Not at my Traditional Latin Mass parish. People make a thanksgiving afterwards for a while. Some stay for a half hour or longer.
Hi, Lisa. I hope you will stay in the Church long enough to help us work toward reform of the reform. The Pope is working toward that too. But it is not his job to crack the whip and force Catholics to do right. That is not the way the Church works. And, of course, we want to work by the guidance of the Holy Spirit to do what the Lord wants us to do. I don’t believe the Lord expects us or the Pope to charge into a church with liturgical guns blazin’, as it were, forcing people to worship the right way or else.
Thank you Hyacinth II - great talk.
And thanks Monica for your supportive words.
I agree.The whole band in the Sanctuary thing is SO troubling to me. It’s really reminiscent of an evangelical church, where the band “leads worship” and the pastor merely delivers the “message” and prays spontaneously. The whole service is set up like a concert. The people are there to be entertained.
This is not what Catholic Mass is about. The Mass is a sacrifice. We are there to prostrate our selves and make a sacrifice to God. In bastardized versions of the Mass like the one the OP experienced, as well as in evangelical services, the people are there to take from God, not give to Him. This so-called “worship” is merely self-serving mush. The band is in the front because people need a hook to keep them in church. There are no kneelers because apparently if we’re all “saved” we don’t need to throw ourselves at God’s feet.
OP, I’m so sorry that as a new convert, this is the type of Mass you are experiencing. Just know that this is liturgical abuse we’re talking about. This isn’t how it’s supposed to be. There are still priests who make efforts to keep the NO as traditional as possible by eliminating contemporary bologna and promoting a reverent, pious worship environment. If you’re going to attend an NO Mass, keep your ears peeled for Latin in the Mass (esp. the Kyrie, the Sanctus, and the Angus Dei). A priest who encourages the use of Latin in an English Mass is a priest you should stick with, imho.
Pax
Lisa:
ProVobis:
Josh:
You are welcome. You can download Bee3 podcasts for Free from this site:Thank you Hyacinth II - great talk.
And thanks Monica for your supportive words.
Hi Michael,
Michael, I tried to put a smiley face in my last post and it wouldn’t work so here’s a for you.Michael, thanks so much for clearing that up for us. Such a pleasure to read the words of one who has the insider’s knowledge. How long have you been directly involved with the negotiations between the Society and the Holy See?
There were problems before Vatican II but I don’t think they really compare to the Problems that have been happening in the Catholic Church since Vatican II. Christians failed to resist Hitler but we Christians of today have failed to resist the Left and their crime of mass murder, abortion.
Sounds like a group of crazy Franciscans to me!Hi
I went to a Mass last weekend and it was so disturbing. It was in a very old church in a very old parish run by Fransiscans. My husband and I were very uncomfortable but I did stay the whole Mass. Firstly, there were no kneelers. Secondly, there was a band seated in the area (sorry, I’m a new convert I dont know the terms so bear with me…) at the back of the church behind the lecturn and infront of the tabernacle. The members of the band were very casually dressed. Most of the people in the church were extremely casually dressed to the point of seeing women with VERY low cut tops, mini skirts…jeans, shorts t-shirts…the works.
Anyways…before the Mass started the Priest formed a circle with those in the band up in the area mentioned above. The held hands and prayed together.
I can’t list everything that happened, mostly it was the usual things, a lot of singing and guitar playing and I can critique the Mass well as I am not knowledgable enough to know the various parts well. But it was like a typical ‘variation’ of the NO Mass.
Anyways, I just couldn’t wait for it to be over. At the very end, the Priest gave the (gold vessel with the Eucharist in it) to a female in the band behind him who was dressed in a SKIN TIGHT polyester shirt and pants. This lady then turned around to put the vessel into the tabernacle, and as she did so she leaned and bent over to reach to the tabernacle exposing her bottom in skin tight pale coloured pants to the whole congregation.
It was just such an obscene sight I just almost felt ill. It was really unbelievable.
Now, this is where I get REALLY angry. You know, as a new convert I’m told I must be SOOO obedient to the Pope and the church, and not even criticize it when the Pope says we worship together with the Muslims. And YET, what the HECK is going on in the Catholic Church??? IF it is supposed to be SOOO righteous and SOOO Holy then what in God’s name is going on? (I’m not using the Lords name in vain I mean what I said).
This makes me so mad and to be honest, it makes me really wonder if I shouldn’t convert to the Orthodox church. If Catholic Priests are allowing the Mass to degenerate into a total disgrace then I am ashamed to be called a Catholic.
Hi, Lisa. The SSPX folks haven’t been punished for using the traditional Latin Mass, not by Rome anyway. It is confusing and I can only offer you a little light on the matter. But it seems that there are folks who listen to Rome and try to do what the Church expects of them and stay in union with the Church. And then there are those who think that rebellion is the way to go. Using a traditional Latin Mass is not rebellion and Latin has never been suppressed by the Church, to my knowledge. However, refusing to abide by the Church’s teachings is rebellion. And that rebellion is what draws down the censure of Rome. Still Rome does not take a high-handed approach and try to whip people into line. That is not the way of the Church because it is not the way of her Lord.
Hi, Lisa. The SSPX folks haven’t been punished for using the traditional Latin Mass, not by Rome anyway. It is confusing and I can only offer you a little light on the matter. But it seems that there are folks who listen to Rome and try to do what the Church expects of them and stay in union with the Church. And then there are those who think that rebellion is the way to go. Using a traditional Latin Mass is not rebellion and Latin has never been suppressed by the Church, to my knowledge. However, refusing to abide by the Church’s teachings is rebellion. And that rebellion is what draws down the censure of Rome. Still Rome does not take a high-handed approach and try to whip people into line. That is not the way of the Church because it is not the way of her Lord.
Hi Disciple96,
You don’t think excommunication is a "high-handed’ approach?
Maybe the church doesn’t want to repeat the mistakes it made with the SSPX so it is not censuring the modernistic Priests who change the liturgy to suit themselves. Still, I hardly think continuing with tradition = inventing new liturgies, in terms of abuse. The SSPX seem less abusive to the faith then the modern innovators. But I could be wrong.
It’s funny to me, but people outside the Church always talk about how authoritarian it is, with the Pope there to tell everybody what to do and think and how to act, but it isn’t that way at all.
No?
And then when we convert (yes, I’m a convert too), we bring with us all these ideas about how things should be. It takes a while to let go of that kind of thinking and to truly develop a Catholic worldview and a Catholic way of thinking.
What is a Catholic worldview?
Believe me, it takes time, more than months and more than even a few years. I’ve been working at this for 15 years now, been Catholic for 13 years and feel like I am still beginning. Give yourself time, give yourself to prayer, study and reflection. And be patient. Rome does not act before she absolutely needs to and never without being absolutely sure the Holy Spirit is leading her to. Haste makes waste, you know. And when you’re responsible for people’s eternal souls, you don’t want to rush in and make terrible, tragic mistakes which have consequences far beyond those that are easily foreseen or imagined.
Indeed.
(It also helps to keep this in mind: a traditional Latin Mass is not necessarily the same thing as a traditionalist Latin Mass. Give yourself time to learn about these things too. And in the meantime, keep praying and attending Mass. Get involved in parish life and volunteer to help out in music and worship committees. But don’t forget to pray that the Holy Spirit uses you to do His will in His good time. Because what we want, ultimately, is what God wants. The rest is distraction and serves no one’s best interests but the enemy’s.
You lost me. Our parish has no music, which I am grateful for. There is another parish nearby that has many kinds of music played throughout the Mass but I prefer silence and there is too much hand holding and hand shaking for me.)
Why because the majority of Catholic clergy and laity don’t follow tradition anyway. You would loose about 75% of your church. Sad isn’t it. The damage is done!. And yes I do blame Vatican 2, and always will. Especially the clerics responsible for changing the Mass in the first place. The Council of Trent (Vatican 1) was the last official council in my book. It will take several Papacies before things turn right again. Provided they are all conservative and traditionally minded Popes. Even Padre Pio warned about the Council. The SSPX bishops have been “Un-Excommunicated” thanks to Pope Benedict XVI. You may want to start looking East!. This battle may extend to way beyond our lifetime.