A Dying Cardinal (re: 1977 investigation of the Roman Curia)

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The OP quotes an article by “Msgr. Vincent Foy, the oldest diocesan priest in the Archdiocese of Toronto, a canon lawyer by training” writing:

“These led to the often-repeated saying of the Pope [Paul VI] that the smoke of Satan had entered the Church [my emphasis]”.

The usual attributed quote is: “The smoke of Satan has entered the house of God.”

Please bear in mind that I have always been most sympathetic to Catholic traditionalism and consider that Vatican II had been the most egregious, self-inflicted wound to any institution in all history. Nevertheless, the above quote is itself probably the most repeated, non-documented quote in all history! I and others have searched in vain to find exactly when Paul VI said this and in what context.

If anyone here can point to the source of this alleged quote by Paul VI, I’d be grateful for it. In what work or speech did he make it? If no one can, then I respectfully suggest people stop using it, let alone building conspiricy theories around it.

Thanks
 
Don,
You need search no further than the Vatican website itself. The original quote came from a homily of Paul VI delivered on the 29th of June, 1972. I’ll give you the link to the Vatican’s website where you can find the quote at the end of my post. The Vatican website seems to have only the Italian version of his remarks. I put it through Google translate and the relevant paragraph comes out as follows:
" Referring to the situation of the Church of today, the Holy Father says that you have the feeling that [through]some crack has entered the smoke of Satan in the temple of God. " There is doubt, uncertainty, problems, anxiety, dissatisfaction, confrontation."

Cardinal Virgilio Noe who was papal master of ceremonies and very close to Paul VI confirmed the remark last year. His interpretation is as follows:
" Pope Paul accepted the liturgical reforms after Vatican II “with pleasure,” Cardinal Noe said. He added that Paul VI was not be nature a sad man, but “he was saddened by the fact of having been left alone by the Roman Curia.” Regarding the late Pope’s famous remark about the “smoke of Satan,” Cardinal Noe said that he knew what Paul VI intended by that statement. In that denunciation, he said, the Pope “meant to include all those priests or bishops and cardinals who didn’t render worship to the Lord by celebrating badly Holy Mass because of an errant interpretation of the implementation of the Second Vatican Council. He spoke of the smoke of Satan because he maintained that those priests who turned Holy Mass into dross in the name of creativity, in reality were possessed of the vainglory and the pride of the Evil One. So, the smoke of Satan was nothing other than the mentality which wanted to distort the traditional and liturgical canons of the Eucharistic ceremony.”

For Pope Paul VI, the cardinal continued, the worst outcome of the post-conciliar liturgical reform was the “craving to be in the limelight” that caused many priests to ignore liturgical guidelines. Cardinal Noe recalled that the Pope himself believed in careful adherence to the rubrics of the Mass, firmly believing that “no one is lord of the Mass.”

Speaking for himself, the former top Vatican liturgist said that the liturgy must always be celebrated with reverence and careful respect for the rubrics. He said with regret that in the wake of Vatican II “it was believed that everything, or nearly, was permitted.” Cardinal Noe said: “Now it is necessary to recover-- and in a hurry-- the sense of the sacred in the ars celebrandi, before the smoke of Satan completely pervades the whole Church.”
See: catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=58473

Paul VI’s original homily: vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/homilies/1972/documents/hf_p-vi_hom_19720629_it.html

This is the English version as rendered by Google Translate:
translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/homilies/1972/documents/hf_p-vi_hom_19720629_it.html&sl=it&tl=en&history_state0=

C.
 
Dear Cetil!

Finally! Thanks so much.

Ten years or so ago, this quote was thrown around with reckless abandon by traditionalists on another forum. Although I had been generally in accord with their sentiments, that didn’t stop me insisting upon accurate and truthful arguments being employed. So it occurred to me that as often as I had heard this quote, predating this forum, I never once heard anyone attribute it to Paul VI by documenting exactly when he said this and in what context.

No one then could answer that question, though many spent considerable time trying to do so. Now, thanks to you, I at last have an answer!

Thanks again. It’s most appreciated!

Don
 
No problem Don. I do agree that truth matters above all. And let the chips fall where they may. I think Abp. Lefebvre used to quote it fairly often and I remember hunting long and hard for it myself 30 years ago. But then we had no internet. I remember going to the Theology Library at a Catholic college and hunting through old issues of L’Osservatore Romano with no luck. Now you just need a little googling at the right sites!

Take care,

c.
 
This is a very fine and highly respected Catholic magazine…I have heard Fr Groeschel say that he subscribes to this

He wouldn’t read anything that was just a gossip rag or that practiced yellow journalism
 
From this morning’s newsflash:

I began my conversation with the monsignor indicated to me by Cardinal Gagnon as he lay dying with the simple fact of Gagnon’s passing in August of 2007.

We spoke in Italian. The conversation took place in the fall of 2007.

“I was sorry to hear of Cardinal Gagnon’s passing,” I said.

“Yes, so was I,” the monsignor said. “He was a great servant of the Church. He suffered a great deal.”

“I knew him,” I said. “He was always helpful to me, especially when I was beginning.”

“He was a kind man.”

And then we began our usual conversation, on the state of the Church, the latest news in the Vatican, and so forth. Our conversation turned naturally to the publication on July 7, 2007, of the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum, which promoted wider use of the old rite of the Mass.

“I’m confused,” I said.

“Why?” he said.

“The whole thing,” I said. “What happened at the Second Vatican Council, the Constitution on the Liturgy, the Commission established to revise the Mass, Monsignor Bugnini… And now, 40 years later, we seem to be still in a state of confusion. It seems like all the things we held sacred — all the things we loved — have been trampled upon.”

“You are too gloomy,” he said, waving his hand dismissively. “Yes, things have been trampled upon, but the essential remains. Don’t lose heart.”

“Does the essential remain?” I asked. “Look around. We have some who don’t care about any traditions at all, they look at the ‘old Church’ as narrow and guilt-ridden, and they will do anything not to go back. And we have many traditionalists who seem to focus solely on externals — it sometimes seems an idolatry of the ritual…”

“I don’t see it that black-and-white,” the monsignor said. “You are leaving out all the individuals, all their acts of sacrifice, their good humor, their prayer. You have fallen into a trap. In the fight over truth, don’t forget grace. Remember, there is God, the Holy Spirit, Mary…”

“But why do so many seem not to care?”

“Some are thoughtless. Some are persuaded the Church should be changed. Some just flow with the tide. Some are motivated by money. And then there are those who serve other masters. That was the case with Bugnini…”

I was startled. Not because of what he said, because it is an old allegation, but because of the way he said it, as if it was something settled, beyond discussion.

“Of course, I have heard that,” I said, “but why do you say it so bluntly, as if it were certain? I thought it was just an allegation?”

“It is certain,” he said. “At least, as certain as anything can be in this world. He went to a meeting in the Secretariat of State, with his briefcase. It was in 1975. Later that evening, when everyone had gone home, a monsignor found the briefcase Bugnini had left behind. The monsignor decided to open it to see who the owner was. And when he opened it, he found letters inside addressed to Bugnini, as to a brother, from the Grand Master of Italian Freemasonry…”

“But could those letters have been forgeries?” I asked. “Could someone have opened the briefcase, seen it was Bugnini’s, and then slipped these false documents inside, to frame him?”

"Well, theoretically, I suppose, that is possible. [Note to readers: Bugnini himself always said the allegations were false, that he was never a freemason, and that the charges were made against him by disgruntled conservatives who opposed the work he had done on the liturgy.] But Paul VI, at least, didn’t think so. When the evidence was brought to him, he came to the conclusion that Bugnini needed to be removed immediately from his post. Bugnini was made the papal nuncio in Iran. After more than 25 years as the head of the liturgical reform, he was abruptly fired and sent to a country where there are hardly any Catholics at all. It was a type of banishment.

“That is very sad,” I said.

“No,” he said, “it is very human… And today, 35 years later, it is in the past. It is something we can do nothing about.”

“But if this is really true,” I said, “then Paul VI may have approved of the new Mass under ‘false pretences,’ as it were. Wouldn’t that raise questions about the entire liturgical reform? And why, then, did Paul VI not go back to the drawing board, if he believed what you say was true?”

(For more on the letters in the briefcase, see:traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_075_BugniniMason.htm)

==============================

The Monsignor Sums Up

“Look,” the monsignor said, “no matter how many defeats the Church suffers, no matter how many betrayals, there is always hope…”

“But the losses are so great,” I said, “it is as if the link between our time and the past has been severed…”

“No!” He looked fiercely at me. “You yourself are evidence that it has not been severed. And so am I. And I tell you, that even were you to fall, and betray the faith, and even were I to fall, and even if all around us were to fall, still, the Church will not be defeated. She will prevail. Non praevalebunt!”

And I looked at him and marveled at his faith.

And I still had not asked him about the Gagnon dossier…

=========================================

(More to come…)
 
Partial background materials provided at the bottom of Dr. Moynihan’s newsflash:

Here is an article that appeared in Catholic News Service in December 2007; in this report, based on a book by Bugnini’s secretary, Piero Marini, now an archbishop (and the man who was for many years the master of papal liturgies, under John Paul II) the “fall” of Bugnini is depicted as the result of curial opposition to his reforms, and there is no mention of these allegations or of any “lost briefcase”:

Archbishop’s book tells of battles over control of liturgical reform

By John Thavis

Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY, December 19, 2007 (CNS) – In a new book, a Vatican archbishop has chronicled the birth pangs of the liturgical reform generated by the Second Vatican Council and warned of a Roman Curia tendency to return to a “preconciliar mindset.”

The book, A Challenging Reform, was written by Archbishop Piero Marini, who recently ended a 20-year tenure as papal liturgist. His Vatican career began in 1965 in the office charged with implementing liturgical renewal.

Archbishop Marini recounted the rise of a decentralized and dynamic reform movement in the 1960s and its “curialization” in the 1970s by Vatican officials afraid of losing control.

Many of the hard-won liturgical changes were accompanied by tensions and disagreements inside the Vatican’s central bureaucracy, he said.

The archbishop’s book, published by Liturgical Press, was scheduled for presentation Dec. 14 in London, where the author was being honored at a reception hosted by Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor.

The book offered an unusual look behind the scenes at the Vatican, beginning with the Second Vatican Council’s approval in 1963 of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, which launched an extensive revision of Catholic worship.

In 1964, Pope Paul VI established the Consilium for the Implementation of the Constitution on the Liturgy, an international body that operated with considerable independence from existing Roman Curia offices.

From the beginning, Archbishop Marini wrote, the consilium’s efforts met with resistance from traditionalist Curia members, who tried to curb the reform by “opposing real liturgical change and maintaining the status quo.”

In 1969, the consilium was transformed into the Congregation for Divine Worship. Just six years later, the worship congregation was disbanded under growing criticism from other Vatican offices.

“This was probably one of the first signs of a tendency to return to a preconciliar mindset that has for years now characterized the Curia’s approach,” Archbishop Marini said in the book’s conclusion.

“As more and more time passes since the Second Vatican Council, an event charged with such hope and desire for renewal, its distinctive contributions seem to be increasingly questioned,” he said.

The book focuses in large part on Italian Father Annibale Bugnini, secretary of the consilium and its driving force. As a young priest, Archbishop Marini worked closely with Father Bugnini and at one point was his personal secretary.

Under Father Bugnini, the consilium reflected the liturgical ideas and enthusiasm of local churches, rather than the more cautious approach of Rome, the book said.

Thanks in part to Pope Paul’s strategic support, the consilium managed to introduce a succession of significant changes in the liturgy, despite initial efforts by the Vatican’s Congregation for Rites to block or delay the reforms, Archbishop Marini said.

He said the Roman Curia’s opposition took many forms: official and open disagreement, scathing articles published under pseudonyms, newsletters or pamphlets circulated among the hierarchy, and private meetings.

Hostility sometimes was based on hearsay. When the consilium conducted closed-door liturgical experiments in a chapel near the Vatican, rumors flew around Rome that “unimaginable heresies” were in preparation, the archbishop said.

Father Bugnini remained the central figure of the reform movement, and when Pope Paul made him secretary of the newly established Congregation for Divine Worship in 1969 – the year the new Mass was promulgated – it seemed like a moment of triumph. The new congregation’s primary task was to promote and safeguard the Vatican II reforms.

But with the higher profile of the reformers, the Curia attacks became even stronger, the book said. One pamphlet circulated at the Vatican contended that in the new Mass “the existence of division and schism is officially recognized.” Two Curia cardinals wrote to the pope and said the reforms showed an “alarming divergence” from Catholic theology.

Although the reforms continued and Father Bugnini was made an archbishop, his position gradually weakened – partly because his own “single-mindedness, even stubbornness” had alienated others in the Roman Curia, Archbishop Marini said.

While Archbishop Bugnini was on vacation in 1975, the book said, several private meetings sealed his fate. Shortly afterward, the Congregation for Divine Worship was disbanded and Archbishop Bugnini was sent to Iran as apostolic pro-nuncio.

With these changes, Archbishop Marini said, “the distinctive style of the consilium was gradually absorbed into the more traditional style proper to the Roman Curia.”

The archbishop said the difficult history of liturgical reform reflects “the prophetic vision” of Pope Paul as well as the limitations of his pontificate.

Archbishop Marini, 65, was the master of papal liturgical ceremonies from 1987 until last October, when Pope Benedict XVI named him president of the Pontifical Committee for International Eucharistic Congresses.

continued…
 
So now Bugnini is a freemason? :rolleyes:

As if any of that matters. The fact is, the pope wouldn’t have approved the new mass if there were problems with it. You could assign an athiest to revise the liturgy, and as long as the pope agreed it was the mass he wanted, it would be fine. It doesn’t matter either way.
Later that evening, when everyone had gone home, a monsignor found the briefcase Bugnini had left behind. The monsignor decided to open it to see who the owner was. And when he opened it, he found letters inside addressed to Bugnini, as to a brother, from the Grand Master of Italian Freemasonry…"
 
From Dr. Moynihan’s addendum to him background material:

“Whether Archbishop Bugnini was a Freemason would seem to be an academic question (“What Went Wrong?”, Inside the Vatican, June-July 1996). For if we are to accept the testimony of Archbishop Malula of Kinshasa, Zaire, reported by Abbot Boniface Luykx (“The Bitter Struggle,” Inside the Vatican, May 1996, pp. 16-19), Bugnini had adopted the ideology of secular humanism, which even falls short of the tame Deism professed by the brethren of the Lodge. However, I have it on good authority that Bugnini’s abrupt dismissal was indeed prompted by incontrovertible evidence that he was a member of the Lodge. A priest who was a longtime personal friend of Pope Paul VI was informed, by a Freemason whom he had reconciled with the Church, that Bugnini was a member of the same lodge, whose date of initiation and code name he could provide.” (Reverend Father G.H. Duggan, S.M.)

“In 1972 Pope Paul created Bugnini Titular Archbishop of Dioclentia. In 1975, however, the Archbishop left his briefcase behind in a conference room, where it was found and inspected by the Dominican Friar charged with restoring the room to order. In search only of the identity of the case’s owner, the Dominican found, according to Piers Compton, documents whose “signatures and place of origin showed that they came from dignitaries of secret societies in Rome” (The Broken Cross, p. 61). The letters were addressed to “Brother Bugnini.” …] Bugnini was appointed the Apostolic pro-Nuncio to Iran, and repeatedly denied that he had Freemasonic affiliations. When the Italian Register came to light in 1976, however, it showed his April 23, 1963 initiation date and number, and gave his code name as ‘Buan.’” (Carey J. Winters)

“An internationally known churchman of unimpeachable integrity has also told me that he heard the account of the discovery of the evidence against Bugnini directly from the Roman priest who found it in a briefcase which Bugnini had inadvertently left in a Vatican conference room after a meeting.” (Reverend Father Brian Harrison O.S., Rome, Italy)

“Archbishop Bugnini was a consultant in the Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, and in the Sacred Congregation of Holy Rites. He was also the chairman of the Concilium which drafted the Novus Ordo Missae. Archbishop Annibale Bugnini was a freemason, initiated into the Masonic Lodge on April 23, 1963 (Masonic Register of Italy dated 1976). Monsignor Bugnini was removed from his office in the Vatican when it became public that he was a Mason.” (Most Asked Questions About The Society Of Saint Pius X (Angelus Press, 2918 Tracy Ave., Kansas City, MO), p. 26.)

“To fight against papacy is a social necessity and constitutes the constant duty of freemasonry.” (Masonic International Congress held in Brussels 1904, page 132 of the report)

Pope Leo XIII: “Let us, therefore, expose Freemasonry as the enemy of God, of the Church and of our Motherland.” (Letter to the Italian people, December 8, 1892)

Leo XII: “They have exposed their contempt for authority, their hatred of Sovereignty, their attacks against the Divinity of Jesus Christ and the very existence of God: They openly vaunt their materialism as well as their codes and statutes which explain their plans and efforts in order to overthrow the legitimate Heads of State and completely destroy the Church.” (Encyclical Quo Graviora)
 
So now Bugnini is a freemason? :rolleyes:

As if any of that matters. The fact is, the pope wouldn’t have approved the new mass if there were problems with it. You could assign an athiest to revise the liturgy, and as long as the pope agreed it was the mass he wanted, it would be fine. It doesn’t matter either way.
I agree.

Don’t get me wrong. I am not one of those ultra-trad nut-cases.
I have no problem with the NO mass as long as it is said without improvisation.

But if there are currently enemies within the Church plotting to do harm to the Catholic Faith, is it not your duty to protect her? That is my point in starting the thread. This is not about liberals against trads. This is about a group of men trying to destroy the Catholic Church and how we as Catholics, you and me together, should protect her.
 
Don,

" Referring to the situation of the Church of today, the Holy Father says that you have the feeling that [through]some crack has entered the smoke of Satan in the temple of God. " There is doubt, uncertainty, problems, anxiety, dissatisfaction, confrontation."
It is good to see the actual quote. This is very different than most quote it. I guess it goes to show how rumors grow like snowballs rolling downhill.
 
So now Bugnini is a freemason? :rolleyes:

As if any of that matters. The fact is, the pope wouldn’t have approved the new mass if there were problems with it. You could assign an athiest to revise the liturgy, and as long as the pope agreed it was the mass he wanted, it would be fine. It doesn’t matter either way.
It does matter really. In matters such as this which are purely disciplinary the pope can err;
Obviously, Rome’s past approval of vernacular translations of the Novus Ordo is questionable since the entire liturgy is now being re-translated into a form more faithful to the Latin text.
As to Bugnini being a freemason, that may very well be the case. It is significant than when the public controversy erupted over his abrupt dismissal and exile to Iran, the Vatican never once denied the charge that he was a freemason.

C.
 
I think you people are going WAAAAY off into the left field here.

Nobody, least of all Dr. Moynihan, is ever implying that there is anything wrong with the Catholic Church herself. He is not an anti-Vatican conspiracy nut. He is a well respected man who loves the Church.

The accuracy of the Holy Father’s quotation is a complete non-issue. Dr. Moynihan is quoting Msgr. Vincent Foy who in turn is quoting the Holy Father. The paraphrased quotation is not a focal point. Nobody is hanging their hat on it.
 
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