A Diocese Smells the Coffee: Starts Planning for Decline of the Ordinary Form and Growth of the TLM

[CradleRC58]

I’m sure you have seen this mentioned…

Traditional Latin Mass a draw at St. Mary's on Broadway - Rhode Island Catholic

PROVIDENCE — Two months after it has started offering the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, St. Mary’s Church on Broadway is drawing more than 250 people to its two Sunday Masses. At the …

thericatholic.com

Example of a Bishop providing spiritual needs in cooperation with BXVI’s SP.

 

[CradleRC58]

Sure, some people find it helpful in their spiritual growth and there is nothing wrong with that, but the Church doesn’t need the Extraordinary Form anymore.

Maybe those people need it.

 

[CradleRC58]

No need for that type of dialogue back then. They didn’t have all the novelty.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

It is just in the nature of most all young teen males to not want to do something little girls are doing.

These young men come from a good Catholic family which in other ways are involved in the Church but I am sure these young men had no intention of being at the altar with little girls. I don’t blame these young men at all. It is what is happening in the Church that is keeping them in the pews rather than at the altar.

You are assuming they would want to be alter servers in the first place.

 

[Peeps]

Yesterday at my Novus Ordo parish there were two little girls about age 9 -10 at the altar serving and a mom doing the reading, all the while at least 5 young men from one family age 13 - 19 sat in the pews. These young men come from a good Catholic family which in other ways are involved in the Church but I am sure these young men had no intention of being at the altar with little girls. I don’t blame these young men at all. It is what is happening in the Church that is keeping them in the pews rather than at the altar. I see so few altar boys, when I do I usually rejoice.

Maybe it wasn’t their turn (the boys). Maybe on the schedule, the girls were scheduled for that day, and the boys the next day. Or maybe if there was no schedule, the little girls were the first to volunteer, and the priest accepted their offer.

Of maybe the boys aren’t interested in serving at altar. Perhaps they have another ministry in their parish (e.g., cantoring/music, volunteering to help with VBS and other ministries to smaller children, or helping their dad or granddad with the 'HoneyDo repair ministry).

Or it’s possible that the boys were there because their parents insist, but they don’t believe.

 

[Peeps]

If little girls are up there and no one is asking young men to be there instead, we have a problem.

Do you know this for a fact?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I’m sure you have seen this mentioned…

http://www.thericatholic.com/stories/traditional-latin-mass-a-draw-at-st-marys-on-broadway,10242

Example of a Bishop providing spiritual needs in cooperation with BXVI’s SP.

I have heard of this Mass, and am very pleased to know about it. I have never been to Rhode Island and I am long overdue a trip up that way.

Sure, some people find it helpful in their spiritual growth and there is nothing wrong with that, but the Church doesn’t need the Extraordinary Form anymore.

To say that the Church doesn’t need the EF anymore is just a statement of opinion, and everyone has opinions. Obviously Rome herself sees a need, otherwise she wouldn’t allow it. (Some say Quo primum binds the Church’s hands and canonizes this Mass for all time.)

 

[MagdalenaRita]

You are assuming they would want to be alter servers in the first place.

I am not assuming their hearts or minds or even God’s will for their lives. It was a general thought, not particularly meant about those young men, but young men in general are sitting in the pews while little girls are at the altar.

Maybe it wasn’t their turn (the boys)…

This is my home parish. We rarely have young men helping at the altar but as I said earlier, if we are not encouraging young men to the priesthood, then yes it is a problem.

Also as I said above, it wasn’t a comment aimed at these particular men. I don’t know their lives but just a general comment that young men are in the pews and little girls are at the altar.

Do you know this for a fact?

We need the Eucharist. We need priests to give us the Eucharist. We need young men to be trained in the faith. I hope we are all praying for priests and for our priests.

 

[CilladeRoma]

Of course I am praying for priests.
However, just because girls can also serve at the altar is no reason for boys to not. And that is what you implied, that boys won’t because girls do.
If that is true, those boys are going to have a very tough time living in the 21st century

 

[MagdalenaRita]

However, just because girls can also serve at the altar is no reason for boys to not. And that is what you implied, that boys won’t because girls do.

While I would agree that “just because” girls serve is no reason for boys not to, it is the nature of young high school boys to want to do things that are associated with being male and not something that is associated with young girls and there is nothing wrong with that as that is how they were created.

those boys are going to have a very tough time living in the 21st century

As I said above, it is not about those particular young men (I do not know their life story) but it is about young men in general. We have young men sitting in the pews while little girls are up at the altar.

It doesn’t matter if it is the 21st century or the 51st century. God calls men to the priesthood not young girls. We need to encourage that also.

Yes, thankfully some young men will serve no matter but it seems to be on the decrease.

God bless

 

[Mi_Rose]

In our church the only servers who continue into High School are boys. The girls drop out before then.

 

[Peeps]

It doesn’t matter if it is the 21st century or the 51st century. God calls men to the priesthood not young girls. We need to encourage that also.

Yes, God calls men to the priesthood.

I think that during the Latin Mass, the altar servers are definitely “on the path to priesthood” because of the nature of their service at the altar. They are speaking for the people and in so doing, they are assisting the priest in his preparation of Holy Communion. These boys have many hours of preparation and study to be altar servers, including memorizing of prayers in Latin.

But in the OF of the Mass, the altar servers are not speaking for the people, because the people speak for themselves. From what I know of the duties of an altar server at the OF Mass, they are basically servants–they bring Father what he needs and take away what he is finished with. They hold up the books and the candles at the ambo (Gospel reading), and they hold the patens during Holy Communion. Although all of these chores are helpful to Father as he consecrates the Bread and Wine and stands “in the Person of Christ,” it is something that can be done by anyone with a minimum of training. And it can and IS done by adults as well, both men and women, so it’s obviously not “priest preparation.” (Although several priests in our diocese answered the call to the priesthood after they were grown-up and in the working world!)

I’m probably pushing the analogy here, but I tend to the think of the story of Mary and Martha when Jesus visited their home. Mary sat with Jesus and listened to Him teach her, while Martha bustled about and did the work of preparing the meal. To me (and again, this is just my thinking, and not anything "orthodox Catholic!), the altar servers at the Extraordinary Form of the Mass are like Mary, reveling in being in the Very Presence of the Lord Jesus. The altar servers at the Ordinary Form of the Mass are like Martha, doing the “chores” involved with serving the Lord Jesus.

I realize that there are flaws in that anaology, mainly the fact that the altar servers at the Extraordinary Form of the Mass are not “choosing the better” as the Church teaches that BOTH forms of the Mass are legitimate and efficacious .

But think about the difference in the roles of the altar services in the two forms of the Mass, and it becomes obvious that in the Ordinary Form, altar-serving is not meant to help a server recognize the Call to the Priesthood. It’s just helping out, and anyone can do it.

In our parish, the priests do not train the altar servers. This training is done by the Minister of Liturgy and Music, who is a layman, not a priest.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I think that during the Latin Mass, the altar servers are definitely “on the path to priesthood” because of the nature of their service at the altar. They are speaking for the people and in so doing, they are assisting the priest in his preparation of Holy Communion. These boys have many hours of preparation and study to be altar servers, including memorizing of prayers in Latin.

But in the OF of the Mass, the altar servers are not speaking for the people, because the people speak for themselves. From what I know of the duties of an altar server at the OF Mass, they are basically servants–they bring Father what he needs and take away what he is finished with. They hold up the books and the candles at the ambo (Gospel reading), and they hold the patens during Holy Communion. Although all of these chores are helpful to Father as he consecrates the Bread and Wine and stands “in the Person of Christ,” it is something that can be done by anyone with a minimum of training. And it can and IS done by adults as well, both men and women, so it’s obviously not “priest preparation.”

But think about the difference in the roles of the altar services in the two forms of the Mass, and it becomes obvious that in the Ordinary Form, altar-serving is not meant to help a server recognize the Call to the Priesthood. It’s just helping out, and anyone can do it.

I agree there is a differerence in what the servers do at the different forms of the Mass and that in the OF the duties are much easier and do not take as much learning and pretty much anyone can do the serving at the OF, (not that they should but they could). I do not agree that it would not be preparation for the priesthood. It certainly can be and should be. It is proven that serving at the altar is one of the best ways to get young men interested in the priesthood.