A disappointing homily on Jonah

[japhy]

I attended Mass today during my lunch break. The First Reading today was from Jonah. Just as the Gospel was concluded, I was hoping to myself that the priest would not dismiss the book of Jonah as a fable.

He did. The first words out of his mouth were something like: “I hope I don’t disappoint any of you, but the book of Jonah isn’t true; it’s simply impossible.”

He said he had “done the math” a year or so ago and figured out that for a whale to have swum from near Spain (which is where Tarshish is believed to be) to near Nineveh (in modern day Iraq), the whale would need to swim at speeds over 200 MPH for three straight days. (Besides, he said, how would Jonah survive? How wouldn’t he be digested?) His math argument is based on the assumptions that the boat Jonah was on was traveling around the bottom of Africa and that the boat was most of the way there.

I’d like to examine this argument and its assumptions.

The shortest journey from the southwestern part of Spain, around Africa, and up through the Red Sea to the southern tip of Israel is approximately 12,000 miles. (The journey is about the same if we end in the Persian Gulf, for easier access to Nineveh, which was on the Tigris.) That distance can be traveled in 72 hours at a constant speed of about 170 MPH. Still pretty ambitious for a sea-monster, although if it were expending all its energy to make the journey, perhaps it could not spare any time for digestion! (That’s a joke.)

But the Scriptures do not say how far along in the journey the boat was nor that the whale brought Jonah to Nineveh.
But Jonah rose to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. He went down to Joppa and found a ship going to Tarshish; so he paid the fare, and went on board, to go with them to Tarshish, away from the presence of the LORD. But the LORD hurled a great wind upon the sea, and there was a mighty tempest on the sea, so that the ship threatened to break up. … And the LORD spoke to the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land. (Jonah 1:3-4; 2:10)We do not know where in the voyage Jonah was thrown overboard nor where the whale finally deposited him.

But we do know where Joppa was. Joppa was not a city on the Red Sea, but on the Mediterranean Sea! Jonah went from Geth-hepher to Joppa, a port city, to flee to Tarshish. Joppa is to the south of Geth-hepher, and Tarshish is to the west. Nineveh is to the north and east of Israel. The trip to Tarshish was over water; the journey to Nineveh would be over land. Jonah stowed away with a crowd; Jonah was called to go to Nineveh alone. Jonah’s acts were a sign of direct contradiction to the will of God.

jonah.bmk.ee/img/map.jpg

If Tarshish, then, was in southwestern Spain, there would be no need to travel around Africa, but rather between Africa and Europe; the journey from Joppa (near modern Tel Aviv) would have been around 2600 miles. That journey could be made in 72 hours going less than 40 MPH. Again, this assumes the crisis on the boat occurred near Tarshish and that the whale brought Jonah back to Joppa.

Let’s assume that the whale did deposit Jonah on the coast of Israel, whether at Joppa or further north near Gath-hepher (about 60 miles north-northeast of Joppa, near Nazareth) where Jonah was originally from. Then, perhaps — if the Scripture can be believed — Jonah was cast into the sea shortly into the journey, somewhere still to the east of Greece. That’s the scenario imagined below:

christianimagelibrary.com/image-bin/Public/014/01/014_01_0115_TH-Atlas_prev.jpg

So what’s the point of all this?

Why cast unneeded doubt on Sacred Scripture? What is more believable, that a man could survive in the belly of a whale for three days… or that a virgin could conceive and bear a child by the Holy Spirit, a child who is fully man and fully God, a child who would heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, turn water into wine, multiply bread and fish, and eventually die on a cross and be raised to new life on the third day, walk through closed doors, disappear from sight, and ascend into heaven and take his place at the right hand of God the Father Almighty?

I can believe both.

 

[Nita]

He said he had “done the math” a year or so ago and figured out that for a whale to have swum from near Spain (which is where Tarshish is believed to be) to near Nineveh (in modern day Iraq), the whale would need to swim at speeds over 200 MPH for three straight days.
…

Why cast unneeded doubt on Sacred Scripture? What is more believable, that a man could survive in the belly of a whale for three days… or that a virgin could conceive and bear a child by the Holy Spirit, a child who is fully man and fully God, a child who would heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, turn water into wine, multiply bread and fish, and eventually die on a cross and be raised to new life on the third day, walk through closed doors, disappear from sight, and ascend into heaven and take his place at the right hand of God the Father Almighty?

I can believe both.

Your priest makes some unfounded assumptions, to say the least!!
Scripture doesn’t say specifically how long they’d been at sea, but from what it does say, I’d guess they were a lot closer to Joppa than to Tarshish.
Jonah 1:13 Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring the ship back to land, …"
I checked the various definitions for the Greek word translated “back” in the above passage. They include: return, turn, turn around. Now, if they were closer to Tarshish than to Joppa, why would they turn around and try to row back to Joppa??

Second error he makes is to assume that the fish dropped Jonah close to Nineveh when there is nothing in Scripture to tell us where the fish deposited him. After coming to land, Jonah may well have gone back home, and Scripture doesn’t tell us where that is. (Probably somewhere north of Joppa since 1:3 says Jonah went “down” to Joppa…) Then, at some point God calls Jonah a “second time” to go to Nineveh. (Jonah 3:1)

Nita

 

[tobinatorstark]

I attended Mass today during my lunch break. The First Reading today was from Jonah. Just as the Gospel was concluded, I was hoping to myself that the priest would not dismiss the book of Jonah as a fable.

He did. The first words out of his mouth were something like: “I hope I don’t disappoint any of you, but the book of Jonah isn’t true; it’s simply impossible.”

He said he had “done the math” a year or so ago and figured out that for a whale to have swum from near Spain (which is where Tarshish is believed to be) to near Nineveh (in modern day Iraq), the whale would need to swim at speeds over 200 MPH for three straight days. (Besides, he said, how would Jonah survive? How wouldn’t he be digested?) His math argument is based on the assumptions that the boat Jonah was on was traveling around the bottom of Africa and that the boat was most of the way there.

I’d like to examine this argument and its assumptions.

The shortest journey from the southwestern part of Spain, around Africa, and up through the Red Sea to the southern tip of Israel is approximately 12,000 miles. (The journey is about the same if we end in the Persian Gulf, for easier access to Nineveh, which was on the Tigris.) That distance can be traveled in 72 hours at a constant speed of about 170 MPH. Still pretty ambitious for a sea-monster, although if it were expending all its energy to make the journey, perhaps it could not spare any time for digestion! (That’s a joke.)

But the Scriptures do not say how far along in the journey the boat was nor that the whale brought Jonah to Nineveh.
But Jonah rose to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. He went down to Joppa and found a ship going to Tarshish; so he paid the fare, and went on board, to go with them to Tarshish, away from the presence of the LORD. But the LORD hurled a great wind upon the sea, and there was a mighty tempest on the sea, so that the ship threatened to break up. … And the LORD spoke to the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land. (Jonah 1:3-4; 2:10)We do not know where in the voyage Jonah was thrown overboard nor where the whale finally deposited him.

But we do know where Joppa was. Joppa was not a city on the Red Sea, but on the Mediterranean Sea! Jonah went from Geth-hepher to Joppa, a port city, to flee to Tarshish. Joppa is to the south of Geth-hepher, and Tarshish is to the west. Nineveh is to the north and east of Israel. The trip to Tarshish was over water; the journey to Nineveh would be over land. Jonah stowed away with a crowd; Jonah was called to go to Nineveh alone. Jonah’s acts were a sign of direct contradiction to the will of God.

jonah.bmk.ee/img/map.jpg

If Tarshish, then, was in southwestern Spain, there would be no need to travel around Africa, but rather between Africa and Europe; the journey from Joppa (near modern Tel Aviv) would have been around 2600 miles. That journey could be made in 72 hours going less than 40 MPH. Again, this assumes the crisis on the boat occurred near Tarshish and that the whale brought Jonah back to Joppa.

Let’s assume that the whale did deposit Jonah on the coast of Israel, whether at Joppa or further north near Gath-hepher (about 60 miles north-northeast of Joppa, near Nazareth) where Jonah was originally from. Then, perhaps — if the Scripture can be believed — Jonah was cast into the sea shortly into the journey, somewhere still to the east of Greece. That’s the scenario imagined below:

christianimagelibrary.com/image-bin/Public/014/01/014_01_0115_TH-Atlas_prev.jpg

So what’s the point of all this?

Why cast unneeded doubt on Sacred Scripture? What is more believable, that a man could survive in the belly of a whale for three days… or that a virgin could conceive and bear a child by the Holy Spirit, a child who is fully man and fully God, a child who would heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, turn water into wine, multiply bread and fish, and eventually die on a cross and be raised to new life on the third day, walk through closed doors, disappear from sight, and ascend into heaven and take his place at the right hand of God the Father Almighty?

I can believe both.

Ouch why is this man a priest???

 

[COPLAND_3]

According to Josephus, Tharsis is the same as Tarsus, he says…

“Tharsis is the same as Tharsus. This was the name the ancients gave to Cilicia. So even today Tarsus, the most important city in the entire province, retains the ancient name, the Greek letter theta being altered to the Greek tau.”

Here is my view according to Josephus. I believe Tharsus is actually Tarsus. Here is my map litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Jonah+Map

For more info on Jonah here is a catena litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Jonah+Commentary

 

[japhy]

Scripture doesn’t say specifically how long they’d been at sea, but from what it does say, I’d guess they were a lot closer to Joppa than to Tarshish.
Jonah 1:13 Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring the ship back to land, …"
I checked the various definitions for the Greek word translated “back” in the above passage. They include: return, turn, turn around. Now, if they were closer to Tarshish than to Joppa, why would they turn around and try to row back to Joppa??

Thank you for pointing that out too! God is good (and you are observant)!

 

[japhy]

According to Josephus, Tharsis is the same as Tarsus.

Yeah, I saw the list of “candidates” for Tarshish.

Here is my view according to Josephus. I believe Tharsus is actually Tarsus. Here is my map litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Jonah+Map

Why such a circuitous route to get to Nineveh?

 

[japhy]

Ouch why is this man a priest???

It’s evident from what he says during Mass that he believes in the Real Presence; he replaces the “This is the Lamb of God…” with “This is really the Body and Blood of Jesus who gives himself to us as food, …”

He celebrates the liturgy in a way I’m rather uncomfortable with.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Why such a circuitous route to get to Nineveh?

That is according to Josephus, he seemed to believe that the whale took him that way and dropped him off above Nineveh at the Black Sea. That is probably an ancient Jewish traditional belief. I can buy that.

 

[mullenpm]

First, I take exception with your Priest who said the story of Jonah was impossible. Why would he feel it necessary to make that remark? It smacks of ego talking – “I know something you don’t know, ya, ya, ya.”

Second, the story does not say that Jonah was inside a whale - it says he was inside a “big fish.”

Third, God can do the impossible - in fact, he can do anything he wants to do and he wanted Jonah to re-think his decision to run away from the Lord. He gave him a second chance to go to Nineveh and deliver the message God gave him to deliver.

So, what is the problem here. God wanted it done and he made it happen.

 

[Strategery]

To me, it’s absolutely amazing that a priest is so willing to put worldly constraints on our triune God.

Here are some other things that are physically impossible:

Calming the sea
Walking on water
Raising people from the dead
Feeding 9K people with a total of 12 loaves and 3 fish
Raising yourself from the dead
Sending your invisible spirit to guide other people
Spitting on mud, putting it on someone’s eyes, and that person seeing.
Reading people’s minds.
Escaping from mobs of people with rocks trying to stone you (I always wonder how this went down. Was it disappearing like the corn in Field of Dreams, or did he juke them like Barry Sanders?)
Paying your tax by pulling a coin out of a fish’s stomach
Changing water to wine
Transubstantiation
Healing a guy that’s been crippled for 30 + years
Becoming a flash of light and knocking some dude named Saul of his horse
Talking storm clouds
Talking burning bush

…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I attended Mass today during my lunch break. The First Reading today was from Jonah. Just as the Gospel was concluded, I was hoping to myself that the priest would not dismiss the book of Jonah as a fable.

He did. The first words out of his mouth were something like: “I hope I don’t disappoint any of you, but the book of Jonah isn’t true; it’s simply impossible.”

He said he had “done the math” a year or so ago and figured out that for a whale to have swum from near Spain (which is where Tarshish is believed to be) to near Nineveh (in modern day Iraq), the whale would need to swim at speeds over 200 MPH for three straight days. (Besides, he said, how would Jonah survive? How wouldn’t he be digested?) His math argument is based on the assumptions that the boat Jonah was on was traveling around the bottom of Africa and that the boat was most of the way there.

I’d like to examine this argument and its assumptions.

The shortest journey from the southwestern part of Spain, around Africa, and up through the Red Sea to the southern tip of Israel is approximately 12,000 miles. (The journey is about the same if we end in the Persian Gulf, for easier access to Nineveh, which was on the Tigris.) That distance can be traveled in 72 hours at a constant speed of about 170 MPH. Still pretty ambitious for a sea-monster, although if it were expending all its energy to make the journey, perhaps it could not spare any time for digestion! (That’s a joke.)

But the Scriptures do not say how far along in the journey the boat was nor that the whale brought Jonah to Nineveh.
But Jonah rose to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. He went down to Joppa and found a ship going to Tarshish; so he paid the fare, and went on board, to go with them to Tarshish, away from the presence of the LORD. But the LORD hurled a great wind upon the sea, and there was a mighty tempest on the sea, so that the ship threatened to break up. … And the LORD spoke to the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land. (Jonah 1:3-4; 2:10)
We do not know where in the voyage Jonah was thrown overboard nor where the whale finally deposited him.

But we do know where Joppa was. Joppa was not a city on the Red Sea, but on the Mediterranean Sea! Jonah went from Geth-hepher to Joppa, a port city, to flee to Tarshish. Joppa is to the south of Geth-hepher, and Tarshish is to the west. Nineveh is to the north and east of Israel. The trip to Tarshish was over water; the journey to Nineveh would be over land. Jonah stowed away with a crowd; Jonah was called to go to Nineveh alone. Jonah’s acts were a sign of direct contradiction to the will of God.

jonah.bmk.ee/img/map.jpg

If Tarshish, then, was in southwestern Spain, there would be no need to travel around Africa, but rather between Africa and Europe; the journey from Joppa (near modern Tel Aviv) would have been around 2600 miles. That journey could be made in 72 hours going less than 40 MPH. Again, this assumes the crisis on the boat occurred near Tarshish and that the whale brought Jonah back to Joppa.

Let’s assume that the whale did deposit Jonah on the coast of Israel, whether at Joppa or further north near Gath-hepher (about 60 miles north-northeast of Joppa, near Nazareth) where Jonah was originally from. Then, perhaps — if the Scripture can be believed — Jonah was cast into the sea shortly into the journey, somewhere still to the east of Greece. That’s the scenario imagined below:

christianimagelibrary.com/image-bin/Public/014/01/014_01_0115_TH-Atlas_prev.jpg

So what’s the point of all this?

Why cast unneeded doubt on Sacred Scripture? What is more believable, that a man could survive in the belly of a whale for three days… or that a virgin could conceive and bear a child by the Holy Spirit, a child who is fully man and fully God, a child who would heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, turn water into wine, multiply bread and fish, and eventually die on a cross and be raised to new life on the third day, walk through closed doors, disappear from sight, and ascend into heaven and take his place at the right hand of God the Father Almighty?

I can believe both.

He’s not “casting doubt on Scripture” - he’s casting doubt on the interpretation of the book as historical; which is something entirely different. If the book is a satirical tale rather than being an historical narrative, then it is a mistake to take it as being an historical narrative. “What God can do” is not the point - God might be as Omnipotent as you could ask for, but issures of Divine Omnipotence do not solve questions about what sort of text a piece of literature is: they are two unrelated issues, & the answer to one is not the answer to the other.​

 

[jcrichton]

I attended Mass… The First Reading today was from Jonah. Just as the Gospel was concluded, I was hoping to myself that the priest would not dismiss the book of Jonah as a fable.

He did. The first words out of his mouth were something like: “I hope I don’t disappoint any of you, but the book of Jonah isn’t true; it’s simply impossible.”

He said he had “done the math” a year or so ago and figured out that for a whale to have swum from near Spain (which is where Tarshish is believed to be) to near Nineveh (in modern day Iraq), the whale would need to swim at speeds over 200 MPH for three straight days. (Besides, he said, how would Jonah survive? How wouldn’t he be digested?) His math argument is based on the assumptions that the boat Jonah was on was traveling around the bottom of Africa and that the boat was most of the way there.

I’d like to examine this argument and its assumptions.

The shortest journey from the southwestern part of Spain, around Africa, and up through the Red Sea to the southern tip of Israel is approximately 12,000 miles. (The journey is about the same if we end in the Persian Gulf, for easier access to Nineveh, which was on the Tigris.) That distance can be traveled in 72 hours at a constant speed of about 170 MPH. Still pretty ambitious for a sea-monster, although if it were expending all its energy to make the journey, perhaps it could not spare any time for digestion! (That’s a joke.)

But the Scriptures do not say how far along in the journey the boat was nor that the whale brought Jonah to Nineveh.
But Jonah rose to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. He went down to Joppa and found a ship going to Tarshish; so he paid the fare, and went on board, to go with them to Tarshish, away from the presence of the LORD. But the LORD hurled a great wind upon the sea, and there was a mighty tempest on the sea, so that the ship threatened to break up. … And the LORD spoke to the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land. (Jonah 1:3-4; 2:10)We do not know where in the voyage Jonah was thrown overboard nor where the whale finally deposited him.

But we do know where Joppa was. Joppa was not a city on the Red Sea, but on the Mediterranean Sea! Jonah went from Geth-hepher to Joppa, a port city, to flee to Tarshish. Joppa is to the south of Geth-hepher, and Tarshish is to the west. Nineveh is to the north and east of Israel. The trip to Tarshish was over water; the journey to Nineveh would be over land. Jonah stowed away with a crowd; Jonah was called to go to Nineveh alone. Jonah’s acts were a sign of direct contradiction to the will of God.

jonah.bmk.ee/img/map.jpg

If Tarshish, then, was in southwestern Spain, there would be no need to travel around Africa, but rather between Africa and Europe; the journey from Joppa (near modern Tel Aviv) would have been around 2600 miles. That journey could be made in 72 hours going less than 40 MPH. Again, this assumes the crisis on the boat occurred near Tarshish and that the whale brought Jonah back to Joppa.

Let’s assume that the whale did deposit Jonah on the coast of Israel, whether at Joppa or further north near Gath-hepher (about 60 miles north-northeast of Joppa, near Nazareth) where Jonah was originally from. Then, perhaps — if the Scripture can be believed — Jonah was cast into the sea shortly into the journey, somewhere still to the east of Greece. That’s the scenario imagined below:

christianimagelibrary.com/image-bin/Public/014/01/014_01_0115_TH-Atlas_prev.jpg

So what’s the point of all this?

Why cast unneeded doubt on Sacred Scripture? What is more believable, that a man could survive in the belly of a whale for three days… or that a virgin could conceive and bear a child by the Holy Spirit, a child who is fully man and fully God, a child who would heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, turn water into wine, multiply bread and fish, and eventually die on a cross and be raised to new life on the third day, walk through closed doors, disappear from sight, and ascend into heaven and take his place at the right hand of God the Father Almighty?

I can believe both.

… the problem your “Priest” has is that he is losing Faith and is reaching for “reason.”

Which Bible version claims that Yahweh God sent a whale to swallow Jonah?.. even your own quoted passage specifies “fish.”

From some of the National Geographic and other nature shows I’ve learned that there are monsters in the deep oceans so it is not far-fetched that a huge fish could have swallowed Jonah–something other than a whale!

Where does this “Priest” think that the Holy Spirit was when Jonah was going through that particular experience?

If he doubts one portion of Scripture, is he not doubting all Scripture?

If the Holy Spirit could not have orchestrated Jonah’s fishy adventure, would He also have failed to do all of the others?:

• Jesus walking on water, reaching the ship which had left Him on land, calming the wind and the sea, feeding the masses, healing, casting evil spirits, forgiving sin, Resurrecting, appearing to the Eleven behind locked doors, vanishing at Emmaus, His multiple apparitions, His Ascension, the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, Philip vanishing at the Ethiopian official’s endoctrination…

There are more OT and NT examples (where physical and temporal laws were broken by God Who is Spirit) which this “Priest” should consider before he attempts to make Jesus a liar!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

He’s not “casting doubt on Scripture” - he’s casting doubt on the interpretation of the book as historical; which is something entirely different. If the book is a satirical tale rather than being an historical narrative, then it is a mistake to take it as being an historical narrative. “What God can do” is not the point - God might be as Omnipotent as you could ask for, but issures of Divine Omnipotence do not solve questions about what sort of text a piece of literature is: they are two unrelated issues, & the answer to one is not the answer to the other.​

But he is not arguing literary modals; he stated that it is imposible for the circumstances to have happened as revealed by Scriptures–since Scriptures were Inspired by the Holy Spirit that “Priest” is judging the ability of the Holy Spirit!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[firstmode]

Jonah: A plausibility study

1. Are there “great fish” large enough to swallow a man whole?
   * Of course! Keep in mind that modern animal classification systems weren’t exactly in use at the time of Jonah. Any aquatic creature could be referred to as a “fish.” And we know that there are whales (blue and sperm) and even sharks (great white and whale sharks) that can swallow a man whole. The sperm whale grows to a length of up to 70 feet. Its esophagus is approximately 50 cm (20") wide and “sperm whales don’t have to chew their food - so Jonah could have been swallowed whole.” 2 Two marine scientists from Sea World in San Diego hypothesize that it was a great white shark that probably swallowed Jonah.2
2. Could someone survive three days and three nights in a whale’s belly?
   * This is the difficult part of the question. There are fish species that surface from the sea and gulp down air into their lungs, like the lungfish for example. But there is no explanation for how air might have been transferred to the stomach.
3. What about the digestive juices?
   * The Encarta Encyclopedia reports, “When whales swallow food, it travels through the esophagus to a multi-chambered stomach that resembles the stomachs of ruminant hoofed animals such as cattle, sheep and deer. In the first stomach chamber, a saclike extension of the esophagus, food is crushed. In the second chamber, digestive juices further break down food.” 3 If Jonah remained in this first chamber, he only needed to be worried about being crushed rather than digested! Sharks, however, have a much slower metabolism and a human body could last three days without deterioration.2
4. What about other stories?
   * There are a number of stories that have been around for over 100 years about whales swallowing men whole. Perhaps the most famous is the story of James Bartley, a whaler on the vessel Star of the East, who reportedly was swallowed by a whale and survived. However, there are a number of questions as to the authenticity of this story, and it should not be used as a “proof” of any kind (just Google “James Bartley” and you’ll see what we mean).

The bottom line:

1. God needed to discipline a runaway prophet.
2. God did prepare a “great fish” aquatic creature.
3. God brought the runaway prophet and the “great fish” together for His glory and the salvation of a large city.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Another consideration is that 3 days in Jewish terminology was not 72 hrs. as we think today. Just as Jesus was in the tomb for perhaps 38 hrs. and yet was reckoned as 3 days, so too could Jonah’s intestine adventure.

 

[Strategery]

… the problem your “Priest” has is that he is losing Faith and is reaching for “reason.”

I don’t think there’s any reason to put Priest in quotes. The man is indeed a priest, ordained by God. This particular incident doesn’t change that.

 

[patg]

Maybe the priest should not have said that the story was “impossible” but it is certainly very acceptable to interpret this story as fiction used as a vehicle for revelation. That is clearly what the literary form of the story indicates is a correct view.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Maybe the priest should not have said that the story was “impossible” but it is certainly very acceptable to interpret this story as fiction used as a vehicle for revelation. That is clearly what the literary form of the story indicates is the correct view.

That would be so much easier to believe, if it wasn’t for the fact the Jesus himself referred to this story more than once, and compared it to real events. Just as the people of Nineveh really did repent, so too would they rise up at the last judgment and condemn the generation in the time of Jesus. Just as the sign of Jonah was his 3 days in the belly of the fish, so too would the body of Jesus be shut up in the tomb for 3 days. I also have trouble with the idea that 2000 and more years of continuous tradition and belief is all suddenly overturned, because now we have science and textual criticism. I can understand the need for science and textual criticism for interpreting difficult places in Scripture, but NOT in order to make Scripture acceptable to science.

 

[patg]

That would be so much easier to believe, if it wasn’t for the fact the Jesus himself referred to this story more than once, and compared it to real events.

It is perfectly reasonable for anyone (including Jesus) to refer to a well known story (fictional or not) as an example when they are teaching. The fictional nature of the story has nothing to do with its use a teaching tool and referring to it as an example while teaching in no way makes a statement as to its fictional/historical nature.

If I tell my child that if he doesn’t stick to the task, he might end up losing like the hare did when racing the tortoise, I am not telling him that there was a real race between the two animals nor am I telling a lie. Rather, I am using a familiar fictional story to make a teaching point.

I also have trouble with the idea that 2000 and more years of continuous tradition and belief is all suddenly overturned, because now we have science and textual criticism. I can understand the need for science and textual criticism for interpreting difficult places in Scripture, but NOT in order to make Scripture acceptable to science.

You are free to believe as the spirit leads you but there is no “Dogma of Jonah” and there is no reason to believe it is a historical event. An analysis of the story reveals how unlikely it would be for any ancient Jewish readers to have thought it to be other than fiction.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

patg:

You are free to believe as the spirit leads you but there is no “Dogma of Jonah” and there is no reason to believe it is a historical event. An analysis of the story reveals how unlikely it would be for any ancient Jewish readers to have thought it to be other than fiction.

That sort of flies in the face of Josephus, a noted ancient Jewish Historian giving his explanation of the route the whale took to deliver Jonah.

But you are free to dismiss anything you want from Scripture as a pedantic fable, except for what the Catholic Church teaches, so that should give you plenty of leeway. Enjoy