A few questions for Mormons

[Prince_Hal]

I am a faithful, believing Mormon; and I can confirm to you that what the missionaries have told you is true. It is not a doctrine of the LDS Church that God and Mary had physical intercourse. Those who tell you to the contrary here are apostates from Mormonism; and apostates are not to be trusted about any religion, be they from Mormonism or Catholicism. If you want to learn the truth about Mormonism, learn it from Mormons, not from apostates from Mormonism.

zerinus

Well Zerinus is strictly correct, but I must believe that he knows that he is not telling the full story. Without getting into a slanging match I have to answer.

It is the truth that will set us free, whether it supports our position or makes us uncomfortable. I agree, I have not seen a single LDS Sunday School manual or Priesthood manual that is currently used, or even used in the past 20 years that teaches that Elohim had sex with Mary. Agreed. It is not openly taught. And that is what Zerinus said. But what he failed to mention is that as PaulDupre correctly pointed out, this doctrine is taught and has been written down:

The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Savior unlawfully. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158)

The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood- was begotten of his Father, as we are of our fathers. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 8:115)

In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it. (Heber C. Kimball, Journal of discourses, 8:211)

God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the son of God, and that designation means what it says.—page 742 Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie

Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in the mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again** take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity**. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158)

The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 11:268)

And we could go on and on.

Zerinus, love the truth.

God bless,

Hal.

 

[majick275]

I am a faithful, believing Mormon; and I can confirm to you that what the missionaries have told you is true. It is not a doctrine of the LDS Church that God and Mary had physical intercourse. Those who tell you to the contrary here are apostates from Mormonism; and apostates are not to be trusted about any religion, be they from Mormonism or Catholicism. If you want to learn the truth about Mormonism, learn it from Mormons, not from apostates from Mormonism.

zerinus

zerinus has often disagree with the documented positions of mormon leaders on this forum. LDs missionaries are not well catechized and are give intense sales type training for the purpose of making a connection and getting people to quickly get baptized without a thorough understanding of what they are getting into. by zerinus logic no Catholic could ever become mormon because they would then be an apostate, not to be trusted who isn’t really mormon but just using the mormon church as a platform from which to attack catholicism. mormon leaders have a long well documented history of deception and has no catechism equivalent nor a trained clergy. thus it becomes difficult to truly define mormon beliefs. the average mormon is unaware of many LDS teachings, especially the ones that have been “supressed” by revisionist history in mormon teaching manuals. They also take the “milk before meat” as an “out” to say whatever it takes to get you in without teaching you what they really believe. I can demonstrate my positions through mormon sources, Zerinus knows this and chooses not to respond since when he tried he ended up proving himself wrong with his own sources. don’t drink the koolaid.

 

[PaulDupre]

There are still vestiges of the “God had sex with Mary” doctrine in the current “Doctrines of the Gospel” Sunday school manual:

A. Jesus Christ is literally the son of God the Eternal Father.
■ “That Child to be born of Mary was begotten of Elohim, the Eternal Father, not in violation of natural law but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof; and, the offspring from that association of supreme sanctity, celestial Sireship, and pure though mortal maternity, was of right to be called the ‘Son of the Highest.’” (James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, 81).

■ “We believe absolutely that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, begotten of God, the first-born in the spirit and the only begotten in the flesh; that He is the Son of God just as much as you and I are the sons of our fathers” (Heber J. Grant, “Analysis of the Articles of Faith,” Millennial Star, 5 Jan. 1922, 2).

(Doctrines of the Gospel student manual, chapter 4)

He that has eyes to see will see.

Paul

 

[Prince_Hal]

There are still vestiges of the “God had sex with Mary” doctrine in the current “Doctrines of the Gospel” Sunday school manual:

He that has eyes to see will see.

Paul

Thanks Paul. Agreed. The question is Why people do not see. Now that really goes into the psychology of Mormonism. Perhaps thought for another thread.

God bless,

Hal.