A few questions for Muslims

[schaick]

Why did allah deceive people into believing that Jesus was crucified?

To what end did allah cause Jesus’ mother Mary to believe Jesus died on the cross? Imagine her grieve. Why would allah put her through this?

Why the deceiving plan that Jesus was replaced or didn’t die?

Was the man who died in place of Jesus guilty of a crime? Who was it?

Why would allah cause what you believe to be a false religion [Christianity] to grow by faking Jesus’ death on the cross?

Did allah not know that because of all the eyewitnesses to the crucifixion that Christianity would grow to what it is today? Especially when compared to Mohammad who had no witnesses that an “angel” revealed anything to him.

Why allow people who saw Jesus die and placed in the tomb, to see Jesus walking around afterwards showing HIS wounds?

 

[AveChriste11]

The Gnostic heretic Basilidies was the first to think of this belief, that instead of Jesus… it was supposed to be Simon the Cyrenian who was put in his place.

Also, remember that a lot of Muslims have never read the Bible… they only listen to what they hear Christians believe. Sometimes their “teachers” will take the beliefs of Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses, and somehow claim that this is what we all believe…

 

[thirddec]

All I will say at this point is that unless God made an exact likeness of Christ to be crucified in his stead ; how would all of the jewish high priests and persons who knew him intimately and im sure many of the romans knew him too as he would appear to have been something of a celebrity, HOW WOULD THEY ALL BE FOOLED. Or maybe all Jews look the same ( I DONT THINK SOOO! ).

So if they want to believe God created this deception they need to ask why God and Jesus becomes a liar and deciever. Because Christ himself told of his impending death.

To be honest if you read what the verse says in the Quran it doesn’t actually say he wasn’t crucified but the muslims interpret it this way.

Another way of interpeting it ( which also ties into other verses they have ) along the lines that no man has control of death but God.

And also it reads more like the Jews really hadn’t a clue about what had just happened ; whether they had killed him or not as 3 days later the rumours were around that he was alive again just as he had prophesied. They even set a Guard up to prevent anyone interfering with the body in the Burial grotto.

Also we believe to that the Jews didn’t Crucify Christ, he let them and he could have stopped it at any time if he wanted but rather he had complete control over his life and death ( not the Jews ) as he displays by giving up His Spirit when he chose and ressurecting again. The Jews had tried to kill him before but he escaped as he wanted ; so they should read the verses again and learn to interpret them properly.

I believe that the quran my be inspired by the devil and he cannot deny the crucifixion and resurection of Christ so instead he tries to hide it within a misleading verse of truth. All best lies are sown within truths.

 

[schaick]

All I will say at this point is that unless God made an exact likeness of Christ to be crucified in his stead ; how would all of the jewish high priests and persons who knew him intimately and im sure many of the romans knew him too as he would appear to have been something of a celebrity, HOW WOULD THEY ALL BE FOOLED. Or maybe all Jews look the same ( I DONT THINK SOOO! ).

So if they want to believe God created this deception they need to ask why God and Jesus becomes a liar and deciever. Because Christ himself told of his impending death.

To be honest if you read what the verse says in the Quran it doesn’t actually say he wasn’t crucified but the muslims interpret it this way.

Another way of interpeting it ( which also ties into other verses they have ) along the lines that no man has control of death but God.

And also it reads more like the Jews really hadn’t a clue about what had just happened ; whether they had killed him or not as 3 days later the rumours were around that he was alive again just as he had prophesied. They even set a Guard up to prevent anyone interfering with the body in the Burial grotto.

Also we believe to that the Jews didn’t Crucify Christ, he let them and he could have stopped it at any time if he wanted but rather he had complete control over his life and death ( not the Jews ) as he displays by giving up His Spirit when he chose and ressurecting again. The Jews had tried to kill him before but he escaped as he wanted ; so they should read the verses again and learn to interpret them properly.

I believe that the quran my be inspired by the devil and he cannot deny the crucifixion and resurection of Christ so instead he tries to hide it within a misleading verse of truth. All best lies are sown within truths.

WHY?!? WHY would allah do such a thing? Makes no sense!!

Yes, there is only one being that would want to deny the crucifixion…

I will go you one further - it is me and you, all the sinners of the world that crucified Jesus.

 

[schaick]

No muslim answers?

 

[schaick]

I have.

It doesn’t matter what terms you use Allah planned, fooled, deceived, tricked a large portion of the world’s population to follow Jesus because of HIS resurrection from the tomb.

WHY? To what end, what purpose do these people allah supposedly misled have?

Not to get off topic: Why did allah lead people astray for 600 years, but then validate the Bible, the Gospel and Torah?

 

[rikkk1958]

There are many theories on how Muhammed was able to convince many people during his time, Try to refer on the of Muhammed from different sites. My own theory is by way of logic from the beginning of his wandering life in the desert and around the Arabian Peninsula. His life with the caravans of merchants and curiosity on the teachings of Jewish and Christian who traveled with him. His illiteracy also contributed to his knowledge of the Bible stories.

His ascension for leadership began when he realized the occupation of his land by many invaders. He did not become an instant sensational leader at first and struggled to influence more followers. He had to teach what he learned from the Bible to pagans that gave him confidence to tell his stories more to them. Unable to read, he relied on memories of the teachings from the Bible, and with some folk lores that associated with stories from elders his stories of the Bible were twisted. Example of this is his story of the Virgin birth and passages from apocrypal books.

 

[thirddec]

You should try to get any serious discussion going on a muslim forum that chalenges their views lol been there done that ; got kicked off fast when My questions got awkward and believe me I tried to play fair ; I was not disrespectfull but you will find that to raise any real serious objection to Mohammed even using their own texts is disrespectfull .
Still I learned a lot about the trinity as that was all they wanted to talk to christians about.

As far as their being no muslims in this group; dont be fooled by the religion tags; i have see some of the same preamble questions in said muslim forum.

By the way there were some excellent christian scholars working in the forums

Yes the Question was loaded but when I was posting in the Muslim forum I stood up for my faith as best I could and did not dodge loaded Questions and thankfully neither did the Christian contributers.

LET ME BE CLEAR I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST MUSLIMS I JUST DON’T BELIEVE WE CAN STAND BY AND ALLOW THEM FREE ACCESS TO CHALLENGE OUR FAITH AND WE DONT RETURN THE KINDNESS.

also i feel it is important that we start to educate as many catholics as possible on dealing with the Muslim attacks. If we cant do it in a Catholic forum where can we.

 

[thirddec]

there is no proof he was illiterate; in the Quran he clearly shows he can write. More probably he couldn’t be bothered.

Also his uncle was a scribe by profession I believe so why wasn’t he taught also when he was with his uncle. He married a rich woman and had plenty of access to education

I would like to see academic proof of his illiteracy as opposed to an attempt to try and fill a biblical vague prophesy of an illiterate prophet.

 

[schaick]

You should try to get any serious discussion going on a muslim forum that chalenges their views lol been there done that ; got kicked off fast when My questions got awkward and believe me I tried to play fair ; I was not disrespectfull but you will find that to raise any real serious objection to Mohammed even using their own texts is disrespectfull .
Still I learned a lot about the trinity as that was all they wanted to talk to christians about.

As far as their being no muslims in this group; dont be fooled by the religion tags; i have see some of the same preamble questions in said muslim forum.

By the way there were some excellent christian scholars working in the forums

Yes the Question was loaded but when I was posting in the Muslim forum I stood up for my faith as best I could and did not dodge loaded Questions and thankfully neither did the Christian contributers.

LET ME BE CLEAR I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST MUSLIMS I JUST DON’T BELIEVE WE CAN STAND BY AND ALLOW THEM FREE ACCESS TO CHALLENGE OUR FAITH AND WE DONT RETURN THE KINDNESS.

also i feel it is important that we start to educate as many catholics as possible on dealing with the Muslim attacks. If we cant do it in a Catholic forum where can we.

I have one success story from talkiing to Muslims on muslim forums, that I know of. lol! I was immediate banned.

Think about the lurkers- those that are questioning Islam too afraid for their lives to participate. Islam makes no sense when it says Jesus was not crucified.

Yes absolutely educating our fellow** Christians **is very important- many still do not know what Islam says about the crucifixion of Jesus.

It was deceitful of an all knowing allah to cause Christianity to begin by tricking people into thinking Jesus was crucified then ressurrected, if in fact allah covered up the truth of who was being crucified. Did allah not know that Christianity would start? Did allah not realize that later he would be asking that Christians be subdued or killed for him?

*Why did allah deceive people into believing that Jesus was crucified? *

To what end did allah cause Jesus’ mother Mary to believe Jesus died on the cross? Imagine her grieve. Why would allah put her through this?

Why the deceiving plan that Jesus was replaced or didn’t die?

Was the man who died in place of Jesus guilty of a crime? Who was it?

Why would allah cause what you believe to be a false religion [Christianity] to grow by faking Jesus’ death on the cross?

Did allah not know that because of all the eyewitnesses to the crucifixion that Christianity would grow to what it is today? Especially when compared to Mohammad who had no witnesses that an “angel” revealed anything to him.

Why allow people who saw Jesus die and placed in the tomb, to see Jesus walking around afterwards showing HIS wounds?

 

[AveChriste11]

there is no proof he was illiterate; in the Quran he clearly shows he can write. More probably he couldn’t be bothered.

Also his uncle was a scribe by profession I believe so why wasn’t he taught also when he was with his uncle. He married a rich woman and had plenty of access to education

I would like to see academic proof of his illiteracy as opposed to an attempt to try and fill a biblical vague prophesy of an illiterate prophet.

What do you mean there was no proof he was illiterate? He didn’t write the Qur’an himself, but there were plenty of men who committed different parts of it to memory. They all got together, and compiled it later on… and then one of the caliphs Uthman helped preserve it after other copies got harmed.

 

[LtTony]

Why did allah deceive people into believing that Jesus was crucified?

To what end did allah cause Jesus’ mother Mary to believe Jesus died on the cross? Imagine her grieve. Why would allah put her through this?

Why the deceiving plan that Jesus was replaced or didn’t die?

Was the man who died in place of Jesus guilty of a crime? Who was it?

Why would allah cause what you believe to be a false religion [Christianity] to grow by faking Jesus’ death on the cross?

Did allah not know that because of all the eyewitnesses to the crucifixion that Christianity would grow to what it is today? Especially when compared to Mohammad who had no witnesses that an “angel” revealed anything to him.

Why allow people who saw Jesus die and placed in the tomb, to see Jesus walking around afterwards showing HIS wounds?

No muslim answers?

Of course there are no muslim answers. Your question – which has been asked before – illustrates a fundamental weakness in Islam, which claims to so so “logical for all times.”

Search this forum, islamfactor.org and whyislam using my user name and “crucifixion” and you’ll get your answer. Near as I can tell here is the basic two-part answer: 1. “They killed him not” is sufficient; muslims don’t need any more information, although they are free to speculate on how the feat was accomplished.
2. Muslims see the nature and one-ness of God as a much, much bigger issue than the crucifixion.

Yeah, I know: they’re dodging the issue. But that is the reply I’ve received. And as I’ve pointed out on this forum, since mohammad was unable to explain the death and resurrection of Our Lord away, he was wise to simply ignore the issue.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Where does the name ALLAH come form? Its not used in Hebrew or Aramaic. On the Cross and in Matthew verse 47 Jesus Christ spoke the native name of God.

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

27:47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias. Jesus was calling to Elias, or Elijah, whose name means, Eli-Jah, or "My God, Yaweh.

So the name would be EL which btw was also found inscribed in the slave caves in Egypt which date to the Exodus. Which are the oldest dated inscriptions found which have the word GOD in them and directly relates to Bible OT also. and it reads “EL save us”.

I know Allah comes by way of Mohammad, and by way the manscripts of St Paul re-translated by the Nestorian Bishop.

Of course a similiar name to Allah would have been known at the Tower of Babel? But Christ didn’t accept this.

Am I missing something?

Elohim is used 2,500 times on the OT which of course connects to the word el or eloah which is the name Christ is using in the New Testament. My hebrew translation may be wrong but it would mean * ‘to be strong’, or ‘to be in front.’

Elohim is the earliest name of God in the Old Testament and persists along with other names until the latest period. Elohim is the third word in the Hebrew text of Genesis and occurs frequently throughout the Hebrew Bible.

Nonetheless

Allah in the Aramaic or the Peshitta. Do have versions of texts today since the metropolitans and bishops of the Syrian Church have an interpretation of the Word of God, but is this from after the Apostolic era as claimed? Is it corrupted? Wouldn’t this relate back to the Nestorian heresy?

God Bless, Gary*

 

[elwill]

Why did allah deceive people into believing that Jesus was crucified?

when you need to protect someone from death , you will need decieving plan for that , this plan was to dsecieve the people who tried to kill jesus (pbuh) only
the plan wasn’t to decieve the followers of jesus themselfs , whatever through the time the people differed about jesus and his death and the pure truth which apostles knows was lost

To what end did allah cause Jesus’ mother Mary to believe Jesus died on the cross? Imagine her grieve. Why would allah put her through this?

i think that whether he was curcified in reality or not , in both senarios she was put through the same grieve , the question returned to you

but as for you asking about muslims point of view , i think that mary knew that he didn’t died on the cross

Why the deceiving plan that Jesus was replaced or didn’t die?

From our view it’s not deceiving plan , it’s the truth which happened
Or you wanna to ask why allah in our view protect jesus from death on the cross ?
I think you need to rephrase your question
.

Was the man who died in place of Jesus guilty of a crime? Who was it?

we don’t know any details in our islamic source , what we know is that he wasn’t put on the cross

Why would allah cause what you believe to be a false religion [Christianity] to grow by faking Jesus’ death on the cross?

and why would God cause what you believe to be a false relegion (islam) to grow by faking Mohammad’s prophethood either ? these questions have no sense

you know that the bible was later canonized by Constantine around year 325. But before that, many sects of Christianity and many Bibles or Canons existed , and most of them (the early christians) have believed that jesus didn’t die on the cross

Did allah not know that because of all the eyewitnesses to the crucifixion that Christianity would grow to what it is today? Especially when compared to Mohammad who had no witnesses that an “angel” revealed anything to him.

let us not talking about what God knows , me and you can agree that God knows the all truth
let us talking about what we knows and the facts we have about so called "eyewitness
and the criteria of accepting it

Why allow people who saw Jesus die and placed in the tomb, to see Jesus walking around afterwards showing HIS wounds?

did he showed them his wounds

 

[elwill]

Near as I can tell here is the basic two-part answer: 1. “They killed him not” is sufficient; muslims don’t need any more information, although they are free to speculate on how the feat was accomplished.
2. Muslims see the nature and one-ness of God as a much, much bigger issue than the crucifixion.

that’s correct

Yeah, I know: they’re dodging the issue. But that is the reply I’ve received. And as I’ve pointed out on this forum, since mohammad was unable to explain the death and resurrection of Our Lord away, he was wise to simply ignore the issue.

i don’t know if mohammed was ever asked about thing and he was unable to explain it

 

[tortdog]

agreed

 

[flyonthewall]

Where does the name ALLAH come form? Its not used in Hebrew or Aramaic. On the Cross and in Matthew verse 47 Jesus Christ spoke the native name of God.

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

27:47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias. Jesus was calling to Elias, or Elijah, whose name means, Eli-Jah, or "My God, Yaweh.

So the name would be EL which btw was also found inscribed in the slave caves in Egypt which date to the Exodus. Which are the oldest dated inscriptions found which have the word GOD in them and directly relates to Bible OT also. and it reads “EL save us”.

I know Allah comes by way of Mohammad, and by way the manscripts of St Paul re-translated by the Nestorian Bishop.

Of course a similiar name to Allah would have been known at the Tower of Babel? But Christ didn’t accept this.

Am I missing something?

Elohim is used 2,500 times on the OT which of course connects to the word el or eloah which is the name Christ is using in the New Testament. My hebrew translation may be wrong but it would mean * ‘to be strong’, or ‘to be in front.’

Elohim is the earliest name of God in the Old Testament and persists along with other names until the latest period. Elohim is the third word in the Hebrew text of Genesis and occurs frequently throughout the Hebrew Bible.

Nonetheless

Allah in the Aramaic or the Peshitta. Do have versions of texts today since the metropolitans and bishops of the Syrian Church have an interpretation of the Word of God, but is this from after the Apostolic era as claimed? Is it corrupted? Wouldn’t this relate back to the Nestorian heresy?

God Bless, Gary*
The same as Allah is found no where in the Bible, “God” is found nowhere in the Bible either. “God” is an English word, not Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek.
Why do English speakers use the word “God”? Becuase that is the word in english that translates to El/Eli/Elyon/Elohim. In Spanish it is Dios, in Japanese it is Kami-sama, in Arabic it is Allah.

 

[elwill]

i read about these stuff many times ago , and i saw decumentry film called " banned from the bible" which takling about beliefs of early christians in first and second century

what do you think about so called gnostic Christians and their beliefs about resurrection , did they had the same beliefs you have about it?

Yes, on numerous occasions and invited one disciple to examine them closely who doubted his ressurection. Which is where the colloquial term ‘doubting Thomas’ comes from.

if you interrested to discuss them then cite what the bible said exactly

 

[tortdog]

did he showed them his wounds

You also have the testimony of thousands in America who claimed to have seen the resurrected Christ and felt the wounds in his hands, as written in the Book of Mormon:

Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record, that it was he, of whom it was written by the prophets, that should come.

 

[AveChriste11]

Banned from the Bible can be quite amusing at times, although slightly interesting. When Constantine asked for the Fathers of the Church to gather for a council, so that the entire Church may be of one mind over the (then recent) heretical ideas of Arius; the Bible was not discussed.

What did the Council of Nicea do? It formed the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, it
(1) banned castration among clergy;
(2) banned ordination of those recently converted,
(3) banned clergy from living with women, to avoid suspicion of immorality
(4) talked about the requirements to be ordained bishop
(5) asked that councils be held twice annually, to examine the appeals of those excommunicated
(6) it endorsed supervisory roles of Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria
(7)affirmed the honored status of the Bishop of Jerusalem
(8)provisions for the re-admission of the Novatianists
(9)removed priests who were improperly examined before ordination
(10)removed clergy who had fallen away during persecution.
(11) detailed the re-admission of those who had fallen away during persecution
(12) detailed the process of re-admission to the Church for those who had returned to the military after leaving it to become Christians.
(13) allowed early communion for those who are dying
(14) detailed the process of re-admission to the church for those who were catechumens when they fell away
(15) forbade transient clergy (16) forbade bishops from receiving transient clergy
(17) forbade clergy from charging interests on loans,
(18) forbade deacons from administering the eucharist to priests and bishops
(19) detailed the process of re-admission for those who followed the heresy of Paul of Samosata
and finally
(20) forbade kneeling during prayer on Sundays and Pentecost, ordered standing instead