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Karin
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well the nephites **where **Jews…(The ancient Nephites practiced Judiasm before coming to Christ )
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Karin
Guest
The Jews had the 10 Commandments for centuries (as per your own post) to cart around and for people to see…so why where the Gold plates not around longer so more than 8 poeple could see them?
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Alma147
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As I recall, the “people” didn’t see the 10 commandments. They were inside the ark of the covenant and that was kept inside the holy of holies in the temple and only the high priest went in there once per year. Doesn’t seem to me like they were any more open to examination than the plates were by being seen by 12 people. (11 witnesses besides Joseph Smith.)
Alma
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Saint_Michael
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The Jews also received the tablets after God sent plagues on Egypt, parted the Red Sea and swallowed the Egyptians, fed them in the desert for forty years with Manna, gave them sweet water from a rock etc… I think seeing two tablets of the Testimony would be just icing on the cake. Not to mention Moses shows them to everyone, but smashes them because they’re worshipping the golden calf. Oh how easy it would’ve been to believe in God traveling with that crew, and having seen all that they did…
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Valke2
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point of order. The receiving of manna and the sweet water miracles occurred after Sinai.The Jews also received the tablets after God sent plagues on Egypt, parted the Red Sea and swallowed the Egyptians, fed them in the desert for forty years with Manna, gave them sweet water from a rock etc… I think seeing two tablets of the Testimony would be just icing on the cake. Not to mention Moses shows them to everyone, but smashes them because they’re worshipping the golden calf. Oh how easy it would’ve been to believe in God traveling with that crew, and having seen all that they did…
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PaulDupre
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You’re a handy man to have around, Valke2!
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Valke2
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Yeah. I’m the “Rainman” of scripture.
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Brandon23
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Well you say dont copy his reply. But from missionaires ive talked to thats exactly it.Thank you…
but I kinda want a mormon to answer them…I hope that if they do they just dont copy your reply
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Brandon23
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yes I have noticed that a few of them have looked at the thread but then do not post a reply…guess that might be my answer…
I mean do these questions really require a long drawn out comment??/QUOTE
Yes i personely think they do. You can’t say your opinion or belief in a sentence.
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Alma147
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Karin;1615076:
I’m a Mormon and I answered all the questions; but didn’t get much in the way of responses.yes I have noticed that a few of them have looked at the thread but then do not post a reply
I mean do these questions really require a long drawn out comment??
Alma
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Prince_Hal
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*]**If Jesus was conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary, how was Jesus born of a virgin? (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50). **
Interesting questiosn, but I would probably agree too many. To understand truthfully and openly any of them requires so considerable discussion.
Let me pick just one as a Mormon Bishop leaving the Mormon faith and heading into Catholicism.
LDS would say that whilst the union between God - Elohom - and Mary was physical just like normal sexual intercourse, there was a big difference in that Elohom is God. So Mary was still a virgin after the event because she did not have intercourse with a mortal man. The breaking of virginity only applies to when a human being does it. God is God and that is different.
Now Elohim did not commit adultery either in that he was God and only mortal man can have sex with a woman betrothed to another and for that to be called adultery or fornication.
Generally by this point the Mormon will start saying “But I know the church to be true”, and “God does not mean us to know all things… but I know it to be true”. Or many might disbelieve you, because this question is not widely spoken of.
Anyway, I suppose that Elohim’s other wives did not mind it, he would still come back to them.
But you know I think one of the best ways to answer this question, along with many others is simple to tell the Catholic truth. Talk about Mary being the immaculate conception, that her womb and she was sinless from conception, and it was into this body that the Son of god, God Himself was to spend 9 months of his mortal existence. Talk about the parallels with the Ark of the Covenant containing God’s holy Word.
Fo me it was the beauty of truth that compelled me more than the stupuidity and sacrilege of the Mormon error.
God bless,
Hal.
Interesting questiosn, but I would probably agree too many. To understand truthfully and openly any of them requires so considerable discussion.
Let me pick just one as a Mormon Bishop leaving the Mormon faith and heading into Catholicism.
LDS would say that whilst the union between God - Elohom - and Mary was physical just like normal sexual intercourse, there was a big difference in that Elohom is God. So Mary was still a virgin after the event because she did not have intercourse with a mortal man. The breaking of virginity only applies to when a human being does it. God is God and that is different.
Now Elohim did not commit adultery either in that he was God and only mortal man can have sex with a woman betrothed to another and for that to be called adultery or fornication.
Generally by this point the Mormon will start saying “But I know the church to be true”, and “God does not mean us to know all things… but I know it to be true”. Or many might disbelieve you, because this question is not widely spoken of.
Anyway, I suppose that Elohim’s other wives did not mind it, he would still come back to them.
But you know I think one of the best ways to answer this question, along with many others is simple to tell the Catholic truth. Talk about Mary being the immaculate conception, that her womb and she was sinless from conception, and it was into this body that the Son of god, God Himself was to spend 9 months of his mortal existence. Talk about the parallels with the Ark of the Covenant containing God’s holy Word.
Fo me it was the beauty of truth that compelled me more than the stupuidity and sacrilege of the Mormon error.
God bless,
Hal.
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Prince_Hal
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*]If Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God? (Doc. & Cov. 132:17,37)
I think that you misunderstand. Mormons do not have the same understanding of angels as Catholics do. An angel is simply a “messanger”. Moroni came to give a message and so was an angel.
However, when looking at scripture - the Bible and even Mormon scripture it is hard to justify this. Even in Mormonism they use the phrase “ministering angel”. This might be someone who reaches the Mormon celestial kingdom but is not married in the temple and so cannot reach complete Godhood. It doesn’t really hold water when you look into it in the light of scripture. Anyway in earlier accounts Joseph Smith called Moroni, Nephi. Sounds good that an angel would come and deliver the message of the restored gospel, just like Gabriel came to announce to Mary that she would bear the Son of God. It is nice PR and a dramatic touch.
God bless,
Hal.
I think that you misunderstand. Mormons do not have the same understanding of angels as Catholics do. An angel is simply a “messanger”. Moroni came to give a message and so was an angel.
However, when looking at scripture - the Bible and even Mormon scripture it is hard to justify this. Even in Mormonism they use the phrase “ministering angel”. This might be someone who reaches the Mormon celestial kingdom but is not married in the temple and so cannot reach complete Godhood. It doesn’t really hold water when you look into it in the light of scripture. Anyway in earlier accounts Joseph Smith called Moroni, Nephi. Sounds good that an angel would come and deliver the message of the restored gospel, just like Gabriel came to announce to Mary that she would bear the Son of God. It is nice PR and a dramatic touch.
God bless,
Hal.
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Prince_Hal
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*]**Since Mormonism teaches that only God the Father had a physical body at the time Adam was created, why did God say, “Let us make man in OUR image”? Why didn’t He say, “Let us make man in MY image?” (Gen. 1:26). **
Agreed. I understood that to become a God in Mormonism, you needed a body of flesh and bone. Christ and Michael (Adam) did not have flesh and bones at the time of the creation of the earth, so how could they be Gods? I have heard one explanation that says that Christ reached God status before he got a body because he was so righteous from the start.
I think this is a stumper for Mormons if they think about it. But remember we are not really dealing with rationality, logic and faith here (not real God centred faith). We are talking about emotion that is labelled by LDS as faith. But an emotion it is.
So, the answer will be “…but I know the church to be true”.
God bless,
Hal.
PS: Sorry if my answers are short and perhaps a little harsh. I mean no disrespect, but am short of time in answering, but I think it deserves and answer.
Agreed. I understood that to become a God in Mormonism, you needed a body of flesh and bone. Christ and Michael (Adam) did not have flesh and bones at the time of the creation of the earth, so how could they be Gods? I have heard one explanation that says that Christ reached God status before he got a body because he was so righteous from the start.
I think this is a stumper for Mormons if they think about it. But remember we are not really dealing with rationality, logic and faith here (not real God centred faith). We are talking about emotion that is labelled by LDS as faith. But an emotion it is.
So, the answer will be “…but I know the church to be true”.
God bless,
Hal.
PS: Sorry if my answers are short and perhaps a little harsh. I mean no disrespect, but am short of time in answering, but I think it deserves and answer.
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Brandon23
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Well if the LDS Church is true then i’ll be fine with it. But if it isn’t( which is where im leaning) then i wont blame them, everbody has a right to believe what they want and going to them and saying ha ha your wrong. Doesn’t seem like a christ like attitude.
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Brandon23
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PaulDupre
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Hi Brandon,
Please be aware that the missionaries are trained not to answer your questions honestly or directly. I know because I was a Mormon missionary myself. They are trained to tell you whatever will please you and get you to join. That’s all they care about - getting you baptized.
All of the Mormon prophets and apostles have always taught that the Heavenly Father had physical sexual intercourse with Mary in order to conceive Jesus. I will gladly post some quotes from the Mormon prophets and apostles if you would like. Or you can just google “Mormon God had sex with Mary” and you will get an eyeful.
God bless you,
Paul
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Prince_Hal
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You misunderstand. My apologies for not being clear. There are a number of ex-Mormons here, and I haven’t met one yet who wants to say “ha, ha you’re wrong”. I certainly do not.
Without trying to be prideful or arrogant, I am just trying to warn people of what they will find in Mormonism. Under all of the PR and the family emphasis, there are doctrines that are un-Christian. I left the Mormon religion spiritually (but am still trying to leave it physically - therein is another story). I genuinely feel raped by the religion - and I do not mean to offend anyoen by using that word - I know what it means.
I have stood in LDS temples and made promises to the god that they told me was the God of the Bible. I have stood dressed in Mormon temple robes and agreed to have my life taken if I were to reveal the temple ceremonies to others. I have stood and put my thumb under my left ear and drawn it across my throat to the right ear and agreed that my life would be taken by having my throat slit. I have made a similar gesture across my stomach while listening to the officiator in the temple explain that I submit my life by having my bowels slashed open to be eaten by the birds of the air, if I reveal the Mormon temple ceremonies. Now, in the late 80’s or early 90’s these actions were removed from the ceremony, but the people still agree to the “penalties” that are afixed for revealing the ceremonies. But, they are not told what those penalties are.
All I and others are trying to do, remembering your counsel about having a Christian attitude, is to warn people before it is too late, before they join and are embedded into the social culture of Mormonism that makes it hard to break free, before they accept and ingrain into themselves that Joseph Smith “has done more for the salvation of man than any other man who has ever lived - Christ excluded”, before they are indoctrinated that our Black brethren have a skin of black because they were less valiant in the pre-earth life, before they accept that polygamy is God’s order of marriage practiced by the few who could do it righteously in the 19th century.
It is a voice of warning. I could not care less which church I join. After Mormonism I only want to know God and His Truth. That was the attitude that I left with, and that is the attitude with which I approach Catholicism. It is a constant wonder to me that as I continue on this route, the Truth leads me to Catholicism - but so it does.
No “ha, ha you’re wrong” my friend. Just a plea from one who was so badly tricked, but who was dragged to safety by the most merciful God.
God bless,
Hal.
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Prince_Hal
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I agree with PaulDupre. Sometimes also the actual truth is hard to believe, and so missionaries will give a different story, perhaps one that they find acceptable and can live with. I spoke to the local missionaries 2 months back. I asked them how they would reply to someone that they were teaching if they questioned the “great and universal apostasy”. They replied that generally the people that they met were not versed enough in the Bible to be able to dispute them. If the person did dispute them, then they were obviously not yet ready to here the story of the restoration - the Mormon gospel.
Mormon missionary teaching focuses on getting an emotional response from the investigator, either about something warm and cosy, or indeed about something that is actually true (that God loves us all), and then labelling it the witness of the Holy Spirit, and then widening it to being a witness of everything that the missionaries are saying as being true.
An underneath lies beliefs such as Christ being created by the physical union of Elohim and Mary.
God bless,
Hal.
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zerinus
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I am a faithful, believing Mormon; and I can confirm to you that what the missionaries have told you is true. It is not a doctrine of the LDS Church that God and Mary had physical intercourse. Those who tell you to the contrary here are apostates from Mormonism; and apostates are not to be trusted about any religion, be they from Mormonism or Catholicism. If you want to learn the truth about Mormonism, learn it from Mormons, not from apostates from Mormonism.
zerinus
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justinthemartyr
Guest
i was told by three sets of mormons missionaries, reluctantly, that this is what they believed, that mary and God the Father had physical intercourse. I do not find anything supporting this belief in scripture or church history.
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