to clear up your concerns regarding those who do through a tribunal process, the ex-spouse is contacted by the *diocese *** and not by the spouse or parish priest. The ex does not have any direct contact with the petitioning spouse nor are any personal details such as address or phone number given to them. And, if the ex cannot be located or chooses to ignore/not participate in the process the nullity case can proceed without them.

So, make an appointment with the priest and explain everything to him. Wherever you read the info about any religious wedding being recognized was talking about non-Catholics. Catholics are bound by Catholic form unless they receive a dispensation.
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Thank you both so much for your responses! It sounds like she will need a lack of form process. The worry with contacting the ex - even if it is the diocese - is that he will then know what state she is in. We want as little info as possible to get to him. We are hoping the priest will be sympathetic to this as we are fearful of possible violent attacks should he learn of her whereabouts.

Regarding the lack of form - I found the “lack of form” form from our diocese and on that form it asks if the marriage was ever blessed by a priest. My fiancee did have a “ring blessing” ceremony by a priest but she does not consider that to be a blessing of the marriage. Because I am not yet familiar with the Catholic traditions I will trust her on this, plus we will certainly talk about all of this with our priest once we are able. We have not been able to schedule a meeting with him as he has not returned our telephone messages.

Again, thank you so much for your comments and responses!

God Bless.
 
to_God said:
Regarding the lack of form - I found the “lack of form” form from our diocese and on that form it asks if the marriage was ever blessed by a priest. My fiancee did have a “ring blessing” ceremony by a priest but she does not consider that to be a blessing of the marriage. Because I am not yet familiar with the Catholic traditions I will trust her on this, plus we will certainly talk about all of this with our priest once we are able. We have not been able to schedule a meeting with him as he has not returned our telephone messages.

Again, thank you so much for your comments and responses!

God Bless.
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There is no official thing called a “ring blessing” or a “priest blessing”. What happens when an invalid marriage is made valid is called a “Convalidation”. I know that sometimes people attach names to things that do not convey what is actually taking place (the reason that WORDS matter, but, that is a whole 'nother thread).

Did she and the man say vows in front of a Catholic Priest during this “ring blessing”. If they did, sounds like it was a convalidation. If that is the case, then, she is still considered married to her husband. She would not be free to date until that marriage is reviewed by the tribunal.
 
She needs to make sure she didn’t receive a convalidation. She should ask for her sacramental record at the church where she was baptized which she needs for a future marriage anyway.
 
She did not say vows during the ceremony. She and her ex stood before the congregation and they were blessed as a couple. Something to the effect of “Bless this couple as they join this Parish.” Obviously this is not a direct quote, but the gist of what was said. Her ex was not Catholic, she was. They were basically “blessed” into the parish during a mass from her description.

Believe me, if you find yourselves confused, imagine how she and I feel.

We are trying to make an appointment with our priest this week to have all of these questions hopefully answered officially. I will certainly let you all know what he has to say. And hopefully our experience can lend help to others in the same precarious situation.

I thank you all for your comments and help! It’s certainly an anxiety provoking experience. With God’s grace we will be guided through this time to come out on the other side and begin our marriage in the Catholic way - through God and through the universal Church.
 
More info: Come to find out - she got in contact with her old priest (this priest is very timely in his responses!) and actually confirmed that the “blessing” that was performed was a convalidation and that they had the documentation at the church.

We now know that she will have to go through a formal annulment process. Her old priest said it would have to be done through our current diocese. He also said that there are, at times, exceptions made in regard to contacting the ex in situations of mental instability and a proposed danger. We are hoping and praying that is the case.

It is not the answer we were hoping for, but we are praying everyday and will continue to seek God’s guidance through this time. We’ll keep our outlook to the years ahead for the well being and growth of our family!

Is there any specific questions I/we should ask our priest tomorrow night?

Thank you all!
 
to_God said:
More info: Come to find out - she got in contact with her old priest (this priest is very timely in his responses!) and actually confirmed that the “blessing” that was performed was a convalidation and that they had the documentation at the church.

We now know that she will have to go through a formal annulment process. Her old priest said it would have to be done through our current diocese. He also said that there are, at times, exceptions made in regard to contacting the ex in situations of mental instability and a proposed danger. We are hoping and praying that is the case.

It is not the answer we were hoping for, but we are praying everyday and will continue to seek God’s guidance through this time. We’ll keep our outlook to the years ahead for the well being and growth of our family!

Is there any specific questions I/we should ask our priest tomorrow night?

Thank you all!
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Canonically you can pursue a decree of nullity in several jurisdictions:

Can. 1673 In cases concerning the nullity of marriage which are not reserved to the Apostolic See, the following are competent:

1/ the tribunal of the place in which the marriage was celebrated;

2/ the tribunal of the place in which the respondent has a domicile or quasi-domicile;

3/ the tribunal of the place in which the petitioner has a domicile, provided that both parties live in the territory of the same conference of bishops and the judicial vicar of the domicile of the respondent gives consent after he has heard the respondent;

4/ the tribunal of the place in which in fact most of the proofs must be collected, provided that consent is given by the judicial vicar of the domicile of the respondent, who is first to ask if the respondent has any exception to make.
 
Just to give you a little more reassurance…she will not have to personally contact her ex. The Tribunal will do that and her contact information can remain private. This should not be a case where he is suddenly in touch with her.

The Tribunal will be very familiar in dealing with such a scenario. Please reassure her of that. I have been through the process myself.
 
dulcissima said:
Just to give you a little more reassurance…she will not have to personally contact her ex. The Tribunal will do that and her contact information can remain private. This should not be a case where he is suddenly in touch with her.

The Tribunal will be very familiar in dealing with such a scenario. Please reassure her of that. I have been through the process myself.
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I appreciate your comments. What we are concerned with is even though she does not have to directly contact him, the Tribunal will. And they will identify where they are from. He does not know what state she lives in, and even what part of the state! She has moved practically across the country to try and rid herself of potential threat, but with the local Tribunal identifying themselves in the contact as the diocese where she is now it will give him a trail to what state she is in. We are not willing to have her or our safety jeopardized and that is making us both quite anxious that we may not be able to go forward with the annulment process if her ex must be contacted. That is where our concern lies. Does that make sense?

Her priest from her past parish said that there are exceptions made in situations like hers so I am praying our local priest will agree. We actually were able to schedule a meeting with our priest tonight. I will update with any pertinents after our meeting tonight. I’m praying for the courage and the strength to see this through. It is a test from God and we are praying for the strength and guidance to see this through.

Thank you all!
 
She is permitted to file in the Diocese where she lives now, or she can apply in the Diocese where HE lives or the Diocese where they were married.
 
I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that my Diocese sent all correspondence to the Diocese in which my ex resided (we are in separate states) - and then it went out from there. This would make sense to me, since I assume my Diocese does not have jurisdiction outside its own territory (again I could be mistaken).

I DO know that once witness testimony is gathered, both parties have a right to read the testimony as it is made available, on file, in the Diocese in which the parties reside. I don’t know how much of a paper trail it actually created with regards to being able to find out where the ex lives.

The ex must be contacted, as he has a right to participate in this process. Otherwise it would be like you being on trial, but not even knowing the trial was going on. However, the ex may choose not to participate, which is fine. The case will rest solely on her testimony and her witnesses, which could make reaching a decision harder since they don’t have both sides to the story.

FYI, my ex did not participate.
 
Her Diocese will contact his Diocese, and when they contact him it shouldn’t mention beyond ‘Ms X, formerly of Y in Z, is petitioning…’. No current address should be included, but if you want to be completely sure of that, just mention it when filing her case. Canon lawyers do take into account the situation, and if this ex is dangerous, they’ll make a note of that and be extra careful not to give out private details (they’re not allowed due to the data protection act, but again: better safe than sorry so mention it!)
 
Thank you all for your replies!

Our meeting with the priest last night went as well as it could have, I believe. He raised question as to whether what was performed was a convalidation or not. By my Fiancee’s description he says there is no way that it was a formal convalidation. It was performed by meeting with the priest once and a few days later having the “blessing” that I previously mentioned. In our current priest’s eyes that is not a convalidation. What he said muddies the waters is that there is documentation of some sort. He is going to request that documentation and see what was actually filed. He said based on the dates of the documentation and whether or not my Fiancee and the witnesses signed anything will mean a lot. What could be a problem is if the other priest just filled out paperwork and essentially forged the convalidation. He said that if that was the case he will write a formal letter describing what he has found and submit the supporting documents and make an argument that it was an invalid convalidation, made in haste, without preparation. If that is accepted then the marriage was never a part of the Catholic Church. What he fears is that because there is documentation of some form (and perhaps if my Fiancee did sign documents that she doesn’t remember signing, etc) that the Tribunal will just say “It’s a convalidation” and we’ll need the formal Annulment process. He said the process could take up to 2-3 years because of the surrounding circumstances.

We remain hopeful, yet afraid that this process will put our lives on hold. In the end it will be worth it, and we both realize this. We are leaving it in God’s hands, and the Church’s hands and pray for Their wisdom to guide them.

Again, thank you all!
 
Just take it one day at a time. Your priest sounds very competent in this area. Let him guide you.
 
1ke said:
Just take it one day at a time. Your priest sounds very competent in this area. Let him guide you.
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One day at a time indeed. Thank you for your support! I really really like our local priest. He seems like he fights pretty hard for his parishoners and he sees that I am making efforts through RCIA to convert and that my Fiancee is coming to him at the same time for guidance with the annulment in the right way. No quick fixes. We’re doing what it takes to make everything right with Holy Mother Church and with God. If it goes quickly, then great! If not, in the end it will all be worth it.

Thank you all again.
 
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