A divorced man becomes a priest-what!

[DebChris]

JMT still is married. His is a rather unusual form of monasticism.

As for the thread topic, nobody here knows the story. It’s one thing if man gets an annullment after having proven that he was having an affair with another even before the wedding, thus demonstrating defective intent. It’s quite another thing to say he ha no business in the priesthood if it was his putative wife who had the defective consent. How about we just admit that we don’t have all the facts and trust the bishop to know what he’s doing?

I did not know the specifics regarding JMT. I knew only that his situation has been described as “resolved” allowing him to live a monastic life. I did want to move the OP away from the judgmental position with he was struggling.
There is much heart break when a family is broken. We do not know how much effort either partner made to tried to keep the relationship intact, or whether or not there were others involved. The tribunal ruled leaving the man free to enter seminary.

 

[Cider]

So? I’m not sure what the big deal is. It’s allowed. We had a great seminarian at my old parish that was once married. If God called someone to his service it’s not my place to judge that, when the Church allows it.

 

[manualman]

The Church says he was never objectively married in the first place, that’s what an annulment is. He could have had a brace of children and it still would not have been a marriage. Which means he was a single man at the time of his ordination. If he’s otherwise qualified to be a priest, who am I to protest to my bishop?

Even if the defect was on his part, people change. Among the Calendar of Saints we have former terrorists, someone who sired a child out of wedlock, and so on. But they were no less saints because of their pasts.

I don’t think it’s that simple. The OP isn’t totally in left field. Historically, there have been a LOT of sins that were judged to make men ineligible for the priesthoood, regardless of later repentance. It’s not that they can’t be forgiven, but that sins have real effects and do real damage. Ordination is nobody’s right and as anybody that reads news knows, bishops need to be careful who they ordain. As catholics, we know that confession removes the guilt for sins, but it doesn’t obliterate the temporal effects of sin, right?

I personally suspect that the defect wasn’t on his side, but I also suspect that nobody will ever tell us about it!

 

[styrgwillidar]

I want to thank everyone for their reply to my question and appreciate your thoughts. But I guess I hold the position of being a priest too high for someone who has been divorced, has children and then has this “awakening!”

A widower has been loyal and faithful to his family, at least on the surface, is palpable to me, who then becomes a priest. I’m not passing judgment on anyone. But this person is taking on the most sacred vocation one could ever possibly think of and to dilute it down, to me, cheapens Christ.

What this says to me is, that anyone can get divorced have children and then get an annulment, and in my parish it is quite common to get an annulment. I live in a vey liberal archdiocese and it is not that uncommon. The person I talk may be a very good and honorable man, it’s not a sex thing or having children. It’s all about vows and when a man and women make them in, I’m assuming here, a sacramental marriage before God, I believe it’s for life!

Well, I guess it’s God’s decision on when he calls someone to a vocation. How can there be an ‘awakening’ if it God’s call didn’t come until after the divorce and declaration of nullity?

Perhaps, in God’s plan the children from that marriage needed to exist- despite it’s validity. God needed that specific man and that specific woman under those conditions to come together so those people could exist in this world, with the attributes God wanted them to have. Or, perhaps God is taking advantage of a situation to utilize the skills, abilities and experience that man has to further God’s plan for others down the road.

I really don’t like the terminology ‘receive an annulment’, ‘grant an annulment’ ‘ask for an annulment’ get a marriage annuled. It implies that the church takes an action to invalidate a marriage when nothing could be further than the truth.

The church provide a declaration of nullity. A statement that no marriage ever existed. The man was never married sacramentally. Ever. Whatever the circumstances or fault, despite vows having been taken, there was never a valid marriage.

ETA: As a divorced man who has lived celibately since my wife chose to leave, is raising my kids as a single Dad, has followed the Church’s teachings on living as if still married until/if the Church declares my marriage null- I find it odd that you would hold I am being any less faithful to my marriage and family than a widower.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Well, I guess it’s God’s decision on when he calls someone to a vocation. How can there be an ‘awakening’ if it God’s call didn’t come until after the divorce and declaration of nullity?

Perhaps, in God’s plan the children from that marriage needed to exist- despite it’s validity. God needed that specific man and that specific woman under those conditions to come together so those people could exist in this world, with the attributes God wanted them to have. Or, perhaps God is taking advantage of a situation to utilize the skills, abilities and experience that man has to further God’s plan for others down the road.

I really don’t like the terminology ‘receive an annulment’, ‘grant an annulment’ ‘ask for an annulment’ get a marriage annuled. It implies that the church takes an action to invalidate a marriage when nothing could be further than the truth.

The church provide a declaration of nullity. A statement that no marriage ever existed. The man was never married sacramentally. Ever. Whatever the circumstances or fault, despite vows having been taken, there was never a valid marriage.

ETA: As a divorced man who has lived celibately since my wife cose to leave, is raising my kids as a single Dad, has followed the Church’s teachings on living as if still married until/if the Church declares my marriage null- I find it odd that you would hold I am being any less faithful to my marriage and family than a widower.

 

[DebChris]

…
ETA: As a divorced man who has lived celibately since my wife chose to leave, is raising my kids as a single Dad, has followed the Church’s teachings on living as if still married until/if the Church declares my marriage null- I find it odd that you would hold I am being any less faithful to my marriage and family than a widower.

I wanted to avoid saying too much about my personal situation. Like 85% of divorced couples, I never sought an annulment. After all these years of living life as a single person, I can now call myself widowed. My husband died in September.
You have illustrated the point that I have trying to make throughout this thread. We are not privy to another person’s life, to the efforts being made to keep the door open to reconciliation in the case of a Sacramentally valid marriage. There is always a second party, at least, involved.

 

[coachdennis]

I want to thank everyone for their reply to my question and appreciate your thoughts. But I guess I hold the position of being a priest too high for someone who has been divorced, has children and then has this “awakening!”

A widower has been loyal and faithful to his family, at least on the surface, is palpable to me, who then becomes a priest. I’m not passing judgment on anyone. But this person is taking on the most sacred vocation one could ever possibly think of and to dilute it down, to me, cheapens Christ.

What this says to me is, that anyone can get divorced have children and then get an annulment, and in my parish it is quite common to get an annulment. I live in a vey liberal archdiocese and it is not that uncommon. The person I talk may be a very good and honorable man, it’s not a sex thing or having children. It’s all about vows and when a man and women make them in, I’m assuming here, a sacramental marriage before God, I believe it’s for life!

You have made yourself judge and jury greater than the a marriage tribunal of the Catholic Church without knowing any of the details, which are, by the way none of your business.

 

[LoveMercyGrace]

Are you assuming that it was his fault that he was divorced?

And a person doesn’t just “get” an annulment. One must go through a process that makes running a gauntlet down the street naked seem easy.

Just remember, St. Peter had a mother-in-law…

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

You have made yourself judge and jury greater than the a marriage tribunal of the Catholic Church without knowing any of the details, which are, by the way none of your business.

This is true. This is exactly what Paul is doing. Jesus says do not judge. He will judge, because He knows everything. But Judgement Day is not here yet. Meantime, He has entrusted His Holy Catholic Church to judge some things, like, whether a sin is forgiven or not, and whether that priest’s former marraige was valid. And He stands by the judgement of the Church on these things. And all of Heaven* agreed *when the tribunal decided on that man’s previous marraige. Because that’s what Jesus entrusted to His apostles, when He said, what you agree on earth will be agreed with in Heaven. So that priest was free to marry, or have a vocation, since in the eyes of the Church and *of God, *he had never been married.

It might not seem okay to you Paul but you must accept it in humble obedience. Gods ways are not our ways.

 

[Irishgal49]

He never was married though. So what’s the problem?

Widowers are also allowed. If the annulment was granted and his kids are grown I don’t understand what is the problem. I would like that because I am divorced (an annulled) and it would be so helpful to know he understands marital struggles.

 

[Cojuanco]

I don’t think it’s that simple. The OP isn’t totally in left field. Historically, there have been a LOT of sins that were judged to make men ineligible for the priesthoood, regardless of later repentance. It’s not that they can’t be forgiven, but that sins have real effects and do real damage. Ordination is nobody’s right and as anybody that reads news knows, bishops need to be careful who they ordain. As catholics, we know that confession removes the guilt for sins, but it doesn’t obliterate the temporal effects of sin, right?

I personally suspect that the defect wasn’t on his side, but I also suspect that nobody will ever tell us about it!

True. But there is no impediment, currently, unlike, say, for someone deeply tempted to engage in sodomy. Now the bishop is by no means obligated to ordain such a man described in the OP, or any man. But deciding he would be ideal to ordain, the bishop has no obstacle to ordaining this one.

 

[HollyDolly]

:juggle:At least give him a chance.None of us know his situation before he became a priest. At least for married parishioners he is a man even though he is a priest that ,has been there and done that so to speak.He understands the problems of being a parent and a spouse.
That’s like supposing he had instead been a navy seal or served in the military like Iraq,etc. Well there is the good possibly he as a soldier shot people and some were wounded and some died.Would I condem him for that,no.Why,because that’s what they do among other things,that is the nature of war.
I would be more concerned about is he someone you can talk to,does he give good advice,does he visit the poor and sick in the parish,etc. If he truly does those things then don’t worry. St.Paul’s in San Antonio has a priest that was an SAPD officer. He was a cop at one time taking bad guys down.Only have heard good things about him.
As Jesus said to the women of Jerusalem as he carried the cross to Calvary,“Weep not for me,but for yourselves.” In otherwords, worry not if he is righ twith Jesus,just worry about yourself.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Long history of the Lord working through the broken and the sinner.

Another revered saint who lived a dissolute life before his conversion: St Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Jesuits.

 

[trevorhall]

I want to thank everyone for their reply to my question and appreciate your thoughts. But I guess I hold the position of being a priest too high for someone who has been divorced, has children and then has this “awakening!”

A widower has been loyal and faithful to his family, at least on the surface, is palpable to me, who then becomes a priest. I’m not passing judgment on anyone. But this person is taking on the most sacred vocation one could ever possibly think of and to dilute it down, to me, cheapens Christ.

What this says to me is, that anyone can get divorced have children and then get an annulment, and in my parish it is quite common to get an annulment. I live in a vey liberal archdiocese and it is not that uncommon. The person I talk may be a very good and honorable man, it’s not a sex thing or having children. It’s all about vows and when a man and women make them in, I’m assuming here, a sacramental marriage before God, I believe it’s for life!

Wow. Maybe someday I can be as holy as you. Oops. Guess not. I had an annulment. I am clearly inferior to your spiritual perfection. Peace be with you!

 

[TiggerS]

I have an annulment, and I rejoice that I didn’t know what I was going to go through before the Tribunal granted me an annulment - from when I was advised to apply.

What this says to me is, that anyone can get divorced have children and then get an annulment, and in my parish it is quite common to get an annulment. I live in a vey liberal archdiocese and it is not that uncommon. The person I talk may be a very good and honorable man, it’s not a sex thing or having children. It’s all about vows and when a man and women make them in, I’m assuming here, a sacramental marriage before God, I believe it’s for life!

It is not so simple as divorcing and then getting an annulment or at least it wasn’t for me. My ex husband divorced me, not the other way round - and The Church advised me that I needed the divorce so there was no legal claim on me as married to my ex husband. Sometimes, Catholics can feel that The Church is too free to grant annulments, without understanding all that is made known to the Marriage Annulment Tribunal in individual cases - its that age old case, I think, of ‘not knowing what goes on behind closed doors’ - prior to and at the actual time of marrying. Certainly, prior to Canon Law changes in 1983, the annulment process was more severe than after the changes settled in fully. And The Church had very sound reasons for changing Canon Law - see article below from American Catholic.

Absolutely, marriage is for life and especially for sure Sacramental Marriage in The Church and this was my precise intention anyway at the time of marrying. The Church still strictly maintains this re Sacramental Marriage even in applications for annulment. It is a very serious process and those on the Tribunal realize that they have responsibilities and accountabilities before God.

My hope is that now change has been made to Canon Law, that the process of applying to marry in The Church is no easy process - more demanding and enquiring of the couples. I personally have never sort to remarry for vocational reasons.

An annulment is a statement that there was no sacramental marriage before God at the time of marrying. My annulment came through prior to the changes in Canon Law when it was still a quite severe process (see American Catholic article below)

What is an annulment?
A Catholic annulment, also known as a declaration of nullity or invalidity, is a statement of fact by the Catholic Church. After carefully examining the couple’s broken relationship, the Church states that a valid marriage, as the Church defines marriage, never existed. It is not “Catholic divorce,” as some have called it, since divorce looks at the moment the relationship broke down and says, “A marriage existed, and now we are ending it.” The annulment process says, on the other hand, “From the very beginning, something was lacking that was necessary for this relationship to be called a marriage.”

americancatholic.org/newsletters/cu/ac1080.asp
Why the Church is Granting More Annulments
by Jeffrey Keefe, O.F.M.Conv.
(Well worth a read for those interested in The Church’s teaching on annulment)

 

[TiggerS]

:juggle:At least give him a chance.None of us know his situation before he became a priest. At least for married parishioners he is a man even though he is a priest that ,has been there and done that so to speak.He understands the problems of being a parent and a spouse.
That’s like supposing he had instead been a navy seal or served in the military like Iraq,etc. Well there is the good possibly he as a soldier shot people and some were wounded and some died.Would I condem him for that,no.Why,because that’s what they do among other things,that is the nature of war.
I would be more concerned about is he someone you can talk to,does he give good advice,does he visit the poor and sick in the parish,etc. If he truly does those things then don’t worry. St.Paul’s in San Antonio has a priest that was an SAPD officer. He was a cop at one time taking bad guys down.Only have heard good things about him.
As Jesus said to the women of Jerusalem as he carried the cross to Calvary,“Weep not for me,but for yourselves.” In otherwords, worry not if he is righ twith Jesus,just worry about yourself.

In my parish, we have a priest who served in the army prior to being ordained. After ordination he did serve as an army chaplain in Afghanistan. I think he would have served well as an army chaplain, since he had been in the army so long himself.
The Lord does not choose the qualified, He qualifies the chosen.

 

[newenglandsun]

Yeah there’s a priest in my diocese who is a widower and he has several adult children. He’s one of the best, holiest priests in the diocese that I know.

There’s nothing wrong with the situation you’ve laid out. He had an annulment.

From my understanding, widowers in some Eastern Rite Churches can become bishops.

 

[hwriggles4]

Widowers are also allowed. If the annulment was granted and his kids are grown I don’t understand what is the problem. I would like that because I am divorced (an annulled) and it would be so helpful to know he understands marital struggles.

Irishgal49:

I agree with you if the annulment was granted and his kids are grown. Another poster was 100% correct when he said the annulment must be granted before entering seminary.

I said on another thread that some dioceses and religious orders (some, not all) will consider candidates for the priesthood and religious life who have been divorced and annulled. My understanding is in places that have accepted men with annulments, this situation is examined on a “case-by-case” basis - it is not a “rubber stamp.”

Many dioceses require that obligations to children must be taken care of. This could rule out several men if they are paying child support or have joint custody, etc. If children are grown and on their own, then an older man with an annulment could possibly enter formation.

I don’t know if this is true for every diocese, but one particular diocese a few years ago did mention that it was better if a former spouse was living outside the diocese.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is now a guideline in place of how long a man has been on his own prior to entering formation. A couple dioceses ask converts to wait up to 3 years before entering formation, and others want a man to have remained celibate for at least 2 years prior to entering formation.

There is also some criteria for widowers as well.

Being a priest is not a “9 to 5” job, even though some Catholics who attend Mass regularly see it that way.

 

[hwriggles4]

In my parish, we have a priest who served in the army prior to being ordained. After ordination he did serve as an army chaplain in Afghanistan. I think he would have served well as an army chaplain, since he had been in the army so long himself.
The Lord does not choose the qualified, He qualifies the chosen.

TiggerS:

I do find that priests who served in the military when they were younger (whether it be enlisted or as a junior officer), do an excellent job serving the military as a chaplain. IMHO, it has alot to do that the priest has been in the same shoes as the enlisted personnel or the junior officer. I also find that the military lets “men be men”, which helps with formation. 10% of priests that have been ordained within the last 15 years served a few years in the Armed Forces.

Two bishops chosen for the Archdiocese for the Military Services (Spencer and Buckon) were both junior officers (Spencer was in charge of some MP’s, and Buckon was an artillery officer) before entering seminary. Both were able to return to the Army as chaplains after ordination, with permission of their diocesan bishops.

 

[Soul_Searcher01]

I recently found out that a priest who was once married, got an annulment and has two adult sons ages 21 & 24, got ordained in our archdiocese. While I understand that the annulment means that he has never been married, I’m still struggling with this and really can’t accept this

Who are any of us to judge. I do not think this should be a problem. There is a shortage of Priests. For a person to give up their life to serve others is a calling no matter what the circumstance. Men who become priests are only human and should be revered for what they give up.

:getholy: