A dilemma of mine

[Shlomey]

Okay, so here goes.

I am discerning a vocation to the Dominican Order. Personally, my own wishes would lead me to a life that is opposed to God’s Will. I would pretty much be living a life of total violation of God’s Law if I were to follow my own will.
Now the other part of me is the one that has been very interested in the Church eversince.
These two parts have been in conflict within for years now. This conflict has lead me to doubts, agnosticism, atheism, etc.

I have returned to the Church (I never formally left the Church) due to a couple of reasons. I was then confronted with a thought that went to my mind: it was either I totally give up myself - since my desires would be against god - and live for God and obey Him or I live by my own will and then leave God.
Even during my time as an atheist, I found out that I could never really forget about my great interest in religion. It was something that pulled me back, no matter how hard I tried to go against it.

I started praying and hoped never to get an answer, so I could have an excuse to remain disobedient.
Anyhow, God answered.

One time I asked God to give me a clear revelation as to what He wants from me. A couple of signs did come. But I then tried to rationalize them away - as I often tend to do with my other experiences.
But - being full of doubts and uncertainty - I asked God for an even clearer revelation that I could not ignore.
Two days after the prayer, on a Sunday at work, the words “contemplata aliis tradere” kept shooting into my head. I knew the line from my elementary years in a Dominican private school. And I had no idea why - from the entire mission statement that we had to memorize - these 3 words kept coming to my mind.
I did realize though, that I liked sharing with others what I contemplate on a lot.
Anyhow, later that evening I found a video about Dominican vocation that I have never watched before. The first 7 seconds started with the words “contemplata aliis tradere” being shown accompanied by the words “in the end, the great gift is one’s own life.”

As I saw that, I got the creeps I understood the message.
That realization kinda scared, surprised and made me very happy at the same time. Pretty hard to explain.

Anyhow, my problem is: I am still being plagued by doubts, my selfish, sinful desires…

I think I am not worthy and I ask myself why God has not simply let go of me long time ago already…

peace

 

[navidad]

Okay, so here goes.

I am discerning a vocation to the Dominican Order. Personally, my own wishes would lead me to a life that is opposed to God’s Will. I would pretty much be living a life of total violation of God’s Law if I were to follow my own will.
Now the other part of me is the one that has been very interested in the Church eversince.
These two parts have been in conflict within for years now. This conflict has lead me to doubts, agnosticism, atheism, etc.

I have returned to the Church (I never formally left the Church) due to a couple of reasons. I was then confronted with a thought that went to my mind: it was either I totally give up myself - since my desires would be against god - and live for God and obey Him or I live by my own will and then leave God.
Even during my time as an atheist, I found out that I could never really forget about my great interest in religion. It was something that pulled me back, no matter how hard I tried to go against it.

I started praying and hoped never to get an answer, so I could have an excuse to remain disobedient.
Anyhow, God answered.

One time I asked God to give me a clear revelation as to what He wants from me. A couple of signs did come. But I then tried to rationalize them away - as I often tend to do with my other experiences.
But - being full of doubts and uncertainty - I asked God for an even clearer revelation that I could not ignore.
Two days after the prayer, on a Sunday at work, the words “contemplata aliis tradere” kept shooting into my head. I knew the line from my elementary years in a Dominican private school. And I had no idea why - from the entire mission statement that we had to memorize - these 3 words kept coming to my mind.
I did realize though, that I liked sharing with others what I contemplate on a lot.
Anyhow, later that evening I found a video about Dominican vocation that I have never watched before. The first 7 seconds started with the words “contemplata aliis tradere” being shown accompanied by the words “in the end, the great gift is one’s own life.”

As I saw that, I got the creeps I understood the message.
That realization kinda scared, surprised and made me very happy at the same time. Pretty hard to explain.

Anyhow, my problem is: I am still being plagued by doubts, my selfish, sinful desires…

I think I am not worthy and I ask myself why God has not simply let go of me long time ago already…

peace

Peace to you Shlomey.

Yours is a wonderful story. That fight between two parts of ourselves is very well known in our Christian Tradition, beginning with St. Paul as he speaks in his letters. But like him you have been blessed with some kind of personal encounter with God through circumstances and surprising synchronicities which speak so deeply to your soul’s desire. I’m sure that with prayer -contemplation- and the Grace of the Sacraments you will find the strength to listen to the part of you that knows and strives for Life, and overcome and dismiss the other part even though at times it might speak louder.

Your doubts point to intellectual curiosity which probably won’t be satisfied with just any response but only with serious study in a frame of prayer. This is very much what the Dominicans are about, that’s their Contemplare, and then to pass on to others what has been discovered and relished in contemplation.

May you respond with your whole enthusiasm and life to the priviledged call of the Hound of Heaven who will not give up on you because He gave everything for you to the last breath.

With joyful prayer for you and with you,
Navidad

 

[Cloisters]

Okay, so here goes.

I am discerning a vocation to the Dominican Order. Personally, my own wishes would lead me to a life that is opposed to God’s Will. I would pretty much be living a life of total violation of God’s Law if I were to follow my own will.
Now the other part of me is the one that has been very interested in the Church eversince.
These two parts have been in conflict within for years now. This conflict has lead me to doubts, agnosticism, atheism, etc.

I have returned to the Church (I never formally left the Church) due to a couple of reasons. I was then confronted with a thought that went to my mind: it was either I totally give up myself - since my desires would be against god - and live for God and obey Him or I live by my own will and then leave God.
Even during my time as an atheist, I found out that I could never really forget about my great interest in religion. It was something that pulled me back, no matter how hard I tried to go against it.

I started praying and hoped never to get an answer, so I could have an excuse to remain disobedient.
Anyhow, God answered.

One time I asked God to give me a clear revelation as to what He wants from me. A couple of signs did come. But I then tried to rationalize them away - as I often tend to do with my other experiences.
But - being full of doubts and uncertainty - I asked God for an even clearer revelation that I could not ignore.
Two days after the prayer, on a Sunday at work, the words “contemplata aliis tradere” kept shooting into my head. I knew the line from my elementary years in a Dominican private school. And I had no idea why - from the entire mission statement that we had to memorize - these 3 words kept coming to my mind.
I did realize though, that I liked sharing with others what I contemplate on a lot.
Anyhow, later that evening I found a video about Dominican vocation that I have never watched before. The first 7 seconds started with the words “contemplata aliis tradere” being shown accompanied by the words “in the end, the great gift is one’s own life.”

As I saw that, I got the creeps I understood the message.
That realization kinda scared, surprised and made me very happy at the same time. Pretty hard to explain.

Anyhow, my problem is: I am still being plagued by doubts, my selfish, sinful desires…

I think I am not worthy and I ask myself why God has not simply let go of me long time ago already…

peace

Have you read the Confessions of St. Augustine? Or “Saints Behaving Badly?” Both might ‘speak’ to you.

First, and foremost, get a spiritual director. If you can find a Dominican, that would be best.

What are you reading now?

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

Okay, so here goes.

I am discerning a vocation to the Dominican Order. Personally, my own wishes would lead me to a life that is opposed to God’s Will. I would pretty much be living a life of total violation of God’s Law if I were to follow my own will.
Now the other part of me is the one that has been very interested in the Church eversince.
These two parts have been in conflict within for years now. This conflict has lead me to doubts, agnosticism, atheism, etc.

I have returned to the Church (I never formally left the Church) due to a couple of reasons. I was then confronted with a thought that went to my mind: it was either I totally give up myself - since my desires would be against god - and live for God and obey Him or I live by my own will and then leave God.
Even during my time as an atheist, I found out that I could never really forget about my great interest in religion. It was something that pulled me back, no matter how hard I tried to go against it.

I started praying and hoped never to get an answer, so I could have an excuse to remain disobedient.
Anyhow, God answered.

One time I asked God to give me a clear revelation as to what He wants from me. A couple of signs did come. But I then tried to rationalize them away - as I often tend to do with my other experiences.
But - being full of doubts and uncertainty - I asked God for an even clearer revelation that I could not ignore.
Two days after the prayer, on a Sunday at work, the words “contemplata aliis tradere” kept shooting into my head. I knew the line from my elementary years in a Dominican private school. And I had no idea why - from the entire mission statement that we had to memorize - these 3 words kept coming to my mind.
I did realize though, that I liked sharing with others what I contemplate on a lot.
Anyhow, later that evening I found a video about Dominican vocation that I have never watched before. The first 7 seconds started with the words “contemplata aliis tradere” being shown accompanied by the words “in the end, the great gift is one’s own life.”

As I saw that, I got the creeps I understood the message.
That realization kinda scared, surprised and made me very happy at the same time. Pretty hard to explain.

Anyhow, my problem is: I am still being plagued by doubts, my selfish, sinful desires…

I think I am not worthy and I ask myself why God has not simply let go of me long time ago already…

peace

Yours is an incredible journey so far! In my mind, Jesus has some big plans for you because He has not let you fall by the wayside. Don’t give up on Him! He loves you so much, and know that I will be praying for your vocation.

Your intellectual ability may come in handy when you become a Dominican as Navidad said. If you are truly ready to hand over your own will, God’s gift will be so much greater!

I think all of us who are called to religious life feel unworthy more often than not, but it’s the end reward that keeps us going–Jesus Christ! I know I feel unworthy for being called to the Discalced Carmelites, but Jesus’ words inspired to give up everything I have and follow Him. It’s not about what I am losing, but what I am gaining. Try to focus more on the positive than the negative and your discernment will progress more smoothly.

Get your self a spiritual director if you don’t already have one. If the order you are considering is close to your house, or another Dominican order is (even if it’s nuns or sisters), ask them.

God bless you on your journey!

 

[Shlomey]

Peace to you Shlomey.

Yours is a wonderful story. That fight between two parts of ourselves is very well known in our Christian Tradition, beginning with St. Paul as he speaks in his letters. But like him you have been blessed with some kind of personal encounter with God through circumstances and surprising synchronicities which speak so deeply to your soul’s desire. I’m sure that with prayer -contemplation- and the Grace of the Sacraments you will find the strength to listen to the part of you that knows and strives for Life, and overcome and dismiss the other part even though at times it might speak louder.

Your doubts point to intellectual curiosity which probably won’t be satisfied with just any response but only with serious study in a frame of prayer. This is very much what the Dominicans are about, that’s their Contemplare, and then to pass on to others what has been discovered and relished in contemplation.

May you respond with your whole enthusiasm and life to the priviledged call of the Hound of Heaven who will not give up on you because He gave everything for you to the last breath.

With joyful prayer for you and with you,
Navidad

You have spoken boldly what I have been thinking about for some time already…

Thanks a lot for the response. I truly appreciate it.
God bless!

Have you read the Confessions of St. Augustine? Or “Saints Behaving Badly?” Both might ‘speak’ to you.

First, and foremost, get a spiritual director. If you can find a Dominican, that would be best.

What are you reading now?

Blessings,
Cloisters

I haven’t read any of those, I have to admit. I actually just stopped reading the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins as it got awefully boring…
As far as Saints behaving “badly”: I have been researching on the lives of Saints like St. Teresa of Avila, St. Jerome and St. Padre Pio. To my astonishment, these holy people were facing a lot of evil from within.

Thank you for the book recommendations!

Yours is an incredible journey so far! In my mind, Jesus has some big plans for you because He has not let you fall by the wayside. Don’t give up on Him! He loves you so much, and know that I will be praying for your vocation.

Your intellectual ability may come in handy when you become a Dominican as Navidad said. If you are truly ready to hand over your own will, God’s gift will be so much greater!

I think all of us who are called to religious life feel unworthy more often than not, but it’s the end reward that keeps us going–Jesus Christ! I know I feel unworthy for being called to the Discalced Carmelites, but Jesus’ words inspired to give up everything I have and follow Him. It’s not about what I am losing, but what I am gaining. Try to focus more on the positive than the negative and your discernment will progress more smoothly.

Get your self a spiritual director if you don’t already have one. If the order you are considering is close to your house, or another Dominican order is (even if it’s nuns or sisters), ask them.

God bless you on your journey!

There is a Dominican monastery in my state, but not in my city or the next. We recently got a new chaplain here though who seems to be a great person that can trust.
He is not a Dominican, but I trust him. I already called for an appointment with him tomorrow to discuss things.

Thank you so much for your reply and may God lead you to the place He has prepared only for you.

 

[Reepicheep]

Anyhow, my problem is: I am still being plagued by doubts, my selfish, sinful desires…

I think I am not worthy and I ask myself why God has not simply let go of me long time ago already…

peace

You fear you’re unworthy because of sinful desires that won’t go away?

The Epistle of Paul to the Romans, 5:15-25.

Paul the Apostle suffered the same doubts, fears, and temptations you do. Yet he became an Apostle, he wrote parts of the New Testament, he converted huge numbers of pagans to Christ, and he died a martyr.

It’s not about your faithfulness to Christ, Shlomey, it’s about His faithfulness to you. :dancing:

May the peace of Christ fill your heart forever. :harp:

I’ll pray for you.

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

There is a Dominican monastery in my state, but not in my city or the next. We recently got a new chaplain here though who seems to be a great person that can trust.
He is not a Dominican, but I trust him. I already called for an appointment with him tomorrow to discuss things.

Thank you so much for your reply and may God lead you to the place He has prepared only for you.

Awesome! Know that you have my full support. And thank you for your prayers! God bless you!

 

[Shlomey]

Thank you very much for the support

BTW: you should watch the movie: Padre Pio: really touching!

God bless and peace

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

Thank you very much for the support

BTW: you should watch the movie: Padre Pio: really touching!

God bless and peace

I just finished watching that this weekend. Isn’t it phenomenal? I was crying during several parts because I really would have liked to have known him here on earth, but, in God’s will, I will meet him in heaven! I have adopted him as one of my patron saints. Padre Pio, ora pro nobis!

 

[Shlomey]

I just finished watching that this weekend. Isn’t it phenomenal? I was crying during several parts because I really would have liked to have known him here on earth, but, in God’s will, I will meet him in heaven! I have adopted him as one of my patron saints. Padre Pio, ora pro nobis!

Same here, I had to cry on many occassions too What impressed me a lot was his humility. Although he was given the grace to partake in the sacred suffering of our Lord, he never stopped seing himself as a simple, poor friar who is also a sinner in need of God’s grace.

I would have loved to meet him too, but he lived before my time…

 

[Carmelite_to_be]

My dear,

I can relate to some of the things you said, but tell you now, that it is possible that you won’t feel fulfilled until you surrender to God’s Will.

Please look at these websites which I found so useful:

sspxasia.com/Documents/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X/Vocations/Vocations.htm

lafayettecarmelites.org/god_calling.php - partucularly on the ‘Struggle for Mastery’

When I got back from 2 weeks in Carmel as an Aspirant, I had so many doubts and temptations. But how I came to understand that they were not from God, was when I read that doubts from evil spirits tie you in knots and make you anxious.

I also had a deep sense of peace when I prayed about Carmel, helping me to know that this was for me. I leave in January.

Place all trust in God. He will give you true peace and joy if only you surrender to his Will.

If it helps you a little, please look at my blog: carmelaspirant.blogspot.com/

Good luck and God bless.

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

My dear,

I can relate to some of the things you said, but tell you now, that it is possible that you won’t feel fulfilled until you surrender to God’s Will.

Please look at these websites which I found so useful:

sspxasia.com/Documents/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X/Vocations/Vocations.htm

lafayettecarmelites.org/god_calling.php - partucularly on the ‘Struggle for Mastery’

When I got back from 2 weeks in Carmel as an Aspirant, I had so many doubts and temptations. But how I came to understand that they were not from God, was when I read that doubts from evil spirits tie you in knots and make you anxious.

I also had a deep sense of peace when I prayed about Carmel, helping me to know that this was for me. I leave in January.

Place all trust in God. He will give you true peace and joy if only you surrender to his Will.

If it helps you a little, please look at my blog: carmelaspirant.blogspot.com/

Good luck and God bless.

I understand exactly what you mean about having many doubts and temptations about your vocation. When I was on a vocation retreat this past summer with the Carmelite Sisters DCJ in St. Louis, MO, I began to think that since I wasn’t called to that particular order, I wasn’t called at all. How wrong I was! The devil tries to put many temptations and doubts in our path, but God lets him, hoping that we will accept these as crosses of humility and grow in love with Jesus. Also, doubts are part of our human weakness. We are not perfect in anything we do, so we must rely fully on Christ to fill up the holes. Don’t let these doubts get in your way!

I am constantly praying for faithful vocations to the priesthood, brotherhood, sisterhood, etc. If you accept the call, God will give you the graces necessary to fulfill His requests. All you must do is trust in Him!

 

[Shlomey]

My dear,

I can relate to some of the things you said, but tell you now, that it is possible that you won’t feel fulfilled until you surrender to God’s Will.

Please look at these websites which I found so useful:

sspxasia.com/Documents/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X/Vocations/Vocations.htm

lafayettecarmelites.org/god_calling.php - partucularly on the ‘Struggle for Mastery’

When I got back from 2 weeks in Carmel as an Aspirant, I had so many doubts and temptations. But how I came to understand that they were not from God, was when I read that doubts from evil spirits tie you in knots and make you anxious.

I also had a deep sense of peace when I prayed about Carmel, helping me to know that this was for me. I leave in January.

Place all trust in God. He will give you true peace and joy if only you surrender to his Will.

If it helps you a little, please look at my blog: carmelaspirant.blogspot.com/

Good luck and God bless.

Thanks for the sources!

Why the link to the SSPX though? Are they not schismatic?

I read there that I would have to want a celibate life. This seems rather opposing to human nature. I for one know that I personally would be sinful if it was up to me alone: the reason I would choose this is because of God.
For Him, I would deny myself as Jesus taught.

 

[Adoro_Te_Devote]

Thanks for the sources!

Why the link to the SSPX though? Are they not schismatic?

I read there that I would have to want a celibate life. This seems rather opposing to human nature. I for one know that I personally would be sinful if it was up to me alone: the reason I would choose this is because of God.
For Him, I would deny myself as Jesus taught.

The SSPX are schismatic, although it appears reconciliation is in the future.

However, that doesn’t mean that every bit of information they provide is incorrect. (I didn’t read the link, just commenting in general on that).

In any case…if you think you are called to a Dominican Order, unless you are planning to be a Third Order (i.e. Lay Dominican) and get married, celibacy is part of the Vocation.

Did you miss that particular point? Dominican Sisters, Nuns, Friars, and Priests are ALL celibate; they are giving themselves COMPLETELY to Our Lord.

The same is true for every religious Vocation that does not involve Matrimony.

You can live as a lay person and make promises as a Lay Dominican, but part of that life, if you are single, ALSO involves celibacy as sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin.

Where is your confusion on that point?

 

[Carmelite_to_be]

I had absolutely no idea about the SSPX.

 

[Shlomey]

The SSPX are schismatic, although it appears reconciliation is in the future.

However, that doesn’t mean that every bit of information they provide is incorrect. (I didn’t read the link, just commenting in general on that).

In any case…if you think you are called to a Dominican Order, unless you are planning to be a Third Order (i.e. Lay Dominican) and get married, celibacy is part of the Vocation.

Did you miss that particular point? Dominican Sisters, Nuns, Friars, and Priests are ALL celibate; they are giving themselves COMPLETELY to Our Lord.

The same is true for every religious Vocation that does not involve Matrimony.

You can live as a lay person and make promises as a Lay Dominican, but part of that life, if you are single, ALSO involves celibacy as sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin.

Where is your confusion on that point?

What gave you the idea that I am confused? I am pretty much aware of the celibacy part…were I not, I would not be thinking about joining a religious order, no?