A few comments on pride

[Robert_Sock]

Pride is said to drive the other carnal sins. Pride is so tough to conquer because it centers on the illusion of self. Condemning inner pride then feels like we are crushing our very self, which we are. Sometimes our pride is obvious, but through experience, I believe it can be ever so subtle. If there is one sin that most everyone is guilty, it’s pride. With some deeper introspection, these subtle forms of pride can be detected. All pride is deadly to the soul, and needs to be confessed often.

 

[GEddie]

Pride is said to drive the other carnal sins. Pride is so tough to conquer because it centers on the illusion of self. Condemning inner pride then feels like we are crushing our very self, which we are. Sometimes our pride is obvious, but through experience, I believe it can be ever so subtle. If there is one sin that most everyone is guilty, it’s pride. With some deeper introspection, these subtle forms of pride can be detected. All pride is deadly to the soul, and needs to be confessed often.

Leave us some pride, RS.

Death will humble us all soon enough.

ICXC NIKA

 

[mh2007]

Yes, it is the battle between the human ego and the soul.

 

[GEddie]

Hey!!! Leggo my ego!!!

 

[thistle]

Pride is said to drive the other carnal sins. Pride is so tough to conquer because it centers on the illusion of self. Condemning inner pride then feels like we are crushing our very self, which we are. Sometimes our pride is obvious, but through experience, I believe it can be ever so subtle. If there is one sin that most everyone is guilty, it’s pride. With some deeper introspection, these subtle forms of pride can be detected. All pride is deadly to the soul, and needs to be confessed often.

Depends what you mean by pride. I take pride in doing my best on a project. I was proud when my daughter graduated. Pride like that is NOT sinful.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Depends what you mean by pride. I take pride in doing my best on a project. I was proud when my daughter graduated. Pride like that is NOT sinful.

LOVE is infinitely greater than pride. Feeling pure LOVE in those situations where we used to feel this pride is most wise and creates a situation where pride is trumped. Whatever you do, do for LOVE!

 

[Robert_Sock]

I WILL speak to my Lord, I who am but dust and ashes. If I consider myself anything more than this, behold You stand against me, and my sins bear witness to the truth which I cannot contradict. If I abase myself, however, if I humble myself to nothingness, if I shrink from all self-esteem and account myself as the dust which I am, Your grace will favor me, Your light will enshroud my heart, and all self-esteem, no matter how little, will sink in the depths of my nothingness to perish forever.
-The Imitation of Christ

 

[thistle]

LOVE is infinitely greater than pride. Feeling pure LOVE in those situations where we used to feel this pride is most wise and creates a situation where pride is trumped. Whatever you do, do for LOVE!

You stated ALL pride is sinful. That is blatantly untrue and I gave you two examples.

 

[friardchips]

LOVE is infinitely greater than pride. Feeling pure LOVE in those situations where we used to feel this pride is most wise and creates a situation where pride is trumped. Whatever you do, do for LOVE!

 

[Robert_Sock]

You stated ALL pride is sinful. That is blatantly untrue and I gave you two examples.

When we say we are proud of someone, we are not always feeling true pride but something else that we erroneously call “pride.” If it’s not internalized onto the ego, it’s not true pride. Whenever we feel pride over love, we sin. I’ll emphasize again that pride can be very subtle, such as in feeling truly proud of someone.

If you still disagree, please explain the qualitative difference between sinful and non-sinful pride?

 

[christofirst]

When we say we are proud of someone, we are not always feeling true pride but something else that we erroneously call “pride.” If it’s not internalized onto the ego, it’s not true pride. Whenever we feel pride over love, we sin. I’ll emphasize again that pride can be very subtle, such as in feeling truly proud of someone.

If you still disagree, please explain the qualitative difference between sinful and non-sinful pride?

Maybe one difference would be acknowledging the hand of God in the good accomplishments of ourselves and others. This would be a good kind of pride. The wrong kind would be taking all credit onto ourselves, and clinging to these feelings in a possessive way. Self-centered versus God-centered.

 

[MTarcisius]

Depends what you mean by pride. I take pride in doing my best on a project. I was proud when my daughter graduated. Pride like that is NOT sinful.

When we say we are proud of someone, we are not always feeling true pride but something else that we erroneously call “pride.” If it’s not internalized onto the ego, it’s not true pride. Whenever we feel pride over love, we sin. I’ll emphasize again that pride can be very subtle, such as in feeling truly proud of someone.

If you still disagree, please explain the qualitative difference between sinful and non-sinful pride?

This is a matter of semantics and vocabulary.

I just read through the Catechisms teachings on pride. There is not a definition for pride in the Catechism. Websters dictionary has multiple definitions for pride. What Thistle said is accurate. Robert seems to define “pride” as the “sin of pride” but without providing a definition it is hard to say what Robert is talking about, for example Robert’s definition of pride seems to requires internalizing onto the ego (this is not a stipulation of the definition of pride). To be perfectly honest it sounds like Robert is using a clinical psychologist’s definition of pride.

It is important to remember that pride is not an action or feeling. Pride is a word. The word pride is used to denote actions or feelings.

 

[Robert_Sock]

This is a matter of semantics and vocabulary.

I just read through the Catechisms teachings on pride. There is not a definition for pride in the Catechism. Websters dictionary has multiple definitions for pride. What Thistle said is accurate. Robert seems to define “pride” as the “sin of pride” but without providing a definition it is hard to say what Robert is talking about, for example Robert’s definition of pride seems to requires internalizing onto the ego (this is not a stipulation of the definition of pride). To be perfectly honest it sounds like Robert is using a clinical psychologist’s definition of pride.

It is important to remember that pride is not an action or feeling. Pride is a word. The word pride is used to denote actions or feelings.

Having to have the internalization of pride upon the ego for it to be sinful describes the process that must occur. This should be alluded to in any complete definition. Simply saying something like I take pride in doing my work as best as I can may be a subtle form of sinful pride or a pseudo-pride, depending upon the process. OTOH, anything that feeds the ego is always sinful pride.

 

[MTarcisius]

Having to have the internalization of pride upon the ego for it to be sinful describes the process that must occur. This should be alluded to in any complete definition. Simply saying something like I take pride in doing my work as best as I can may be a subtle form of sinful pride or a pseudo-pride, depending upon the process. OTOH, anything that feeds the ego is always sinful pride.

I am sorry, but unless you provide a cited definition for what you mean by pride then this is simply your opinion based on your personal definition.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I am sorry, but unless you provide a cited definition for what you mean by pride then this is simply your opinion based on your personal definition.

Did I not define the process? This process is my operational definition of pride. Please feel free to refute this process if you disagree.

Why a cited definition? Am I not allowed to define it myself given my expertise on the subject?

 

[MTarcisius]

Did I not define the process? This process is my operational definition of pride. Please feel free to refute this process if you disagree.

OK that means you are using your own definition rather than an English or Catholic definition.

 

[Robert_Sock]

OK that means you are using your own definition rather than an English or Catholic definition.

I’m providing the process based on my expertise in personality psychology.

Does the Church, or the field of psychology, teach something that would oppose the process that I’m proposing?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Thank you Jeff! My true intention of this thread is to warn others of the subtleties of sinful pride. With careful introspection I can see that I still commit the sin of pride on a regular bases.

Loving God with all our soul, heart, mind and strength is another sin that I regularly confess.

Between pride and our sometimes lacking in our love for God, I think I can clearly see where we are are all sinners.

 

[InNomineDomini]

Thank you for citing Fr. Hardon, Deacon. I was just about to navigate over to CatholicCulture’s online archive of the same resource.

I’d actually like to quote a bit more from the entry on pride:

While not all sins are pride, it can lead to all sorts of sins, notably presumption, ambition, vainglory, boasting, hypocrisy, strife, and disobedience. Pride strives for perverse excellence. It despises others and, depending on its perversity, even looks down upon God. The remedies for pride are a sincere knowledge of oneself, the acceptance of daily humiliations, avoidance of even the least self-complacency, humble acknowledgement of ones’ faults, and prayerful communion with God.

 

[InNomineDomini]

Loving God [sic] with all our soul, heart, mind and strength is another sin that I regularly confess.

I’m no moral theologian, but I would actually wonder whether this is even sinful in most people, or if it’s simply an imperfection.